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How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)
- ossworkerrights 7y agoCurious how world politics will change once electric vehicles become mainstream and there is little need for oil.
- asplake 7y ago... and we’re dependent instead on rare earth elements and the like
- ossworkerrights 7y agoIndeed, one step at a time tho.
- ianai 7y agoI wish society required manufacturers to provide reclamation of the resources used in their discarded products. Ie when I’m done with my car battery the lithium is reclaimed from it for future use by someone with all the info and resources necessary to do it efficiently. Make the regulation such that recycling is factored into the design process.
- jessaustin 7y agoThe people of Bolivia have recently learned this to their great misfortune. The USA government hasn't even been shy about its support for that coup against a democratically elected leader who lifted so many out of poverty. The regime who took over celebrated the fact that they are white Christians and not brown natives.
- Niten 7y ago"Democratically elected" is a really odd way to say "defied a referendum on term limits and rigged an election".
- jessaustin 7y agoEven if that were true (it's not!), the coup plotters evicted him by threatening his sister's life, before his new term started.
- perennate 7y agoThe USA issued statements supporting the ousting of Morales. That was the extent of USA's involvement. That does not really make it a "USA backed coup". Unless you believe it just because that's what Morales claimed.
- jessaustin 7y agoWe might strongly suspect it, based only on the fact that CIA has done this in dozens of nations since the episode described in TFA. Or, you know, we could just pay any attention at all to actual journalism [0]. [0] https://thegrayzone.com/2019/11/13/bolivian-coup-plotters-school-of-the-americas-fbi-police-programs/ https://thegrayzone.com/2019/11/13/bolivian-coup-plotters-sc...
- ianai 7y agoOne hope is for more stability. But I can imagine a duality where countries developed enough for EVs will decouple somewhat from countries developing on oil. This assumes oil remains vastly cheaper for under developed regions.
- fulafel 7y agoJust about all applications of oil and natural gas have similar features as their use in the transportation sector: other energy sources could be used, but they are more expensive. There are no circumstances in sight that would make oil/gas extraction uneconomical, especially in light of the rise of demand from developing countries. So we'll have to arrange for the oil extraction reductions using international agreements.
- elfexec 7y agoIt's not about oil necessarily. It's about energy source or more generally - a valuable resource. If lithium batteries become the new "oil", then lithium rich countries will become targets and oil countries will be ignored. But I think oil will be valuable for many decades to come. Oil use is projected to increase worldwide by every regulatory body. As long as oil is valuable, we'll fight over it. If lithium becomes valuable, we'll fight over it. Times change, but sadly people remain the same. Especially the greedy elite.
- yorwba 7y ago> If lithium batteries become the new "oil", then lithium rich countries will become targets Like Afghanistan, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Afghanistan#Lithium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Afghanistan#Lithium
- mensetmanusman 7y agoIf lithium reaches a certain price point, then it will just be extracted from ocean water.
- ossworkerrights 7y agoI suppose asteroid mining would be a next step.
- jeroenhd 7y agoWe'll still be dependent on materials like plastic. Entire categories of good production, like corn processing, depend on using parts of processed oil. Ships burn oil and they're not going to switch to electric any time soon. Our oil dependency isn't just about the cars we drive.
- mmrezaie 7y agoI think we are not that dependant on oil right now either and we are just used to continue the same failed tactics if the past. The people who make these decisions are just not making them economically and they are just used to continue the same policies.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bhouston 7y agoIran is in Israel's and Saudi Arabia's cross hairs. It is my feeling that the US is mostly antagonistic to Iran because of the influence of these two regional rivals of Iran.
- baybal2 7y ago> Mossadegh thought he was in the clear, but Roosevelt hadn't given up. He orchestrated a second coup, which succeeded. Mossadegh was placed on trial and spent his life under house arrest. Never become complacent.
- thdrdt 7y agoMost western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. Well this article again shows that there are few countries that will not gain power over dead people. It's sad but true. Now imagine you were living in Iran and came to know about the work of the CIA. Whould you think the USA is the greatest country in the world and democracy is the way to go? I think it would be best if we look at people in other countries without judgement and try to understand their point of view. Leaders are to blame but most of the people in this world are just living their life.
- trevyn 7y agoCan we have a new site rule to not allow straw men?
- thdrdt 7y agoWell what else can we make of this? The only way forward is to stop judging people and come closer so we can start to understand each other.
- ianai 7y agoArguments that start on false premises can lead anywhere and appear valid. It’s logically not constructive. I’m thinking of the logic table for the implication.
- Dinux 7y agoAnd even nowadays that resentment against Great Britain from Iran is very much still alive, while we hear mostly about the US getting involved in these regions
- EliRivers 7y agoFor those interested, Jack Straw (former UK Foreign Secretary) wrote a book, "The English Job", about the history of the UK and Iran (but of course touching on a lot more) is very readable. Having been published in 2019, it's also pretty up-to-date. There is apparently a joke amongst diplomats that 'Iran is the only country in the world which still regards the United Kingdom as a superpower'. There is a phrase in Iran, which translates as something like "It's always an English job", applied to something that has been botched and mishandled. I'd definitely say that for the layman, if you want to understand the relationship twixt the West and Iran (which is so much more than just the US and Iran) this book has a place on your reading list.
- selimthegrim 7y ago'Uncle Napoleon' might be helpful too
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- tus88 7y ago...in the middle of the cold war.
- idoubtit 7y agoAnd as soon as the cold war ended, in 1989, the USA invaded Panama to put their own man as president. In the process, the USA killed more than 3000 civilians. The man who ordered the invasion was George H W Bush, a former director of the CIA. And if you're looking for more recent cases, the USA supported the military coup in Egypt in 2013. The government even refused to call it a coup because of legal implications. This was an important blow to democracy in the region. The authoritarian evolution in Turkey is partly due to this. I'm not saying other democracies are better than the USA. I'm French, and my country still cannot face its past in Algeria. And France still supports dictators, like a 2018 bombing in Chad recently proved. But over the last couple of decades, I don't think any country killed more foreign civilians than the USA did, by a large margin. Even Saudi Arabia and UAE, with their wars in Yemen and Lybia, can't compare.
- sudoaza 7y agoAs recently as last year a USA backed coup removed the president elected by more than 50% in Bolivia because they nationalized gas and were exploiting lithium themselves.
- Niten 7y agoNo. Evo Morales is a would-be dictator who ignored term limits and rigged an election to stay in power. He was forced out of power because the Bolivian army refused to kill Bolivian people to suppress protests against him. The facts to counter the propaganda: - https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/11/16/was-there-a-coup-in-bolivia https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/11/16/was-there-a-cou... - https://www.oas.org/en/media_center/press_release.asp?sCodigo=E-109/19 https://www.oas.org/en/media_center/press_release.asp?sCodig...
- sudoaza 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- tlear 7y agoPlease if you are interested in this read more. This article is just garbage. Start with wiki it is actually surprisingly good. “The official pretext for the start of the coup was Mosaddegh's decree to dissolve Parliament, giving himself and his cabinet complete power to rule, while effectively stripping the Shah of his powers.[13][14][15]” Say Boris Johnson dissolves parliament takes all of the power into his own hands and his ministers. Queen tries to relieve him(coup!!!!) has to run away to France :o He then starts imprisoning anyone who has a problem with that. I also like the legend about CIA managing to bribe a bunch of communists party members to burn down part of Tehran trying to start revolution, at the same time they were bribing: media, army, other counter protestors, security, religious leaders. Just how many agents did they have running this masterclass operation? Nobody in in Tehran clearly had any will of their own.
- oefrha 7y agoInterestingly enough your surprisingly good starting point (I can't tell since Wikipedia political articles are often heavily biased, so if I trust this one as impartial I'd be suffering from Gell-Man amnesia again) has this to say: > The Shah himself initially opposed the coup plans, and supported the oil nationalization, but he joined after being informed by the CIA that he too would be "deposed" if he didn't play along. It also has this to say: > During the coup, Roosevelt and Wilber, representatives of the Eisenhower administration, bribed Iranian government officials, reporters, and businessmen. They also bribed street thugs to support the Shah and oppose Mosaddegh. ... > Another tactic Roosevelt admitted to using was bribing demonstrators into attacking symbols of the Shah, while chanting pro-Mosaddegh slogans. ... Is this surprisingly good or is it laughable legend again?
- tlear 7y agoIn my own read Roosevelt was clearly heavily involved in the first attempt. Second one he mostly took credit for things he wish he could do. Wiki might be incomplete but compared to npr agitprop it is much better