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I don't think relying on a third party and especially one that is as fickle as Google to do the most basic workload is a sound idea. I won't be surprised if Go

I don't think relying on a third party and especially one that is as fickle as Google to do the most basic workload is a sound idea. I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future, as they killed a lot of stuff already[0]. I don't trust Google anymore. [0]: https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/

dontblink 7y ago
Honestly this trope is tiring. FUD.
- hylaride 7y ago
  FUD is exactly what it is, with good reason given Google’s habits with “poorly” performing products lately. Mind you, in chromeOS’s case it’s easy to go back to a regular computer.
- zouhair 7y ago
  How is it FUD? They literally keep killing years old projects. A lot of those project had a lot of regular users that added them to their workload for years just for Google to scrap them with no alternative. How one can trust them is beyond me. Then there is horror stories like this one[0] [0]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWaz7ofl5wQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWaz7ofl5wQ
- steego 7y ago
  You might be tired of it, but what it underscores is that Google has developed a reputation for creating experiments and killing them off when they no longer serves Google's purpose. It reminds Google's users that they're not customers, but proverbial farm animals whose attention is being auctioned off to advertisers. I get why they need to kill off products. I took a few minutes to look through https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/ and there are a lot of fleeting, gimmicky things on that list that should have never been released in the first place. Google has an image problem with this. By releasing all these unfocused products into the wild, they've signaled that they will create unfocused products and kill off the ones that aren't hugely successful. Now when they launch a new idea, people are no longer excited, but legitimately suspicious. When Google launched Allo and Duo at the same time (while Hangouts still existed), it sent a clear message that they really didn't care about product management and continuity or communicating to their users. They would rather be the ADD company that built 3 competing things and measure usage than to nurture and improve already successful products. People don't like having the rug pulled out from under them and the repetition of this trope will continue to echo so long as it resonates with readers. Even if it's FUD, this is a big problem for Google. I don't think Chrome OS will be on this list anytime soon, but if something shinier comes around, can you honestly tell me Google won't drop Chrome OS for the shinier thing?
  - gowld 7y ago
    Enterprise products are not ad financed.
kbenson 7y ago
While Google hasn't been the best at supporting products (and support in general), I always find statements like this with sites like that distasteful, as they leave out a lot of context that mitigates how bad it is. Sure, Google is EOLing Hangouts, but they provide a replacement. Sure, they've turned down a lot of products (like reader), but many (possibly most of the very large number presented on that site) were beta products. I clearly remember telling people that asked me about whether they should worry about it saying beta on some Google product I had recommended that Google always leaves stuff in beta for years and not to worry. Well, now we all know better. I'm not happy about it, but I don't feel like I can blame them for that either. They were pretty up-front about services being beta in most cases.
- Ygg2 7y ago
  Here is the thing. Google has one primary source of revenue. Ad tech. If Ad tech fails, all their other sources of revenue won't be able to pay for their other services, so the fear they'll cut them is warranted. Disclaimer I use Google services, but I'm definitely looking for alternatives.
  - andrewmutz 7y ago
    If your other preferred client is the Mac, you have the same challenge with Apple. Their entire mac product line is only 10% of their revenue.
    - afshin 7y ago
      It isn't the same challenge because Apple doesn't sell Macs at a loss.
      - d1zzy 7y ago
        Are you saying that Google sells Chrome OS at a loss?
    - awinder 7y ago
      Do google developers get issued chromebooks these days? Either way, there’s a large scale difference in the amount of money (because Apple makes more money than google in addition to 10% being 4x the 2.5% of revenue google is devoting to chromebooks). On top of that, Mac revenue is eaten into by iOS device revenue, which is a pretty close product category. Much closer than ads, at least.
brunoTbear 7y ago
This is a confusing and boring take. A) You have to trust third parties. B) It's boring to point out what Google has killed. But when you look at that list there's nothing as substantial as ChromeOS. Finally, ChromeOS is incredibly widely used internally, and is a revenue generating product in the Chromebook family sold to enterprises alongside Cloud products. It is not an area where Google is going to capitulate or kill without a sufficiently long runway and carefully considered EOL plan. Disclosure: am Googler. Am tired of half-considered takes on Google.
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  What’s the margin vs Google’s ad business?
- Analemma_ 7y ago
  > But when you look at that list there's nothing as substantial as ChromeOS. Google+ got way, way more investment than ChromeOS and was considered a top priority at the C-level. Still killed.
  - gowld 7y ago
    The context of this thread is Enterprise, where G+ was not killed.
    - signal11 7y ago
      In the enterprise context, I guess the Google Search Appliance would be a good example. Before you say "it wasn't widely used" -- that's probably why it was killed. Google customers who use a product that doesn't lead its market and/or make megabucks should be worried. We know there are other products that are failing to gain traction in the marketplace -- like GCP. While I'm not saying GCP will meet Search Appliance's fate, it has already been reported[1] that there will be financial consequences if GCP is unable to get a #2 position in the cloud marketplace by 2023. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260
pier25 7y ago
> I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future I think both Chrome OS and Android will be replaced by Fuchsia at some point. Native apps will be written in Dart/Flutter and they will also support web Chrome apps like Chrome OS does today.
xorcist 7y ago
There not much relying involved. It's not like Android, which is considerably less useful without the Googley bits. It's just a regular Linux desktop with Chrome pre-installed. Even if Google would kill all of Chrome in its entirety you could still run other software on it. You would lose secure boot but that's about it. It's more like a PC than an embedded system.
- stiray 7y ago
  Exactly. I am running android with microg without any google software installed. I cope with it, I had to reverse and patch banking software as it was using "safety net" but it works perfectly with few smali gotos added. If you take chrome os you have installed spyware as an os. Sorry, maybe "I have nothing to hide as a person, but as a bussiness I have plenty to hide. Or just avoid Adobe scenario (I live in EU): https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20904030/adobe-venezuela-photoshop-behance-us-sanctions https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20904030/adobe-venezuela-...
  - gowld 7y ago
    What Enterprise spyware is in ChromeOS/GSuite?
theamk 7y ago
But there is no lock-in there. If Chrome OS is dead, we switch to regular Linux|MacOS|Windows laptop running Chrome. It is more annoying and less secure, but all the software still runs. And Chrome-the-browser is pretty unlikely to be killed.
takeda 7y ago
> https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/ Looks like they are missing DejaNews / Google Groups (it started as an index /browser to Usenet, but was transformed as a tool for mailing lists)
Spooky23 7y ago
That’s a really lazy argument. The entire business world relys on a third party product (Microsoft Windows) whose business model has already changed and has already mostly killed its once flagship product (perpetually licensed windows). Google writes contracts for chrome enterprise support that are 5-7 years long, so it’s unlikely they would just make the product go poof.
- StudentStuff 7y ago
  The enterprise support contracts state that the EOL date is the one listed publicly: https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en This means the Thinkpad X131e had under 3 years of support if you bought it brand new like many school districts did in 2015.
  - arthurfm 7y ago
    > This means the ThinkPad X131e had under 3 years of support if you bought it brand new like many school districts did in 2015. The ThinkPad X131e Chromebook was originally released in February 2013 [1] and has received five years of Chrome OS updates from Google. From March 2017 onwards, new Chrome OS devices receive 6.5 years of support [2] and in November 2019 many received a further year of support on top of that [3] so the update situation is a lot better than it was. School districts purchasing X131e Chromebooks would have known at the time of purchase that they would stop receiving updates in February 2018 [4]. Being two plus years into their lifecycle is not really Google's fault. The districts need to do better due diligence. As you mentioned, EOL dates for all Chrome OS devices are published in an article on Google's website [5]. To get the most life out of a particular Chromebook model it needs to purchased as close to launch day as possible. That's what I always try to do when purchasing Chromebooks where I work. It's also worth mentioning that the X131e is supported by Neverware's CloudReady until 2025 [6] so the Chromebooks don't have to be thrown away when Google stops supporting them. [1] http://www.notebookreview.com/news/lenovo-releases-thinkpad-x131e-chromebook/ http://www.notebookreview.com/news/lenovo-releases-thinkpad-... [2] https://chromeunboxed.com/googles-end-of-life-policy-for-chromebooks-gets-updated/ https://chromeunboxed.com/googles-end-of-life-policy-for-chr... [3] https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/11/05/google-gives-most-chromebooks-an-extra-year-of-software-support/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/11/05/google-gives-most-c... [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20151120005811/https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366 https://web.archive.org/web/20151120005811/https://support.g... [5] https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en [6] https://guide.neverware.com/supported-devices/#LenovoThinkpadX131e https://guide.neverware.com/supported-devices/#LenovoThinkpa...
hurricanetc 7y ago
I’m more concerned that ChromeOS is essentially a spyware operating system.
- gowld 7y ago
  How so, for GSuite?
vidarh 7y ago
That's an issue for the web services, not Chrome OS, given that the appeal of Chrome OS is not installing apps or keeping data locally. You can switch to 'anything' running Chrome as a replacement.
m-p-3 7y ago
Considering how much the education sector uses Chromebook for their students (a big market they managed to capture early), I doubt they'd pull the plug on ChromeOS out of the blue without a long heads-up.

dontblink 7y ago

Honestly this trope is tiring. FUD.

hylaride 7y ago
FUD is exactly what it is, with good reason given Google’s habits with “poorly” performing products lately. Mind you, in chromeOS’s case it’s easy to go back to a regular computer.
zouhair 7y ago
How is it FUD? They literally keep killing years old projects. A lot of those project had a lot of regular users that added them to their workload for years just for Google to scrap them with no alternative. How one can trust them is beyond me. Then there is horror stories like this one[0] [0]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWaz7ofl5wQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWaz7ofl5wQ
steego 7y ago
You might be tired of it, but what it underscores is that Google has developed a reputation for creating experiments and killing them off when they no longer serves Google's purpose. It reminds Google's users that they're not customers, but proverbial farm animals whose attention is being auctioned off to advertisers. I get why they need to kill off products. I took a few minutes to look through https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/ and there are a lot of fleeting, gimmicky things on that list that should have never been released in the first place. Google has an image problem with this. By releasing all these unfocused products into the wild, they've signaled that they will create unfocused products and kill off the ones that aren't hugely successful. Now when they launch a new idea, people are no longer excited, but legitimately suspicious. When Google launched Allo and Duo at the same time (while Hangouts still existed), it sent a clear message that they really didn't care about product management and continuity or communicating to their users. They would rather be the ADD company that built 3 competing things and measure usage than to nurture and improve already successful products. People don't like having the rug pulled out from under them and the repetition of this trope will continue to echo so long as it resonates with readers. Even if it's FUD, this is a big problem for Google. I don't think Chrome OS will be on this list anytime soon, but if something shinier comes around, can you honestly tell me Google won't drop Chrome OS for the shinier thing?
- gowld 7y ago
  Enterprise products are not ad financed.

kbenson 7y ago

While Google hasn't been the best at supporting products (and support in general), I always find statements like this with sites like that distasteful, as they leave out a lot of context that mitigates how bad it is. Sure, Google is EOLing Hangouts, but they provide a replacement. Sure, they've turned down a lot of products (like reader), but many (possibly most of the very large number presented on that site) were beta products. I clearly remember telling people that asked me about whether they should worry about it saying beta on some Google product I had recommended that Google always leaves stuff in beta for years and not to worry. Well, now we all know better. I'm not happy about it, but I don't feel like I can blame them for that either. They were pretty up-front about services being beta in most cases.

Ygg2 7y ago
Here is the thing. Google has one primary source of revenue. Ad tech. If Ad tech fails, all their other sources of revenue won't be able to pay for their other services, so the fear they'll cut them is warranted. Disclaimer I use Google services, but I'm definitely looking for alternatives.
- andrewmutz 7y ago
  If your other preferred client is the Mac, you have the same challenge with Apple. Their entire mac product line is only 10% of their revenue.
  - afshin 7y ago
    It isn't the same challenge because Apple doesn't sell Macs at a loss.
    - d1zzy 7y ago
      Are you saying that Google sells Chrome OS at a loss?
  - awinder 7y ago
    Do google developers get issued chromebooks these days? Either way, there’s a large scale difference in the amount of money (because Apple makes more money than google in addition to 10% being 4x the 2.5% of revenue google is devoting to chromebooks). On top of that, Mac revenue is eaten into by iOS device revenue, which is a pretty close product category. Much closer than ads, at least.

brunoTbear 7y ago

This is a confusing and boring take. A) You have to trust third parties. B) It's boring to point out what Google has killed. But when you look at that list there's nothing as substantial as ChromeOS. Finally, ChromeOS is incredibly widely used internally, and is a revenue generating product in the Chromebook family sold to enterprises alongside Cloud products. It is not an area where Google is going to capitulate or kill without a sufficiently long runway and carefully considered EOL plan. Disclosure: am Googler. Am tired of half-considered takes on Google.

heavenlyblue 7y ago
What’s the margin vs Google’s ad business?
Analemma_ 7y ago
> But when you look at that list there's nothing as substantial as ChromeOS. Google+ got way, way more investment than ChromeOS and was considered a top priority at the C-level. Still killed.
- gowld 7y ago
  The context of this thread is Enterprise, where G+ was not killed.
  - signal11 7y ago
    In the enterprise context, I guess the Google Search Appliance would be a good example. Before you say "it wasn't widely used" -- that's probably why it was killed. Google customers who use a product that doesn't lead its market and/or make megabucks should be worried. We know there are other products that are failing to gain traction in the marketplace -- like GCP. While I'm not saying GCP will meet Search Appliance's fate, it has already been reported[1] that there will be financial consequences if GCP is unable to get a #2 position in the cloud marketplace by 2023. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260

pier25 7y ago

> I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future I think both Chrome OS and Android will be replaced by Fuchsia at some point. Native apps will be written in Dart/Flutter and they will also support web Chrome apps like Chrome OS does today.

xorcist 7y ago

There not much relying involved. It's not like Android, which is considerably less useful without the Googley bits. It's just a regular Linux desktop with Chrome pre-installed. Even if Google would kill all of Chrome in its entirety you could still run other software on it. You would lose secure boot but that's about it. It's more like a PC than an embedded system.

stiray 7y ago
Exactly. I am running android with microg without any google software installed. I cope with it, I had to reverse and patch banking software as it was using "safety net" but it works perfectly with few smali gotos added. If you take chrome os you have installed spyware as an os. Sorry, maybe "I have nothing to hide as a person, but as a bussiness I have plenty to hide. Or just avoid Adobe scenario (I live in EU): https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20904030/adobe-venezuela-photoshop-behance-us-sanctions https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20904030/adobe-venezuela-...
- gowld 7y ago
  What Enterprise spyware is in ChromeOS/GSuite?

theamk 7y ago

But there is no lock-in there. If Chrome OS is dead, we switch to regular Linux|MacOS|Windows laptop running Chrome. It is more annoying and less secure, but all the software still runs. And Chrome-the-browser is pretty unlikely to be killed.

takeda 7y ago

> https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/ Looks like they are missing DejaNews / Google Groups (it started as an index /browser to Usenet, but was transformed as a tool for mailing lists)

Spooky23 7y ago

That’s a really lazy argument. The entire business world relys on a third party product (Microsoft Windows) whose business model has already changed and has already mostly killed its once flagship product (perpetually licensed windows). Google writes contracts for chrome enterprise support that are 5-7 years long, so it’s unlikely they would just make the product go poof.

StudentStuff 7y ago
The enterprise support contracts state that the EOL date is the one listed publicly: https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en This means the Thinkpad X131e had under 3 years of support if you bought it brand new like many school districts did in 2015.
- arthurfm 7y ago
  > This means the ThinkPad X131e had under 3 years of support if you bought it brand new like many school districts did in 2015. The ThinkPad X131e Chromebook was originally released in February 2013 [1] and has received five years of Chrome OS updates from Google. From March 2017 onwards, new Chrome OS devices receive 6.5 years of support [2] and in November 2019 many received a further year of support on top of that [3] so the update situation is a lot better than it was. School districts purchasing X131e Chromebooks would have known at the time of purchase that they would stop receiving updates in February 2018 [4]. Being two plus years into their lifecycle is not really Google's fault. The districts need to do better due diligence. As you mentioned, EOL dates for all Chrome OS devices are published in an article on Google's website [5]. To get the most life out of a particular Chromebook model it needs to purchased as close to launch day as possible. That's what I always try to do when purchasing Chromebooks where I work. It's also worth mentioning that the X131e is supported by Neverware's CloudReady until 2025 [6] so the Chromebooks don't have to be thrown away when Google stops supporting them. [1] http://www.notebookreview.com/news/lenovo-releases-thinkpad-x131e-chromebook/ http://www.notebookreview.com/news/lenovo-releases-thinkpad-... [2] https://chromeunboxed.com/googles-end-of-life-policy-for-chromebooks-gets-updated/ https://chromeunboxed.com/googles-end-of-life-policy-for-chr... [3] https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/11/05/google-gives-most-chromebooks-an-extra-year-of-software-support/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/11/05/google-gives-most-c... [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20151120005811/https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366 https://web.archive.org/web/20151120005811/https://support.g... [5] https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en [6] https://guide.neverware.com/supported-devices/#LenovoThinkpadX131e https://guide.neverware.com/supported-devices/#LenovoThinkpa...

hurricanetc 7y ago

I’m more concerned that ChromeOS is essentially a spyware operating system.

gowld 7y ago
How so, for GSuite?

vidarh 7y ago

That's an issue for the web services, not Chrome OS, given that the appeal of Chrome OS is not installing apps or keeping data locally. You can switch to 'anything' running Chrome as a replacement.

m-p-3 7y ago

Considering how much the education sector uses Chromebook for their students (a big market they managed to capture early), I doubt they'd pull the plug on ChromeOS out of the blue without a long heads-up.