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I’m pretty new to crypto in general, but it seems to me that the primary value of it in coming years would be anonymity/privacy. As I understand it Bitcoin has

I’m pretty new to crypto in general, but it seems to me that the primary value of it in coming years would be anonymity/privacy. As I understand it Bitcoin has some problems in this regard, but others have solved it. I just can’t find it hard to believe we get to 2030 without a way to buy things anonymously online.

djsumdog 7y ago
> anonymity/privacy Nope. Bitcoin and others don't solve this at all. They're a literal permanent ledger of every single transaction you've ever made. Other coins might be better at anonymity, but BTC and its derivatives are certainly not.
- ben174 7y ago
  Quite easily solved. There are plenty of services that will put your coin through an anonymizer, much like a VPN, or Tor.
  - ulzeraj 7y ago
    There is also coinjoin which is a service that mixes your coins with other participants. I also heard the Lightning network which operates on some kind of application level provides some kind of extra obfuscation.
  - hnews_account_1 7y ago
    This is not what anonymity looks like brother. Your IP address is not what links you to your bitcoin. It's your bitcoin address. And since we have a running ledger of all transactions, anyone can write a small script to trace your coins once they know even one of your addresses. The work around for this is what they call a coin tumbler - it takes your coins and those of say 5 more people, mixes them up real nice by moving them around a couple of wallets in many complicated transactions and then hands them back to a wallet you want from thousands of these mixed up addresses.
dcow 7y ago
Anonymity is not a fundamental human right. Rather it’s a tool that should be available in extreme circumstances. Totally anonymous systems generally devolve over time. Nothing about crypto is inherently anonymous. Bitcoin was never meant to be anonymous. There’s a public ledger... Crypto a la Bitcoin is fundamentally about building distributed consensus. Secure distributed consensus requires strong identity. Whether it’s easy to tie a crypto identity to a social one is simply a matter of time and not a fundamental principle of these systems (except maybe Monero). Behavior can always be analyzed.
- chii 7y ago
  i think the value of un-sanctionable funds is high, but only in times of turmoil. Think hong kong and the recent bank account seizures of the protestor organizations. If the financial system is tied to a fairly anonymous crypto, then the gov't cannot seize funds of organizations that oppose it (for better or worse).
ChrisClark 7y ago
There are several larger private chains, including at least one that has a built in decentralized marketplace. But adoption is very low. People may not know they care about private transactions until too late. In the end, it might depend on a chain becoming popular first before people want to use privacy features on top of it, like using Ernst & Young's Nightfall protocol that's built on top of Ethereum.
kspacewalk2 7y ago
You have a way to buy things anonymously right now, it's called Bitcoin. If you mean a low-fee and frictionless way, it's unclear why that would ever develop. Unless everything you earn and do is anonymous, it seems to me that the transition between the anonymous store of value and your real identity (address, bank acct) will involve friction and cost.
- colecut 7y ago
  It is fairly trivial to to follow a BTC transaction trail and deduce the owner of a wallet. Other options such as Monero are better for this.
- randaouser 7y ago
  Bitcoin is not anonymous and is subject to flow analysis. Zcash and monero have solved this in different ways with really intriguing primitives. ZCash uses zksnarks which are a pseudo homomorphic encryption strategy to hide payments whereas monero is using linkable ring signatures. Generally speaking, the blockchain community has really advanced the crypto field
WA 7y ago
Cash is anonymous and private.
- krapp 7y ago
  Cash is still controlled and regulated by a states. The point of crypto is to have currencies and markets which states cannot control, tax or regulate.
- lawn 7y ago
  You cannot buy things online with cash, unless you use an intermediary or mail it.

djsumdog 7y ago

> anonymity/privacy Nope. Bitcoin and others don't solve this at all. They're a literal permanent ledger of every single transaction you've ever made. Other coins might be better at anonymity, but BTC and its derivatives are certainly not.

ben174 7y ago
Quite easily solved. There are plenty of services that will put your coin through an anonymizer, much like a VPN, or Tor.
- ulzeraj 7y ago
  There is also coinjoin which is a service that mixes your coins with other participants. I also heard the Lightning network which operates on some kind of application level provides some kind of extra obfuscation.
- hnews_account_1 7y ago
  This is not what anonymity looks like brother. Your IP address is not what links you to your bitcoin. It's your bitcoin address. And since we have a running ledger of all transactions, anyone can write a small script to trace your coins once they know even one of your addresses. The work around for this is what they call a coin tumbler - it takes your coins and those of say 5 more people, mixes them up real nice by moving them around a couple of wallets in many complicated transactions and then hands them back to a wallet you want from thousands of these mixed up addresses.

dcow 7y ago

Anonymity is not a fundamental human right. Rather it’s a tool that should be available in extreme circumstances. Totally anonymous systems generally devolve over time. Nothing about crypto is inherently anonymous. Bitcoin was never meant to be anonymous. There’s a public ledger... Crypto a la Bitcoin is fundamentally about building distributed consensus. Secure distributed consensus requires strong identity. Whether it’s easy to tie a crypto identity to a social one is simply a matter of time and not a fundamental principle of these systems (except maybe Monero). Behavior can always be analyzed.

chii 7y ago
i think the value of un-sanctionable funds is high, but only in times of turmoil. Think hong kong and the recent bank account seizures of the protestor organizations. If the financial system is tied to a fairly anonymous crypto, then the gov't cannot seize funds of organizations that oppose it (for better or worse).

ChrisClark 7y ago

There are several larger private chains, including at least one that has a built in decentralized marketplace. But adoption is very low. People may not know they care about private transactions until too late. In the end, it might depend on a chain becoming popular first before people want to use privacy features on top of it, like using Ernst & Young's Nightfall protocol that's built on top of Ethereum.

kspacewalk2 7y ago

You have a way to buy things anonymously right now, it's called Bitcoin. If you mean a low-fee and frictionless way, it's unclear why that would ever develop. Unless everything you earn and do is anonymous, it seems to me that the transition between the anonymous store of value and your real identity (address, bank acct) will involve friction and cost.

colecut 7y ago
It is fairly trivial to to follow a BTC transaction trail and deduce the owner of a wallet. Other options such as Monero are better for this.
randaouser 7y ago
Bitcoin is not anonymous and is subject to flow analysis. Zcash and monero have solved this in different ways with really intriguing primitives. ZCash uses zksnarks which are a pseudo homomorphic encryption strategy to hide payments whereas monero is using linkable ring signatures. Generally speaking, the blockchain community has really advanced the crypto field

WA 7y ago

Cash is anonymous and private.

krapp 7y ago
Cash is still controlled and regulated by a states. The point of crypto is to have currencies and markets which states cannot control, tax or regulate.
lawn 7y ago
You cannot buy things online with cash, unless you use an intermediary or mail it.