11 ms·

The Greatest Keyboard of All Time Reborn (2018) [video]

zevv 7y ago
I can't help to just keep blatantly reposting this for each and every HN article about buckle spring keyboards: https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring "This project emulates the sound of my old faithful IBM Model-M space saver bucklespring keyboard while typing on my notebook, mainly for the purpose of annoying the hell out of my coworkers." Enjoy!
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Oh God, the key sound comes on the right channel if I press the right Shift, but the left channel if I press the left Shift. That's some attention to detail, wow.
- macjohnmcc 7y ago
  It would be fun to annoy others with it but the extra width of the keyboard also comes with the annoyance that your mouse is further to the right as well. I alternate between using my M and other mechanical keyboards (months between switching) until my memory of the inconvenience of the mouse being further away fades.
  - zevv 7y ago
    That is where the Model M "space saver" comes in: https://tinyurl.com/vcvkf8p https://tinyurl.com/vcvkf8p
    - ghaff 7y ago
      I have a WASD but same layout. I never used the numeric keyboard and it fits on my keyboard tray with a big Mac trackpad much better than my previous full-size mechanical keyboard did.
i0exception 7y ago
If you're interested in buying one of these, Unicomp (https://www.pckeyboard.com https://www.pckeyboard.com) purchased the rights to continue making Model M style keyboards once Lexmark removed them from their line of products. If you want to buy one of the originals, https://clickykeyboards.com https://clickykeyboards.com has them. Also, the Model F (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard) is considered by many as being superior to the Model M. IBM made far fewer Model Fs compared to the Ms, so if you find one of these in the wild, it'll be really expensive. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com https://www.modelfkeyboards.com is trying to re-create the original Model F.
- huhtenberg 7y ago
  Unicomps are covered in the video, including the backstory.
- elric 7y ago
  While it's true that Unicomp have purchased all the rights and equipment to make Model M keyboards, the quality doesn't seem to a candle to the original. I managed to break two in the span of two years. At which point I gave up on them and simply built my own. This could just have been catastrophically bad luck. Or like Linus says in the video, maybe it has something to do with their version being based on the newer, cheaper Lexmark version and not the IBM original. Model F was a very interesting keyboard. I was rather fond of the 24 function keys on mine. And I now regret not having taken mine with me when I moved out at age 18.
  - Aloha 7y ago
    I've had pretty good luck with them.
  - jrockway 7y ago
    The model M got progressively "cheaper" throughout its lifetime. Mostly, metal was replaced with plastic. The keyswitches and keycaps are still top quality. What Unicomp makes today is a mid-90s version of the model M. It's not the best ever made, but it's still pretty good. However, there are other keyboards around that are also pretty good.
Kaibeezy 7y ago
I miss having the function keys on the left, Word Perfect 1987-style. ETA: Aha! https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A
- mdip 7y ago
  Yes, please. It's so much easier to hit the right F-Key (without looking down), especially when combined with ALT/CTRL, when they're on the left. I wish this was still an option these days. Thanks for the link. Damn, I haven't seen a 122 key keyboard since the 80s!
  - Kaibeezy 7y ago
    Right? Right? It was like playing chords on a piano, or maybe like those rows of buttons on an accordion. Top row F keys, feh!
rudolfwinestock 7y ago
For a moment, I thought that they were talking about this project: https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboard https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboard For those too lazy to click, it's a project to resurrect the Space Cadet Keyboard. It's still in the planning stages.
bullen 7y ago
I feel rick-rolled, please warn about linking to Linus, I only open his videos in incognito mode!
- logicallee 7y ago
  Why?
  - tasssko 7y ago
    His isn’t that interested in the content and doesn’t want his feed to end up with perpetual LTT recommendations.
    - logicallee 7y ago
      oh OK.
kpgraham 7y ago
I am typing this on a Model M. I wrote my first program in 1969 and I have used every kind of keyboard since. I bought four Model Ms, new in the box, about 10 years ago for $7 each. I expect them to last for the next 20 years (if I live that long). The keys are black from my fingers and some of the letters are partially worn off. The model M is the best keyboard that I have ever used.
- mdip 7y ago
  I used to work with a guy who used the original Model M that he had with the PC he was given in the late 80s/early 90s. It's survived multiple coffee spills and at least one case where it was repeatedly picked up and bashed against the desk out of frustration (both key-side down and up). You'll almost certainly get that 20 years. If you want to restore the keys -- and to be clear, I can't honestly recommend this approach -- but I used to bathe my Northgate Omnikey and clean it with dish soap, followed by a trip to the oven on the equivalent of a "keep warm" setting for a half-day. I was surprised that a lot of the discoloration on the keys wasn't the usual plastic oxidation but was from the oil and grime on my fingertips. It always came out shining and like-new -- partly because whatever they did to print the letters on the keys was very resistant to being worn off. I did it about once every 2 years during the decade and a half that I owned it and it was sold at an estate sale in perfect working condition 15 years after that. At least one person mentioned using a dishwasher. I've never tried it, and would never do that to a modern keyboard, but I'd imagine the effects would be similar with a whole lot less effort.
  - celestialcheese 7y ago
    LTT did a video testing out different cleaning methods - Surprisingly keyboards in dishwasher with modern keyboards was safe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgnF42ZoRSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgnF42ZoRSw
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
I miss my Model M, having gotten rid of it in 2016 because I knew no open office outside of China would accept me using one. Now I just use a das with the quieter cherry switches, it feels so inferior.
petilon 7y ago
To me the greatest keyboard of all time is Acer Future, seen in this picture: https://i.imgur.com/KIjOiuQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/KIjOiuQ.jpg It is great because the trackpad is in the center of the keyboard, which means you don't have to stretch your arm to use the mouse. The keys feel nice and it is ergonomic. Sadly they stopped making these long ago. Nothing like it is available in the market today.
- buster 7y ago
  This looks quite a bit like my kinesis pro keyboard which I bought because of CTS. I am thinking about putting a touchpad in the middle..
  - ianai 7y ago
    I have one there. Works well!
- retsibsi 7y ago
  It also looks uncomfortably like a certain iconic shock image...
heybrandons 7y ago
Dang, I was hoping for something newer. Model M's today are really hard to work with. It take's majority of your desk space and then you have to use one of those weird adapters that you will have to convert again to plug into most computers. I use the happy hacking boards as they're pretty solid, take up less space and still feel alright typing. Seeing the video does give me new inspiration to go back to the model m though... Thanks for sharing!
jrockway 7y ago
The model M is an interesting keyboard; the sound and tactility is great. However, those keyswitches are quite heavy by modern standards and you may find your fingers getting tired. The layout is also not amazing, and the controller doesn't lend itself to much customizability. If you work in an environment where loud keys are acceptable, you should try the Kailh/Novelkeys "thick clicks": https://novelkeys.xyz/products/novelkeys-x-kailh-box-thick-clicks https://novelkeys.xyz/products/novelkeys-x-kailh-box-thick-c... The sound and tactility on these switches is incredible. I think a lot of people that are interested in mechanical keyboards think the only options available are Cherry Browns, Cherry Blues, Topre, and buckling springs... but the reality is that that is the tip of the iceberg. The new designs in the Cherry form factor are much better than anything Cherry makes or has ever made; so if you've tried those and didn't like them (I found them distractingly scratchy and not very tactile; apparently a common complaint), there are a lot of other options before you have to go to a finger-killing model M. I currently use an Ergodox EZ with Thick Clicks (Jade on the pinky keys, Navy on everything else) and love it. It is the most tactile keyboard I have ever used, and the sound is amazing. I also have an Ergodox EZ with Healios (silent linear) switches and love those too. They are the smoothest and quietest switches I have ever touched; it is almost distracting how smooth and silent they are. Anyway, there is a lot of good stuff out there and a lot of keyboards support swapping switches without soldering now, so you can try them all. I think most people will like a non-model-M board, simply because we can do so much better now. If you've ever used Cherry switches and said "this is terrible" and though that a model M was your only option for tactility; that's just not the case anymore. There are hundreds of switches between Cherry Brown and buckling spring now; one of them is likely to be "your thing". Some switches I've used recently: - Hako True - these were designed to feel like Topre switches, but they don't feel like Topre switches. They feel linear and get very heavy before activation, so they don't feel good to type on to me. It just feels like compressing a spring and maybe your key will be typed if you're lucky. - Novelkeys Box Royal - these are very tactile, but you can very strongly feel the activation point and they feel like they want to get stuck there on the way up. I used these as pinky keys for about a year and they just got scratchier and scratchier until I felt the need to replace them. (Lube is probably the correct fix, but I am too lazy to lube keyswitches.) They are quite tactile, though. Interesting design, worth a try. - Hako Royal Clear - these are heavier Box Royals, I think, and I used them for about a year as the non-pinky keys on the board with Box Royals. Pretty tactile, but you can definitely feel some clickiness at the activation point on the way up. They are not particularly quiet, but are a good switch to try out. - Novelkeys Thick Clicks - very very very tactile, maybe the most tactile switch I've ever used. Super loud. The Jades really do require you to remove all force from the key to come back up; I notice this but it doesn't bother me in any way. My favorite switch family by far, if you can live with the noise. It's not "oh I can hear someone typing", it's "there is an earthquake nearby we're all going to die" loud. Similar to buckling springs, but not as heavy. Still on the heavy side, though, so if you like really light switches, they are not for you. (If you like light switches, I think you are basically dead with respect to tactile or clickiness, though; the tactile bump is always going to be heavy.) - Healios - smoothest mechanism ever. Touching them makes you think they are exuding quality. Silent on bottom-out and upstroke. Nobody will know you're using a mechanical keyboard. They are perfect for gaming, and pretty good for typing. (I'm using them right now.) They are very very light even though they are sold as 67g switches. I had avoided linear switches because I thought I needed the tactility to avoid bottoming out, but I was wrong. Worth a look. There are also some good switches I haven't personally used; namely the Zilents. Anyway, my point is that you don't need to go full model M to get good keyswitches. There are better boards and good switches around. Get a board with "hot-swappable" switches and try some out, it's likely you'll be able to build the perfect keyboard. You won't be stuck with a standard layout as you are with Realforce or Model M boards, and you'll be able to use a firmware like QMK to get a perfect layout. (For example, I have ({}) on the home row activated by a thumb switch on the other hand. Must more comfortable for coding than groping for all those keys with your pinky.)
Finnucane 7y ago
This is making me miss the Northgate Omnikey keyboard I had 30 years ago.
- mdip 7y ago
  I think every one of my comments has mentioned this keyboard. IMO, it's the best keyboard that was ever made and I'm seriously considering buying one on ebay (along with all of the stuff required to plug it in to current hardware).
unixhero 7y ago
This wacky and fun chemistry PhD reviews keyboards. His reviews are highly relevant for this thread: https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22 https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mdip 7y ago
I just saw one of these on Craigslist. I used one of these for years at my first "real job" and loved it, but wow is it noisy. In the 90s, my dad and I built custom (higher-end) PCs for small businesses and individuals. We carefully weeded out parts that we didn't like and put a high priority on excellent displays[1], good keyboards and mice[2]. To this day, I'm surprised at how little thought is paid to such a critical input device. And it's not that users don't care about it, it's almost like it was forgotten. My personal preference, in this category, though was the Northgate Omnikey[0]. It was a multi-platform keyboard that was able to be plugged in to an AT/XT, Amiga and a few others. The model I had was left-oriented F-keys (I miss that!) and included extra keys and tools so that you could put the CTRL where "Caps Lock" was, and "alt" where the left CTRL was, which was how we configured them ... no more accidental CAPS LOCK hits when aiming for "A". Unfortunately, my parents sold it in an estate sale a while back. I doubt they got anywhere near the $100-$200 that these sell for when functional (depending on condition ... most are very yellow due to the plastic oxidizing but you can still find some that maintain their gray-white/blue color). Pretty rare to find a keyboard that resells for about the price they were new (sans inflation). I'd put the IBM at a very close second. The Northgate was easily on par as far as "feel" was concerned, but the IBM keyboards had this loud "ping" sound that sort-of rang after a key was pressed (springs), which the Omnikey lacked. I couldn't own a keyboard like that if I wanted to continue programming since, at the time, most of my programming[4] was done between midnight and 3:00 AM with fleeting parental approval (fleeting ... if I woke them up). I feel that keyboard quality is something that manufacturers have missed the ball on -- especially on notebooks. This Christmas I picked out a Thinkpad for my parents. They love it. My Dad now wants a new desktop keyboard, though, because he really likes the Thinkpad keyboard. I was a little puzzled -- his current board feels exactly the same to my fingers. After thinking about it for a bit, I'm fairly certain I know where the problem is: despite the same feel, his desktop keyboard weighs almost nothing. Every time you touch a key, or even reach out for it, it slides a little. So every few sentences, you're re-positioning the keyboard. At my typing speed, this means repositioning the keyboard constantly. It makes me wonder if in all of this effort to make things lighter and more portable, the industry miscalculated by applying that logic to peripheral keyboards. I'd prefer my keyboard to weight twice as much as my current laptop. To me, I'd rather have a keyboard heavier than a notebook PC. Between the two I use most regularly, one is wired, the other is wireless, both would move with a reasonable gust of wind. Why do I care if it's convenient to carry when it never leaves my desktop? There's much greater value is in it staying put while I use it. At my office, several developers I work with have purchased their own keyboards. Some of it is "cool factor", but one thing I found consistently about the boards they've chosen -- All of them weigh in at 3 times the weight of the typical $15 board and most have sticky rubber feet. About half hadn't realized the difference until I pointed it out. I even had one co-worker that got upset at the realization -- he'd narrowed the choice down to 2 keyboards and opted for the lighter one. I made him unhappy with his decision. Oops! [0] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Northgate_OmniKey/101 https://deskthority.net/wiki/Northgate_OmniKey/101 [1] I can't remember the brand, but nearly every computer monitor was XGA 14"; we only sold 16+" and went with Trinitron models and models with similar technology (at the time, I think Sony had an active patent on the technology, but we had quality issues so we switched to a different brand that I assume didn't work exactly like the Trinitron, but still had the color clarity). [2] We never found a mouse worth a damn -- we experimented with an early model of ball-free mice, but it was trash. [3] I'm sure there's an intelligent, technical, term for that but I don't care to search for it. [4] I was writing a BBS from scratch in Borland/Turbo Pascal after deciding to toss out the code from my Telegard hack. I've actually tried to revisit that using SSH as transport (instead of dial-up) but ran out of motivation.
ljm 7y ago
I love these keyboards (and mechanical keyboards in general; the tactility and sensitivity is so satisfying). I just wish there was a silent option that wasn't still loud as fuck. The main problem is that noise isolating/cancelling cans won't protect you from the clackety-clack, which for a lot of people can be as infuriating as listening to someone eating loudly.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Back in the 80s when everyone in the office was using one, no one apparently cared or noticed the noise. Though we didn't have everyone hiding behind cans and there was often a bit of a coffee shop lite buzz of background chatter. I think everyone got over sensitive about it as we all hide behind a playlist.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    Wasn't the noise damped somewhat by offices or cubicles and solid desks?
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      Hmm, heavier desks may have contributed, but at least in my early career I've not had an office -- it was usually 4-8 people per room.
  - bsder 7y ago
    > Back in the 80s when everyone in the office was using one, no one apparently cared or noticed the noise. Remember what the alternative was back then ... a bunch of people using typewriters. Compared to typewriters these keyboards are a massive improvement in noise.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      True, though I was more thinking of the computing context, where what went before might have been a VT100 or 52, maybe a Wyse or IBM.
mdip 7y ago
Somewhat topic-adjacent -- I'm looking at getting a new keyboard. In my early 20s, I used this specific keyboard and while I liked it (as my other comment points out), it's super loud. Does anyone make a heavy mechanical keyboard with F-Keys on the left any longer? It is a whole lot easier to land on the right F-key without looking down when they're vertical on the left (just like it's easier to hit all the numbers accurately on a number-pad vs. the top row). Being able to one-hand CTRL/ALT+F-keys accurately, without looking, is somewhere between difficult and impossible on modern keyboard designs. The keyboard I grew up on, the Northgate Omnikey, was heavy, had left-oriented F-Keys, and included replacement key caps for CTRL, ALT and CAPS LOCK (along with a tool to remove the keys!) so that you could put CTRL where CAPS LOCK typically is and ALT where CTRL typically is. It also had corresponding DIP switches that controlled whether the keyboard sent CTRL or CAPS LOCK from that position, so no monkeying around with driver software or OS configuration to make your keyboard behave the way that the key caps indicated. Are any of you using a board like this which is either USB or PS/2 and has been manufactured in the last 5 years (or is still produced, new, today)?
- cptnapalm 7y ago
  Unicomp makes one: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A It will be gloriously clickity clackety.
YZF 7y ago
The history in the video doesn't ring quite right. The heritage of the PS/2 keyboard also relate to mainframe terminals (3270 and maybe 5250) which predate the IBM PC and to the original IBM/AT keyboard which predates the PS/2. Presumably some of those have electric typewriter heritage as well. I also think some of those older keyboards were nicer than the PS/2 IMNHO.
hazeii 7y ago
To me (and it seems very much a personal opinion) not having an F-key array on the left - as on the original AT keyboards - was one of the biggest losses made during keyboard evolution. Depends on the software in use of course, but being able to hit a modifier (Ctrl, Shift, Alt) and an F-key without stretching is the reason I still use the old-style layout to this day.
skocznymroczny 7y ago
I've been on a mechanical keyboard adventure, and I realized most of them are not for me. I don't have any nostalgia for the 80s keyboards, and I can't stand tall keys anymore. I am using a low-profile mechanical keyboard (Havit KB390L) and it's the only mechanical keyboard that is usable for me. However, it's likely my next keyboard will be scissor switch again. I will probably go for Logitech MX Keys, seems to be the best option for premium scissor switch keyboards.
- jakear 7y ago
  I agree, it’s very difficult to go from my MBP butterfly keys to a mechanical. On top of the enormous amount of travel required, I also would be forced to use a mouse (or external trackpad), which is so much slower than having the touchpad at my thumbs at all times. Right now, I type quickly on the keyboard, and any time I need to use the pointer all that’s required is a slight rotation of my right hand. Compare that to all the mechanical keyboard folks in my office, who also type quickly, but every cursor interaction is a movement of their entire arm. I don’t understand how they’re okay with that. Anyone know of a nice low profile mechanical with a built in trackpad?
  - dlevine 7y ago
    Unicomp makes a version that has a built in trackpoint and mouse buttons. Haven't used it, though.
    - toast0 7y ago
      I've read that the trackpoint in the M13s (including the Unicomps) are one of the earlier designs, and trackpoint enthusiasts prefer the newer versions. That's as far as I went down that rabbit hole.
  - skocznymroczny 7y ago
    I'd love to have a butterfly keyboard for my desktop. Unfortunately there aren't any and it's not the best time for butterfly keyboards right now because of reputation for being faulty.
sleepybrett 7y ago
to hell with the M.. my heart still lives with the F. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/
ChuckMcM 7y ago
I have an M13 made in 1994 by Lexmark. It is distinguished by having the track point built into the keyboard. I do prefer its feel over that of 'modern' mechanical keyboards.
myrandomcomment 7y ago
I still have a Model M attached to an older system that I use for playing with different Linux distos on. The date stamp on the back says "28Nov88". Today my is keyboard is a Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless (Japanese). I also have the Flico "Genuine Wood" wrist rest. I ordered replacement keycaps to match MacOS vs the default Windows keys (any replaced the Caplocks with Ctrl, the way God intended it!). I have one on the desk at home and work. The feeling is not quite as good as the Model M but it works well. Switches are Cherry Brown (45g). The Model M is 70g IIRC. If you are looking for a keyboard, Filco is worth trying. If you live in Japan any of the big tech shops (Bic, etc) will have a ton on display with different switches you can try out. When I worked at IBM way back when, keyboards were a "green tagged" part vs. a "red tagged part". Green = order as many as you want with no accounting/reason for doing so. Red parts had to be accounted for (the $$$ stuff).
znpy 7y ago
Uh... I remember I saw that video in advance on Floatplane (https://www.floatplane.com/ https://www.floatplane.com/) and decided to get an EnduraPro (Basically a ModelM + Trackpoint) from Unicomp. I've used it for a while but then decided to put it away. Two big problems: 1. The trackpoint moves the cursor to the left just right, but it hits a key when moving to the right. Basically it's super fast to move in one direction and super-slow in the opposite. It got me crazy. 2. The keys are immensely loud. Duh. I was expecting loud keys, but I didn't expect that much loud. I am not kidding here: i decided to finally put away the keyboard when, while typing on an afternoon, I hit the Enter key a bit harder than usual and somehow I got pain in my right ear. I am not sure if this was due to some vibration traveling back through my right arm or just from noise, but man that did not feel good at all. Oh... did I mention that thing is FUING MASSIVE? It's HEAVY. HEAVY AS FK. One of the Model-M disadvantages (that also affects a lot of mechanical keyboards, but no one seems to care, apparenly) is that the key plane is raised from where your palm usually rests, and the angle the key forms is not negligible. One could probably get some kind of wrist strain by using it all the day everyday. And don't even get me started on the mess I had to do to have it shipped to europe... I have settled on an IBM SK-8845 keyboard at work and a ThinkPad USB (x220-style) keyboard at home. They're both quieter, the trackpoint works a lot better (the sk-8845 even has the touchpad), they're flatter and they both have a very comfortable palmrest. In the end, I don't completely regret buying the endura pro but I wouldn't buy it again.
thelazydogsback 7y ago
On a related note, I just came across this: https://www.amazon.com/Freewrite-Distraction-Free-Typewriter-Frontlight-Mechanical/dp/B01GGE8CP8/ref=sr_1_54 https://www.amazon.com/Freewrite-Distraction-Free-Typewriter... Looks like a good TRS-80 Model 100 replacement for writers. Although perhaps a bit too anachronistic as you can apparently only backspace!

zevv 7y ago

I can't help to just keep blatantly reposting this for each and every HN article about buckle spring keyboards: https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring "This project emulates the sound of my old faithful IBM Model-M space saver bucklespring keyboard while typing on my notebook, mainly for the purpose of annoying the hell out of my coworkers." Enjoy!

StavrosK 7y ago
Oh God, the key sound comes on the right channel if I press the right Shift, but the left channel if I press the left Shift. That's some attention to detail, wow.
macjohnmcc 7y ago
It would be fun to annoy others with it but the extra width of the keyboard also comes with the annoyance that your mouse is further to the right as well. I alternate between using my M and other mechanical keyboards (months between switching) until my memory of the inconvenience of the mouse being further away fades.
- zevv 7y ago
  That is where the Model M "space saver" comes in: https://tinyurl.com/vcvkf8p https://tinyurl.com/vcvkf8p
  - ghaff 7y ago
    I have a WASD but same layout. I never used the numeric keyboard and it fits on my keyboard tray with a big Mac trackpad much better than my previous full-size mechanical keyboard did.

i0exception 7y ago

If you're interested in buying one of these, Unicomp (https://www.pckeyboard.com https://www.pckeyboard.com) purchased the rights to continue making Model M style keyboards once Lexmark removed them from their line of products. If you want to buy one of the originals, https://clickykeyboards.com https://clickykeyboards.com has them. Also, the Model F (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard) is considered by many as being superior to the Model M. IBM made far fewer Model Fs compared to the Ms, so if you find one of these in the wild, it'll be really expensive. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com https://www.modelfkeyboards.com is trying to re-create the original Model F.

huhtenberg 7y ago
Unicomps are covered in the video, including the backstory.
elric 7y ago
While it's true that Unicomp have purchased all the rights and equipment to make Model M keyboards, the quality doesn't seem to a candle to the original. I managed to break two in the span of two years. At which point I gave up on them and simply built my own. This could just have been catastrophically bad luck. Or like Linus says in the video, maybe it has something to do with their version being based on the newer, cheaper Lexmark version and not the IBM original. Model F was a very interesting keyboard. I was rather fond of the 24 function keys on mine. And I now regret not having taken mine with me when I moved out at age 18.
- Aloha 7y ago
  I've had pretty good luck with them.
- jrockway 7y ago
  The model M got progressively "cheaper" throughout its lifetime. Mostly, metal was replaced with plastic. The keyswitches and keycaps are still top quality. What Unicomp makes today is a mid-90s version of the model M. It's not the best ever made, but it's still pretty good. However, there are other keyboards around that are also pretty good.

Kaibeezy 7y ago

I miss having the function keys on the left, Word Perfect 1987-style. ETA: Aha! https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A

mdip 7y ago
Yes, please. It's so much easier to hit the right F-Key (without looking down), especially when combined with ALT/CTRL, when they're on the left. I wish this was still an option these days. Thanks for the link. Damn, I haven't seen a 122 key keyboard since the 80s!
- Kaibeezy 7y ago
  Right? Right? It was like playing chords on a piano, or maybe like those rows of buttons on an accordion. Top row F keys, feh!

rudolfwinestock 7y ago

For a moment, I thought that they were talking about this project: https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboard https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboard For those too lazy to click, it's a project to resurrect the Space Cadet Keyboard. It's still in the planning stages.

bullen 7y ago

I feel rick-rolled, please warn about linking to Linus, I only open his videos in incognito mode!

logicallee 7y ago
Why?
- tasssko 7y ago
  His isn’t that interested in the content and doesn’t want his feed to end up with perpetual LTT recommendations.
  - logicallee 7y ago
    oh OK.

kpgraham 7y ago

I am typing this on a Model M. I wrote my first program in 1969 and I have used every kind of keyboard since. I bought four Model Ms, new in the box, about 10 years ago for $7 each. I expect them to last for the next 20 years (if I live that long). The keys are black from my fingers and some of the letters are partially worn off. The model M is the best keyboard that I have ever used.

mdip 7y ago
I used to work with a guy who used the original Model M that he had with the PC he was given in the late 80s/early 90s. It's survived multiple coffee spills and at least one case where it was repeatedly picked up and bashed against the desk out of frustration (both key-side down and up). You'll almost certainly get that 20 years. If you want to restore the keys -- and to be clear, I can't honestly recommend this approach -- but I used to bathe my Northgate Omnikey and clean it with dish soap, followed by a trip to the oven on the equivalent of a "keep warm" setting for a half-day. I was surprised that a lot of the discoloration on the keys wasn't the usual plastic oxidation but was from the oil and grime on my fingertips. It always came out shining and like-new -- partly because whatever they did to print the letters on the keys was very resistant to being worn off. I did it about once every 2 years during the decade and a half that I owned it and it was sold at an estate sale in perfect working condition 15 years after that. At least one person mentioned using a dishwasher. I've never tried it, and would never do that to a modern keyboard, but I'd imagine the effects would be similar with a whole lot less effort.
- celestialcheese 7y ago
  LTT did a video testing out different cleaning methods - Surprisingly keyboards in dishwasher with modern keyboards was safe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgnF42ZoRSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgnF42ZoRSw

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

I miss my Model M, having gotten rid of it in 2016 because I knew no open office outside of China would accept me using one. Now I just use a das with the quieter cherry switches, it feels so inferior.

petilon 7y ago

To me the greatest keyboard of all time is Acer Future, seen in this picture: https://i.imgur.com/KIjOiuQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/KIjOiuQ.jpg It is great because the trackpad is in the center of the keyboard, which means you don't have to stretch your arm to use the mouse. The keys feel nice and it is ergonomic. Sadly they stopped making these long ago. Nothing like it is available in the market today.

buster 7y ago
This looks quite a bit like my kinesis pro keyboard which I bought because of CTS. I am thinking about putting a touchpad in the middle..
- ianai 7y ago
  I have one there. Works well!
retsibsi 7y ago
It also looks uncomfortably like a certain iconic shock image...

heybrandons 7y ago

Dang, I was hoping for something newer. Model M's today are really hard to work with. It take's majority of your desk space and then you have to use one of those weird adapters that you will have to convert again to plug into most computers. I use the happy hacking boards as they're pretty solid, take up less space and still feel alright typing. Seeing the video does give me new inspiration to go back to the model m though... Thanks for sharing!

jrockway 7y ago

The model M is an interesting keyboard; the sound and tactility is great. However, those keyswitches are quite heavy by modern standards and you may find your fingers getting tired. The layout is also not amazing, and the controller doesn't lend itself to much customizability. If you work in an environment where loud keys are acceptable, you should try the Kailh/Novelkeys "thick clicks": https://novelkeys.xyz/products/novelkeys-x-kailh-box-thick-clicks https://novelkeys.xyz/products/novelkeys-x-kailh-box-thick-c... The sound and tactility on these switches is incredible. I think a lot of people that are interested in mechanical keyboards think the only options available are Cherry Browns, Cherry Blues, Topre, and buckling springs... but the reality is that that is the tip of the iceberg. The new designs in the Cherry form factor are much better than anything Cherry makes or has ever made; so if you've tried those and didn't like them (I found them distractingly scratchy and not very tactile; apparently a common complaint), there are a lot of other options before you have to go to a finger-killing model M. I currently use an Ergodox EZ with Thick Clicks (Jade on the pinky keys, Navy on everything else) and love it. It is the most tactile keyboard I have ever used, and the sound is amazing. I also have an Ergodox EZ with Healios (silent linear) switches and love those too. They are the smoothest and quietest switches I have ever touched; it is almost distracting how smooth and silent they are. Anyway, there is a lot of good stuff out there and a lot of keyboards support swapping switches without soldering now, so you can try them all. I think most people will like a non-model-M board, simply because we can do so much better now. If you've ever used Cherry switches and said "this is terrible" and though that a model M was your only option for tactility; that's just not the case anymore. There are hundreds of switches between Cherry Brown and buckling spring now; one of them is likely to be "your thing". Some switches I've used recently: - Hako True - these were designed to feel like Topre switches, but they don't feel like Topre switches. They feel linear and get very heavy before activation, so they don't feel good to type on to me. It just feels like compressing a spring and maybe your key will be typed if you're lucky. - Novelkeys Box Royal - these are very tactile, but you can very strongly feel the activation point and they feel like they want to get stuck there on the way up. I used these as pinky keys for about a year and they just got scratchier and scratchier until I felt the need to replace them. (Lube is probably the correct fix, but I am too lazy to lube keyswitches.) They are quite tactile, though. Interesting design, worth a try. - Hako Royal Clear - these are heavier Box Royals, I think, and I used them for about a year as the non-pinky keys on the board with Box Royals. Pretty tactile, but you can definitely feel some clickiness at the activation point on the way up. They are not particularly quiet, but are a good switch to try out. - Novelkeys Thick Clicks - very very very tactile, maybe the most tactile switch I've ever used. Super loud. The Jades really do require you to remove all force from the key to come back up; I notice this but it doesn't bother me in any way. My favorite switch family by far, if you can live with the noise. It's not "oh I can hear someone typing", it's "there is an earthquake nearby we're all going to die" loud. Similar to buckling springs, but not as heavy. Still on the heavy side, though, so if you like really light switches, they are not for you. (If you like light switches, I think you are basically dead with respect to tactile or clickiness, though; the tactile bump is always going to be heavy.) - Healios - smoothest mechanism ever. Touching them makes you think they are exuding quality. Silent on bottom-out and upstroke. Nobody will know you're using a mechanical keyboard. They are perfect for gaming, and pretty good for typing. (I'm using them right now.) They are very very light even though they are sold as 67g switches. I had avoided linear switches because I thought I needed the tactility to avoid bottoming out, but I was wrong. Worth a look. There are also some good switches I haven't personally used; namely the Zilents. Anyway, my point is that you don't need to go full model M to get good keyswitches. There are better boards and good switches around. Get a board with "hot-swappable" switches and try some out, it's likely you'll be able to build the perfect keyboard. You won't be stuck with a standard layout as you are with Realforce or Model M boards, and you'll be able to use a firmware like QMK to get a perfect layout. (For example, I have ({}) on the home row activated by a thumb switch on the other hand. Must more comfortable for coding than groping for all those keys with your pinky.)

Finnucane 7y ago

This is making me miss the Northgate Omnikey keyboard I had 30 years ago.

mdip 7y ago
I think every one of my comments has mentioned this keyboard. IMO, it's the best keyboard that was ever made and I'm seriously considering buying one on ebay (along with all of the stuff required to plug it in to current hardware).

unixhero 7y ago

This wacky and fun chemistry PhD reviews keyboards. His reviews are highly relevant for this thread: https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22 https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mdip 7y ago

I just saw one of these on Craigslist. I used one of these for years at my first "real job" and loved it, but wow is it noisy. In the 90s, my dad and I built custom (higher-end) PCs for small businesses and individuals. We carefully weeded out parts that we didn't like and put a high priority on excellent displays[1], good keyboards and mice[2]. To this day, I'm surprised at how little thought is paid to such a critical input device. And it's not that users don't care about it, it's almost like it was forgotten. My personal preference, in this category, though was the Northgate Omnikey[0]. It was a multi-platform keyboard that was able to be plugged in to an AT/XT, Amiga and a few others. The model I had was left-oriented F-keys (I miss that!) and included extra keys and tools so that you could put the CTRL where "Caps Lock" was, and "alt" where the left CTRL was, which was how we configured them ... no more accidental CAPS LOCK hits when aiming for "A". Unfortunately, my parents sold it in an estate sale a while back. I doubt they got anywhere near the $100-$200 that these sell for when functional (depending on condition ... most are very yellow due to the plastic oxidizing but you can still find some that maintain their gray-white/blue color). Pretty rare to find a keyboard that resells for about the price they were new (sans inflation). I'd put the IBM at a very close second. The Northgate was easily on par as far as "feel" was concerned, but the IBM keyboards had this loud "ping" sound that sort-of rang after a key was pressed (springs), which the Omnikey lacked. I couldn't own a keyboard like that if I wanted to continue programming since, at the time, most of my programming[4] was done between midnight and 3:00 AM with fleeting parental approval (fleeting ... if I woke them up). I feel that keyboard quality is something that manufacturers have missed the ball on -- especially on notebooks. This Christmas I picked out a Thinkpad for my parents. They love it. My Dad now wants a new desktop keyboard, though, because he really likes the Thinkpad keyboard. I was a little puzzled -- his current board feels exactly the same to my fingers. After thinking about it for a bit, I'm fairly certain I know where the problem is: despite the same feel, his desktop keyboard weighs almost nothing. Every time you touch a key, or even reach out for it, it slides a little. So every few sentences, you're re-positioning the keyboard. At my typing speed, this means repositioning the keyboard constantly. It makes me wonder if in all of this effort to make things lighter and more portable, the industry miscalculated by applying that logic to peripheral keyboards. I'd prefer my keyboard to weight twice as much as my current laptop. To me, I'd rather have a keyboard heavier than a notebook PC. Between the two I use most regularly, one is wired, the other is wireless, both would move with a reasonable gust of wind. Why do I care if it's convenient to carry when it never leaves my desktop? There's much greater value is in it staying put while I use it. At my office, several developers I work with have purchased their own keyboards. Some of it is "cool factor", but one thing I found consistently about the boards they've chosen -- All of them weigh in at 3 times the weight of the typical $15 board and most have sticky rubber feet. About half hadn't realized the difference until I pointed it out. I even had one co-worker that got upset at the realization -- he'd narrowed the choice down to 2 keyboards and opted for the lighter one. I made him unhappy with his decision. Oops! [0] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Northgate_OmniKey/101 https://deskthority.net/wiki/Northgate_OmniKey/101 [1] I can't remember the brand, but nearly every computer monitor was XGA 14"; we only sold 16+" and went with Trinitron models and models with similar technology (at the time, I think Sony had an active patent on the technology, but we had quality issues so we switched to a different brand that I assume didn't work exactly like the Trinitron, but still had the color clarity). [2] We never found a mouse worth a damn -- we experimented with an early model of ball-free mice, but it was trash. [3] I'm sure there's an intelligent, technical, term for that but I don't care to search for it. [4] I was writing a BBS from scratch in Borland/Turbo Pascal after deciding to toss out the code from my Telegard hack. I've actually tried to revisit that using SSH as transport (instead of dial-up) but ran out of motivation.

ljm 7y ago

I love these keyboards (and mechanical keyboards in general; the tactility and sensitivity is so satisfying). I just wish there was a silent option that wasn't still loud as fuck. The main problem is that noise isolating/cancelling cans won't protect you from the clackety-clack, which for a lot of people can be as infuriating as listening to someone eating loudly.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Back in the 80s when everyone in the office was using one, no one apparently cared or noticed the noise. Though we didn't have everyone hiding behind cans and there was often a bit of a coffee shop lite buzz of background chatter. I think everyone got over sensitive about it as we all hide behind a playlist.
- DanBC 7y ago
  Wasn't the noise damped somewhat by offices or cubicles and solid desks?
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Hmm, heavier desks may have contributed, but at least in my early career I've not had an office -- it was usually 4-8 people per room.
- bsder 7y ago
  > Back in the 80s when everyone in the office was using one, no one apparently cared or noticed the noise. Remember what the alternative was back then ... a bunch of people using typewriters. Compared to typewriters these keyboards are a massive improvement in noise.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    True, though I was more thinking of the computing context, where what went before might have been a VT100 or 52, maybe a Wyse or IBM.

mdip 7y ago

Somewhat topic-adjacent -- I'm looking at getting a new keyboard. In my early 20s, I used this specific keyboard and while I liked it (as my other comment points out), it's super loud. Does anyone make a heavy mechanical keyboard with F-Keys on the left any longer? It is a whole lot easier to land on the right F-key without looking down when they're vertical on the left (just like it's easier to hit all the numbers accurately on a number-pad vs. the top row). Being able to one-hand CTRL/ALT+F-keys accurately, without looking, is somewhere between difficult and impossible on modern keyboard designs. The keyboard I grew up on, the Northgate Omnikey, was heavy, had left-oriented F-Keys, and included replacement key caps for CTRL, ALT and CAPS LOCK (along with a tool to remove the keys!) so that you could put CTRL where CAPS LOCK typically is and ALT where CTRL typically is. It also had corresponding DIP switches that controlled whether the keyboard sent CTRL or CAPS LOCK from that position, so no monkeying around with driver software or OS configuration to make your keyboard behave the way that the key caps indicated. Are any of you using a board like this which is either USB or PS/2 and has been manufactured in the last 5 years (or is still produced, new, today)?

cptnapalm 7y ago
Unicomp makes one: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A It will be gloriously clickity clackety.

YZF 7y ago

The history in the video doesn't ring quite right. The heritage of the PS/2 keyboard also relate to mainframe terminals (3270 and maybe 5250) which predate the IBM PC and to the original IBM/AT keyboard which predates the PS/2. Presumably some of those have electric typewriter heritage as well. I also think some of those older keyboards were nicer than the PS/2 IMNHO.

hazeii 7y ago

To me (and it seems very much a personal opinion) not having an F-key array on the left - as on the original AT keyboards - was one of the biggest losses made during keyboard evolution. Depends on the software in use of course, but being able to hit a modifier (Ctrl, Shift, Alt) and an F-key without stretching is the reason I still use the old-style layout to this day.

skocznymroczny 7y ago

I've been on a mechanical keyboard adventure, and I realized most of them are not for me. I don't have any nostalgia for the 80s keyboards, and I can't stand tall keys anymore. I am using a low-profile mechanical keyboard (Havit KB390L) and it's the only mechanical keyboard that is usable for me. However, it's likely my next keyboard will be scissor switch again. I will probably go for Logitech MX Keys, seems to be the best option for premium scissor switch keyboards.

jakear 7y ago
I agree, it’s very difficult to go from my MBP butterfly keys to a mechanical. On top of the enormous amount of travel required, I also would be forced to use a mouse (or external trackpad), which is so much slower than having the touchpad at my thumbs at all times. Right now, I type quickly on the keyboard, and any time I need to use the pointer all that’s required is a slight rotation of my right hand. Compare that to all the mechanical keyboard folks in my office, who also type quickly, but every cursor interaction is a movement of their entire arm. I don’t understand how they’re okay with that. Anyone know of a nice low profile mechanical with a built in trackpad?
- dlevine 7y ago
  Unicomp makes a version that has a built in trackpoint and mouse buttons. Haven't used it, though.
  - toast0 7y ago
    I've read that the trackpoint in the M13s (including the Unicomps) are one of the earlier designs, and trackpoint enthusiasts prefer the newer versions. That's as far as I went down that rabbit hole.
- skocznymroczny 7y ago
  I'd love to have a butterfly keyboard for my desktop. Unfortunately there aren't any and it's not the best time for butterfly keyboards right now because of reputation for being faulty.

sleepybrett 7y ago

to hell with the M.. my heart still lives with the F. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/

ChuckMcM 7y ago

I have an M13 made in 1994 by Lexmark. It is distinguished by having the track point built into the keyboard. I do prefer its feel over that of 'modern' mechanical keyboards.

myrandomcomment 7y ago

I still have a Model M attached to an older system that I use for playing with different Linux distos on. The date stamp on the back says "28Nov88". Today my is keyboard is a Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless (Japanese). I also have the Flico "Genuine Wood" wrist rest. I ordered replacement keycaps to match MacOS vs the default Windows keys (any replaced the Caplocks with Ctrl, the way God intended it!). I have one on the desk at home and work. The feeling is not quite as good as the Model M but it works well. Switches are Cherry Brown (45g). The Model M is 70g IIRC. If you are looking for a keyboard, Filco is worth trying. If you live in Japan any of the big tech shops (Bic, etc) will have a ton on display with different switches you can try out. When I worked at IBM way back when, keyboards were a "green tagged" part vs. a "red tagged part". Green = order as many as you want with no accounting/reason for doing so. Red parts had to be accounted for (the $$$ stuff).

znpy 7y ago

Uh... I remember I saw that video in advance on Floatplane (https://www.floatplane.com/ https://www.floatplane.com/) and decided to get an EnduraPro (Basically a ModelM + Trackpoint) from Unicomp. I've used it for a while but then decided to put it away. Two big problems: 1. The trackpoint moves the cursor to the left just right, but it hits a key when moving to the right. Basically it's super fast to move in one direction and super-slow in the opposite. It got me crazy. 2. The keys are immensely loud. Duh. I was expecting loud keys, but I didn't expect that much loud. I am not kidding here: i decided to finally put away the keyboard when, while typing on an afternoon, I hit the Enter key a bit harder than usual and somehow I got pain in my right ear. I am not sure if this was due to some vibration traveling back through my right arm or just from noise, but man that did not feel good at all. Oh... did I mention that thing is FUING MASSIVE? It's HEAVY. HEAVY AS FK. One of the Model-M disadvantages (that also affects a lot of mechanical keyboards, but no one seems to care, apparenly) is that the key plane is raised from where your palm usually rests, and the angle the key forms is not negligible. One could probably get some kind of wrist strain by using it all the day everyday. And don't even get me started on the mess I had to do to have it shipped to europe... I have settled on an IBM SK-8845 keyboard at work and a ThinkPad USB (x220-style) keyboard at home. They're both quieter, the trackpoint works a lot better (the sk-8845 even has the touchpad), they're flatter and they both have a very comfortable palmrest. In the end, I don't completely regret buying the endura pro but I wouldn't buy it again.

thelazydogsback 7y ago

On a related note, I just came across this: https://www.amazon.com/Freewrite-Distraction-Free-Typewriter-Frontlight-Mechanical/dp/B01GGE8CP8/ref=sr_1_54 https://www.amazon.com/Freewrite-Distraction-Free-Typewriter... Looks like a good TRS-80 Model 100 replacement for writers. Although perhaps a bit too anachronistic as you can apparently only backspace!