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3 things that are noticeable about black people in America. * They weren't really allowed viable property access until the last 50 years or so. 100's of years

3 things that are noticeable about black people in America. * They weren't really allowed viable property access until the last 50 years or so. 100's of years of catch up to make up for. * Accumulating disadvantage of fatherless and motherless households. * The blast radius of municipal violations disproportionately afflicts black people in the USA. Not saying I like these things, but they're core problems.

kortilla 7y ago
> They weren't really allowed viable property access until the last 50 years or so. 100's of years of catch up to make up for. You don’t need property ownership to have a decent upbringing. It does mean there isn’t a lot of generational wealth to go around, but that’s no longer specific to being black because it applies to huge swaths of the population.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Yes, but if you're comparing black performance to the performance of other races - you can't leave wealth accumulation out of the picture. Sure, there are plenty of poor people who are white, but when you are looking at aggregate statistics, the gap is extremely clear. In my city, Boston, the average household wealth of a white family (excluding the value of the home) is $200,000. The average household wealth of a black family is $5. (and no, I didn't forget to put a thousand after the 5)
  - api 7y ago
    I wonder how much of that is the legacy of redlining given that home ownership is the major vehicle for long term middle class wealth accumulation. (House as financial instrument is itself a problem, but that's another matter.)
    - MiroF 7y ago
      Yes, except this study explicitly excluded the value of the house as an asset. I think the legacy of jim crow, continued racism, and slavery have just as much to do with it. Redlining is also not over - a recent study found that when undercover black and white people went to the same realtor, 50% of the time the black buyers were given worse options or refused service.
  - banads 7y ago
    >In my city, Boston, the average household wealth of a white family (excluding the value of the home) is $200,000. The average household wealth of a black family is $5. (and no, I didn't forget to put a thousand after the 5) Do you have a source for that? Seems like you may be referring to this study[1] which only had a sample size of 78 white households and 71 black households. In that sample, the median net worth disparity was $247,500 to $8. I was not able to find how they picked their sample set. [1]https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/one-time-pubs/color-of-wealth.aspx https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/one-time-pubs/color-o...
    - MiroF 7y ago
      You're correct - I misremembered the exact numbers. Median is an average. The Federal Reserve Bank of Boston was my source for this. Despite your usage of the qualifier "only" to describe the sample sizes, that is more than sufficient to draw statistically significant conclusions about the racial gap in wealth in Boston. Finally, here's the description of how the samples were selected: > Various sampling techniques were used to locate and identify an ethnically plural sample consisting of the specifically defined ethnic groups. The techniques included the following: directory-listed landline samples targeted to census tracts where groups were known to reside; cell phone random digit dialing samples drawn from rate centers that covered the targeted ethnic group ZIP codes; samples drawn from targeted ZIP codes on the basis of billing address; and the use of surname-based lists targeting specific national origin groups.
      - banads 7y ago
        Obviously there is a considerable wealth gap among different demographics. But if you compare a poor black neighborhood with a poor white trailer park, there won't be much of a difference. If you compare that poor neighborhood or trailer park with a rich white gated community, you're not really saying much that isn't already known. How do we know the people who conducted the study didn't purposefully do the latter?
        MiroF 7y ago
        Because the Fed is a reputable organization and described their methodology above? Not really going to keep replying to this thread, but I think it's much more likely that the Fed is accurately reporting the reality of an extreme racial wealth gap, as opposed to the Federal Reserve Bank doctoring results to fake those wealth gaps.
  - bitcurious 7y ago
    The study doesn't exclude the value of the home. In fact, most of the net worth disparity is attributable to home ownership. Total Assets: White: $256,500 | U.S. Black: $700 Liquid Assets: White: $25,000 | U.S. Black: $670 Net Worth: White: $247,500 | U.S. Black: $8 Some definitions: >Liquid assets, which can quickly be converted into cash, include money 18 in savings and checking accounts, stocks, money market, and government bonds. >We totaled the value of all assets held by each racial group, including the value of all liquid assets, financial assets, retirement, home and vehicle equity, and the values of all other assets (these include life insurance policies and valuables such as jewelry) >Net worth (or wealth), the sum of the value of total assets minus the value of debts, provides a snapshot of household financial well-being. From this PDF: https://www.bostonfed.org/-/media/Documents/color-of-wealth/color-of-wealth.pdf https://www.bostonfed.org/-/media/Documents/color-of-wealth/...
fallous 7y ago
I'm unsure what you mean by "viable property access," but blacks owned some 14% of farms in the US and around 15M acres of land (not all agricultural) around the turn of the 20th century. Sadly that has shrunk to around 8M acres today. There is no doubt that the accumulating disadvantages of single parent households (or worse) have had a terrible and disproportionate impact on blacks in the US. Unfortunately that is a much more recent phenomenon give that prior to 1960 the percentage of black children born to unwed mothers was sub-20% but now exceeds 70%. Current rates for white children are around 30% and only Asian children still enjoy a sub-20% unwed mother birthrate. I'm not clear what "municipal violations" are in this context but certainly would appreciate further clarification especially as they pertain to the black community.
- bsanr2 7y ago
  > blacks owned some 14% of farms in the US and around 15M acres of land (not all agricultural) around the turn of the 20th century. Sadly that has shrunk to around 8M acres today. This was not an accident. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/this-land-was-our-land/594742/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/this-la... https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/losing-ground/ https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/losing-ground/
- gdudeman 7y ago
  If you’d like to learn more about the racism black farmers endure today, the 1619 podcast had a good story called the land of our fathers. Farmers live and die by credit and bankers and banks can be racist. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/podcasts/1619-slavery-sugar-farm-land.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/podcasts/1619-slavery-sug...

kortilla 7y ago

> They weren't really allowed viable property access until the last 50 years or so. 100's of years of catch up to make up for. You don’t need property ownership to have a decent upbringing. It does mean there isn’t a lot of generational wealth to go around, but that’s no longer specific to being black because it applies to huge swaths of the population.

MiroF 7y ago
Yes, but if you're comparing black performance to the performance of other races - you can't leave wealth accumulation out of the picture. Sure, there are plenty of poor people who are white, but when you are looking at aggregate statistics, the gap is extremely clear. In my city, Boston, the average household wealth of a white family (excluding the value of the home) is $200,000. The average household wealth of a black family is $5. (and no, I didn't forget to put a thousand after the 5)
- api 7y ago
  I wonder how much of that is the legacy of redlining given that home ownership is the major vehicle for long term middle class wealth accumulation. (House as financial instrument is itself a problem, but that's another matter.)
  - MiroF 7y ago
    Yes, except this study explicitly excluded the value of the house as an asset. I think the legacy of jim crow, continued racism, and slavery have just as much to do with it. Redlining is also not over - a recent study found that when undercover black and white people went to the same realtor, 50% of the time the black buyers were given worse options or refused service.
- banads 7y ago
  >In my city, Boston, the average household wealth of a white family (excluding the value of the home) is $200,000. The average household wealth of a black family is $5. (and no, I didn't forget to put a thousand after the 5) Do you have a source for that? Seems like you may be referring to this study[1] which only had a sample size of 78 white households and 71 black households. In that sample, the median net worth disparity was $247,500 to $8. I was not able to find how they picked their sample set. [1]https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/one-time-pubs/color-of-wealth.aspx https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/one-time-pubs/color-o...
  - MiroF 7y ago
    You're correct - I misremembered the exact numbers. Median is an average. The Federal Reserve Bank of Boston was my source for this. Despite your usage of the qualifier "only" to describe the sample sizes, that is more than sufficient to draw statistically significant conclusions about the racial gap in wealth in Boston. Finally, here's the description of how the samples were selected: > Various sampling techniques were used to locate and identify an ethnically plural sample consisting of the specifically defined ethnic groups. The techniques included the following: directory-listed landline samples targeted to census tracts where groups were known to reside; cell phone random digit dialing samples drawn from rate centers that covered the targeted ethnic group ZIP codes; samples drawn from targeted ZIP codes on the basis of billing address; and the use of surname-based lists targeting specific national origin groups.
    - banads 7y ago
      Obviously there is a considerable wealth gap among different demographics. But if you compare a poor black neighborhood with a poor white trailer park, there won't be much of a difference. If you compare that poor neighborhood or trailer park with a rich white gated community, you're not really saying much that isn't already known. How do we know the people who conducted the study didn't purposefully do the latter?
      - MiroF 7y ago
        Because the Fed is a reputable organization and described their methodology above? Not really going to keep replying to this thread, but I think it's much more likely that the Fed is accurately reporting the reality of an extreme racial wealth gap, as opposed to the Federal Reserve Bank doctoring results to fake those wealth gaps.
- bitcurious 7y ago
  The study doesn't exclude the value of the home. In fact, most of the net worth disparity is attributable to home ownership. Total Assets: White: $256,500 | U.S. Black: $700 Liquid Assets: White: $25,000 | U.S. Black: $670 Net Worth: White: $247,500 | U.S. Black: $8 Some definitions: >Liquid assets, which can quickly be converted into cash, include money 18 in savings and checking accounts, stocks, money market, and government bonds. >We totaled the value of all assets held by each racial group, including the value of all liquid assets, financial assets, retirement, home and vehicle equity, and the values of all other assets (these include life insurance policies and valuables such as jewelry) >Net worth (or wealth), the sum of the value of total assets minus the value of debts, provides a snapshot of household financial well-being. From this PDF: https://www.bostonfed.org/-/media/Documents/color-of-wealth/color-of-wealth.pdf https://www.bostonfed.org/-/media/Documents/color-of-wealth/...

fallous 7y ago

I'm unsure what you mean by "viable property access," but blacks owned some 14% of farms in the US and around 15M acres of land (not all agricultural) around the turn of the 20th century. Sadly that has shrunk to around 8M acres today. There is no doubt that the accumulating disadvantages of single parent households (or worse) have had a terrible and disproportionate impact on blacks in the US. Unfortunately that is a much more recent phenomenon give that prior to 1960 the percentage of black children born to unwed mothers was sub-20% but now exceeds 70%. Current rates for white children are around 30% and only Asian children still enjoy a sub-20% unwed mother birthrate. I'm not clear what "municipal violations" are in this context but certainly would appreciate further clarification especially as they pertain to the black community.

bsanr2 7y ago
> blacks owned some 14% of farms in the US and around 15M acres of land (not all agricultural) around the turn of the 20th century. Sadly that has shrunk to around 8M acres today. This was not an accident. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/this-land-was-our-land/594742/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/this-la... https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/losing-ground/ https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/losing-ground/
gdudeman 7y ago
If you’d like to learn more about the racism black farmers endure today, the 1619 podcast had a good story called the land of our fathers. Farmers live and die by credit and bankers and banks can be racist. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/podcasts/1619-slavery-sugar-farm-land.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/podcasts/1619-slavery-sug...