9 ms·

I use Chrome OS daily to do my job and I think it is fantastic. IMO it is the ultimate work machine for your average knowledge worker. At my company, all the

I use Chrome OS daily to do my job and I think it is fantastic. IMO it is the ultimate work machine for your average knowledge worker. At my company, all the software that we use is web-based (SaaS), with the exception of software engineers, who are using local tools to develop web based applications. For non-engineers, the OS provides an extremely simple client to use to do their job. The OS is a slightly better web browsing experience than the Mac, and since all you need to do your job is a browser, it works great. The OS presents your google drive cleanly as a local filesystem, so you can even avoid any local storage completely. The OS is security-first, and is far more resistant to malware than a Mac or Windows machine. For engineers, you get all of the above and a well functioning linux distribution on which you can build software. Since everything we deploy is on linux, it's closer to our production environment than the mac. The best part of the experience is how the cloud oriented nature of the OS lets me treat my laptops like cattle rather than pets. If you lose your device, just grab another one. All your stuff is up in the cloud. Strange bug? just power wash the machine and start over. I also think that journalists or hobbyists may have a hard time appreciating the OS. Yes, it is terrible at things like video editing, games, audio editing, etc. But for a work machine in an enterprise environment, it's fantastic.

derefr 7y ago
> At my company, all the software that we use is web-based (SaaS), with the exception of software engineers, who are using local tools to develop web based applications. And interestingly, Google has a clear "complementary solution" to ChromeOS for software-engineering use cases: Google Cloud Shell (https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/ https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/), which gives you a "personal POSIX environment as web-app." I feel like ChromeOS and GCP have an obvious idiomatic relationship to them, sort of like Windows and Azure do.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ghaff 7y ago
I increasingly travel with a ChromeBook. There's very little on my MacBook that I have to run locally and I find that GSuite works pretty well offline. (And that's where a lot of my files would be even if I were carrying a full laptop.) Yes, ChromeBooks make you somewhat more dependent on networks. But, truth be told, I'm not getting a lot done other than reading or maybe writing if I don't have a network connection anyway whatever device I'm carrying. There's not much I do day-to-day on my laptop that requires anything other than a browser.
reaperducer 7y ago
I love your pets vs. cattle analogy. I hope I remember that. But I think this is key: But for a work machine in an enterprise environment, it's fantastic You're using it as a thin client, and that's great; it works for you. But outside of a controlled environment, ChromeOS becomes less and less useful, especially as connectivity deteriorates or becomes less predictable. To continue with your analogy — the pets will find their way home. Once the cattle are off the ranch, they're gone.
- tracker1 7y ago
  If you have a network connection, https and sound logins, I'm not sure how it's less useful outside the controlled environment?
  - tonyarkles 7y ago
    > especially as connectivity deteriorates or becomes less predictable That's exactly the situation I have for about half of my computing: if I'm not at my home office, I'm either at a coffee shop, on-site with a client, or at one of my rural properties. In all three cases, who knows what I'm going to have as far as reliable Internet goes? With Windows/OSX/Linux, the majority of things will work with spotty Internet (although that too is sadly becoming less true over time)
- gimboland 7y ago
  More on where "pets vs cattle" comes from: http://cloudscaling.com/blog/cloud-computing/the-history-of-pets-vs-cattle/ http://cloudscaling.com/blog/cloud-computing/the-history-of-...
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
> Yes, it is terrible at things like video editing, games, audio editing, etc. But for a work machine in an enterprise environment, it's fantastic. Unless it runs Excel, that seems unlikely to apply to the enterprise in general.
- tracker1 7y ago
  The Office 365's Excel online is pretty usable. I'm on Linux at home, so use it quite a bit... there's a couple sheets I have to use and interact with others on.
- andrewmutz 7y ago
  Microsoft Excel has a web-based version and Google Sheets is pretty good. So unless your enterprise needs spreadsheet features that those don't have, it's fine.
  - freeone3000 7y ago
    Which are: VSTO plugins, pivot tables, equation editing, database connectivity, import-from-file, document protection, ... The list goes on. Excel on web is not at feature parity with Excel on desktop.
    - derefr 7y ago
      The real answer that already exists to "having a thin client with native Excel" is to stand up a Windows Server instance with Excel installed and a Citrix gateway, and have your thin clients connect to it. My bank does it.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    The kinds of people who rely on Excel to do their job assure me that Google Sheets is not even remotely sufficient and the web-based Excel isn't quite there either.
stiray 7y ago
Well as a work machine in enterprise environment you want to have data under your own control and Google not even fails to deliver, but it is increasing security risk for your data (corporate espionage on USA government level is just one thing that comes to my mind). I have shown this post to a few security guys and they had quite a good laugh. I personally wouldn't use it even if it was free. But I don't live or work in states, maybe google is ok for USA companies.
- watermelon0 7y ago
  Now more than ever, businesses are moving everything to the cloud. Unless you are big enough to afford sysadmins, netsec and other knowledgeable personnel, your data is safer at big cloud providers, than in your own hands. Even if you have all that at your disposal, it's probably still safer (and more reliable) there, unless: a) you actually have to worry about espionage from Google and various governments, b) you cannot legally use them (I think some health/financial data under GDPR cannot be hosted outside of the EU), or c) you are doing something illegal. GSuite and GCP are ISO/SOC/HIPAA/etc. compliant, so if there is a breach on their side, you are legally covered. Not necessarily my opinion on cloud vs self-hosting, but it makes sense from a business perspective.
zouhair 7y ago
I don't think relying on a third party and especially one that is as fickle as Google to do the most basic workload is a sound idea. I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future, as they killed a lot of stuff already[0]. I don't trust Google anymore. [0]: https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/
- dontblink 7y ago
  Honestly this trope is tiring. FUD.
  - hylaride 7y ago
    FUD is exactly what it is, with good reason given Google’s habits with “poorly” performing products lately. Mind you, in chromeOS’s case it’s easy to go back to a regular computer.
  - zouhair 7y ago
    How is it FUD? They literally keep killing years old projects. A lot of those project had a lot of regular users that added them to their workload for years just for Google to scrap them with no alternative. How one can trust them is beyond me. Then there is horror stories like this one[0] [0]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWaz7ofl5wQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWaz7ofl5wQ
  - steego 7y ago
    You might be tired of it, but what it underscores is that Google has developed a reputation for creating experiments and killing them off when they no longer serves Google's purpose. It reminds Google's users that they're not customers, but proverbial farm animals whose attention is being auctioned off to advertisers. I get why they need to kill off products. I took a few minutes to look through https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/ and there are a lot of fleeting, gimmicky things on that list that should have never been released in the first place. Google has an image problem with this. By releasing all these unfocused products into the wild, they've signaled that they will create unfocused products and kill off the ones that aren't hugely successful. Now when they launch a new idea, people are no longer excited, but legitimately suspicious. When Google launched Allo and Duo at the same time (while Hangouts still existed), it sent a clear message that they really didn't care about product management and continuity or communicating to their users. They would rather be the ADD company that built 3 competing things and measure usage than to nurture and improve already successful products. People don't like having the rug pulled out from under them and the repetition of this trope will continue to echo so long as it resonates with readers. Even if it's FUD, this is a big problem for Google. I don't think Chrome OS will be on this list anytime soon, but if something shinier comes around, can you honestly tell me Google won't drop Chrome OS for the shinier thing?
3xblah 7y ago
"All your stuff is up in the cloud." What happens if the knowledge worker loses their connection to the "cloud".
- dbbk 7y ago
  If I had no internet connection at my job at a tech startup I could literally do nothing.
- c_s_guy 7y ago
  As in a temporary loss? It's been a while since I've used this, but I believe some of those services support an "Offline Mode". Not perfect, but it's something.
- brunoTbear 7y ago
  ChromeOS has offline support for docs editing. Everywhere, even airplanes, have reliable wifi these days. Connections to the cloud are only becoming more reliable. Your take is FUD and old.
lowdose 7y ago
I second this 100%. But this needs to be advocated more. Yesterday on a trending ask HN question how to prevent technology scams for family members I recommended a chromebook. But every negative windows os comment gets downvoted so hard that it left me 0 points at the bottom. Ask HN How do you protect your parents against tech scammers? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21934736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21934736 My answer: > Give them a chromebook. No virus scanner or firewall needed. It's 2020 and the "Personal Computer" paradigm is past its expiration date. Want to keep hobbying with Windows and manage your "PC" like a pet, good luck with that! Hardware should be managed like cattle with a cloud native setup if you ask me. Racehorse owners loose 90 cent on every dollar invested, cowboys fly helicopters.
- stevenwliao 7y ago
  There's a direct link at the "x days ago" timestamp: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21935330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21935330
- gamblor956 7y ago
  I upgraded my mom to Windows 10 last year, with automatic updates, and she hasn't had any computer issues since then. As a bonus, I don't have to worry about whether Google's ambivalence will eventually make the computer useless.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jiofih 7y ago
Is Google Drive faster in Chromebooks? The web version makes me want to rip my hair out.
zelly 7y ago
> lets me treat my laptops like cattle rather than pets. If you lose your device, just grab another one. All your stuff is up in the cloud. Strange bug? just power wash the machine and start over. This is my argument for - Nix or Guix as my main package manager - having daily backups--encrypted and stored off-site I don't want to rent my right to use a computer.
terminaljunkid 7y ago
I feel if google had brought android to desktop, with terminal and all, it would be a good developer experience and also nice for normal user. There's sandboxing, it requires less and less maintenance than other OSes and UI is quite intuitive. Plus all the google integration. Sure some of people here do not like google integration. But in a practical world, it solves many problems to normal people. And android the OS is really better than what people seem to think.
signal11 7y ago
I have a Chromebook myself and the situation is much less rosy than you describe. It's not all bad, and I'd definitely like to continue to use a Chromebook as a secondary system if possible. But I'd also hate it if it was my only machine. I'd also shrug my shoulders if I could no longer use a Chromebook, e.g. if it was discontinued. A big issue with ChromeOS is its only browser, Chrome. Google has repeatedly demonstrated it's willing to put its ad-tech interests ahead of user demands (reader mode, good adblocking). Yes, you can enable Linux support and install Firefox. A very small number of ChromeOS users will do so, if they're even allowed to. Note that Linux support is beta and comes with a lot of known issues. For organizations that support Linux, there are better routes to getting Linux into their engineers' hands. The cloud-oriented nature of the laptop is sort of secondary. Dumb terminals have always had a place in the enterprise, for so-called 'tethered' users. It's entirely unsurprising that Chromebooks are similarly popular, they're better designed than most dumb terminals, and the BeyondCorp (zero-trust) approach to security is a good one. > journalists or hobbyists may have a hard time appreciating the OS While there are scenarios (e.g. travel) where Chromebook may be useful for journalists, journalists who need to keep their sources secret would be particularly ill-served by Chromebooks. People who're working on stuff that competes with Google (or indeed Microsoft, as Office 365 also works on Chromebook via web/Android), may also worry. In short, if you're a 'tethered' user at work and could conceivably use a Wyse thin client, Chromebooks are great and probably superior to most other dumb terminals.
ckrailo 7y ago
I have to respectfully disagree on the "well-functioning" adjective attached to their linux container system. Comparing Windows 10 WSL Ubuntu (default), Termux on a Pixel phone, and Debian (default) on a Pixel Slate... the slate is the worst. It renders text worse than the pixel phone and has about as much runtime capability as Termux on Android. Windows 10 WSL2 is going to be even better. Every OS can be treated like cattle now. Games are in the cloud (Steam), package managers exist for every OS (homebrew, linuxbrew, chocolate) and installed-software manifests can be backed up to GitHub. It took Google years to add basic backup to its Linux system, and if you've customized the text settings for the console then ChromeOS is still not like cattle and you will have more setup to do. (Termux is a phenomenal project. So glad it exists.)

derefr 7y ago

> At my company, all the software that we use is web-based (SaaS), with the exception of software engineers, who are using local tools to develop web based applications. And interestingly, Google has a clear "complementary solution" to ChromeOS for software-engineering use cases: Google Cloud Shell (https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/ https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/), which gives you a "personal POSIX environment as web-app." I feel like ChromeOS and GCP have an obvious idiomatic relationship to them, sort of like Windows and Azure do.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ghaff 7y ago

I increasingly travel with a ChromeBook. There's very little on my MacBook that I have to run locally and I find that GSuite works pretty well offline. (And that's where a lot of my files would be even if I were carrying a full laptop.) Yes, ChromeBooks make you somewhat more dependent on networks. But, truth be told, I'm not getting a lot done other than reading or maybe writing if I don't have a network connection anyway whatever device I'm carrying. There's not much I do day-to-day on my laptop that requires anything other than a browser.

reaperducer 7y ago

I love your pets vs. cattle analogy. I hope I remember that. But I think this is key: But for a work machine in an enterprise environment, it's fantastic You're using it as a thin client, and that's great; it works for you. But outside of a controlled environment, ChromeOS becomes less and less useful, especially as connectivity deteriorates or becomes less predictable. To continue with your analogy — the pets will find their way home. Once the cattle are off the ranch, they're gone.

tracker1 7y ago
If you have a network connection, https and sound logins, I'm not sure how it's less useful outside the controlled environment?
- tonyarkles 7y ago
  > especially as connectivity deteriorates or becomes less predictable That's exactly the situation I have for about half of my computing: if I'm not at my home office, I'm either at a coffee shop, on-site with a client, or at one of my rural properties. In all three cases, who knows what I'm going to have as far as reliable Internet goes? With Windows/OSX/Linux, the majority of things will work with spotty Internet (although that too is sadly becoming less true over time)
gimboland 7y ago
More on where "pets vs cattle" comes from: http://cloudscaling.com/blog/cloud-computing/the-history-of-pets-vs-cattle/ http://cloudscaling.com/blog/cloud-computing/the-history-of-...

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

> Yes, it is terrible at things like video editing, games, audio editing, etc. But for a work machine in an enterprise environment, it's fantastic. Unless it runs Excel, that seems unlikely to apply to the enterprise in general.

tracker1 7y ago
The Office 365's Excel online is pretty usable. I'm on Linux at home, so use it quite a bit... there's a couple sheets I have to use and interact with others on.
andrewmutz 7y ago
Microsoft Excel has a web-based version and Google Sheets is pretty good. So unless your enterprise needs spreadsheet features that those don't have, it's fine.
- freeone3000 7y ago
  Which are: VSTO plugins, pivot tables, equation editing, database connectivity, import-from-file, document protection, ... The list goes on. Excel on web is not at feature parity with Excel on desktop.
  - derefr 7y ago
    The real answer that already exists to "having a thin client with native Excel" is to stand up a Windows Server instance with Excel installed and a Citrix gateway, and have your thin clients connect to it. My bank does it.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  The kinds of people who rely on Excel to do their job assure me that Google Sheets is not even remotely sufficient and the web-based Excel isn't quite there either.

stiray 7y ago

Well as a work machine in enterprise environment you want to have data under your own control and Google not even fails to deliver, but it is increasing security risk for your data (corporate espionage on USA government level is just one thing that comes to my mind). I have shown this post to a few security guys and they had quite a good laugh. I personally wouldn't use it even if it was free. But I don't live or work in states, maybe google is ok for USA companies.

watermelon0 7y ago
Now more than ever, businesses are moving everything to the cloud. Unless you are big enough to afford sysadmins, netsec and other knowledgeable personnel, your data is safer at big cloud providers, than in your own hands. Even if you have all that at your disposal, it's probably still safer (and more reliable) there, unless: a) you actually have to worry about espionage from Google and various governments, b) you cannot legally use them (I think some health/financial data under GDPR cannot be hosted outside of the EU), or c) you are doing something illegal. GSuite and GCP are ISO/SOC/HIPAA/etc. compliant, so if there is a breach on their side, you are legally covered. Not necessarily my opinion on cloud vs self-hosting, but it makes sense from a business perspective.

zouhair 7y ago

I don't think relying on a third party and especially one that is as fickle as Google to do the most basic workload is a sound idea. I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future, as they killed a lot of stuff already[0]. I don't trust Google anymore. [0]: https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/

dontblink 7y ago
Honestly this trope is tiring. FUD.
- hylaride 7y ago
  FUD is exactly what it is, with good reason given Google’s habits with “poorly” performing products lately. Mind you, in chromeOS’s case it’s easy to go back to a regular computer.
- zouhair 7y ago
  How is it FUD? They literally keep killing years old projects. A lot of those project had a lot of regular users that added them to their workload for years just for Google to scrap them with no alternative. How one can trust them is beyond me. Then there is horror stories like this one[0] [0]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWaz7ofl5wQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWaz7ofl5wQ
- steego 7y ago
  You might be tired of it, but what it underscores is that Google has developed a reputation for creating experiments and killing them off when they no longer serves Google's purpose. It reminds Google's users that they're not customers, but proverbial farm animals whose attention is being auctioned off to advertisers. I get why they need to kill off products. I took a few minutes to look through https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/ and there are a lot of fleeting, gimmicky things on that list that should have never been released in the first place. Google has an image problem with this. By releasing all these unfocused products into the wild, they've signaled that they will create unfocused products and kill off the ones that aren't hugely successful. Now when they launch a new idea, people are no longer excited, but legitimately suspicious. When Google launched Allo and Duo at the same time (while Hangouts still existed), it sent a clear message that they really didn't care about product management and continuity or communicating to their users. They would rather be the ADD company that built 3 competing things and measure usage than to nurture and improve already successful products. People don't like having the rug pulled out from under them and the repetition of this trope will continue to echo so long as it resonates with readers. Even if it's FUD, this is a big problem for Google. I don't think Chrome OS will be on this list anytime soon, but if something shinier comes around, can you honestly tell me Google won't drop Chrome OS for the shinier thing?

3xblah 7y ago

"All your stuff is up in the cloud." What happens if the knowledge worker loses their connection to the "cloud".

dbbk 7y ago
If I had no internet connection at my job at a tech startup I could literally do nothing.
c_s_guy 7y ago
As in a temporary loss? It's been a while since I've used this, but I believe some of those services support an "Offline Mode". Not perfect, but it's something.
brunoTbear 7y ago
ChromeOS has offline support for docs editing. Everywhere, even airplanes, have reliable wifi these days. Connections to the cloud are only becoming more reliable. Your take is FUD and old.

lowdose 7y ago

I second this 100%. But this needs to be advocated more. Yesterday on a trending ask HN question how to prevent technology scams for family members I recommended a chromebook. But every negative windows os comment gets downvoted so hard that it left me 0 points at the bottom. Ask HN How do you protect your parents against tech scammers? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21934736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21934736 My answer: > Give them a chromebook. No virus scanner or firewall needed. It's 2020 and the "Personal Computer" paradigm is past its expiration date. Want to keep hobbying with Windows and manage your "PC" like a pet, good luck with that! Hardware should be managed like cattle with a cloud native setup if you ask me. Racehorse owners loose 90 cent on every dollar invested, cowboys fly helicopters.

stevenwliao 7y ago
There's a direct link at the "x days ago" timestamp: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21935330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21935330
gamblor956 7y ago
I upgraded my mom to Windows 10 last year, with automatic updates, and she hasn't had any computer issues since then. As a bonus, I don't have to worry about whether Google's ambivalence will eventually make the computer useless.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jiofih 7y ago

Is Google Drive faster in Chromebooks? The web version makes me want to rip my hair out.

zelly 7y ago

> lets me treat my laptops like cattle rather than pets. If you lose your device, just grab another one. All your stuff is up in the cloud. Strange bug? just power wash the machine and start over. This is my argument for - Nix or Guix as my main package manager - having daily backups--encrypted and stored off-site I don't want to rent my right to use a computer.

terminaljunkid 7y ago

I feel if google had brought android to desktop, with terminal and all, it would be a good developer experience and also nice for normal user. There's sandboxing, it requires less and less maintenance than other OSes and UI is quite intuitive. Plus all the google integration. Sure some of people here do not like google integration. But in a practical world, it solves many problems to normal people. And android the OS is really better than what people seem to think.

signal11 7y ago

I have a Chromebook myself and the situation is much less rosy than you describe. It's not all bad, and I'd definitely like to continue to use a Chromebook as a secondary system if possible. But I'd also hate it if it was my only machine. I'd also shrug my shoulders if I could no longer use a Chromebook, e.g. if it was discontinued. A big issue with ChromeOS is its only browser, Chrome. Google has repeatedly demonstrated it's willing to put its ad-tech interests ahead of user demands (reader mode, good adblocking). Yes, you can enable Linux support and install Firefox. A very small number of ChromeOS users will do so, if they're even allowed to. Note that Linux support is beta and comes with a lot of known issues. For organizations that support Linux, there are better routes to getting Linux into their engineers' hands. The cloud-oriented nature of the laptop is sort of secondary. Dumb terminals have always had a place in the enterprise, for so-called 'tethered' users. It's entirely unsurprising that Chromebooks are similarly popular, they're better designed than most dumb terminals, and the BeyondCorp (zero-trust) approach to security is a good one. > journalists or hobbyists may have a hard time appreciating the OS While there are scenarios (e.g. travel) where Chromebook may be useful for journalists, journalists who need to keep their sources secret would be particularly ill-served by Chromebooks. People who're working on stuff that competes with Google (or indeed Microsoft, as Office 365 also works on Chromebook via web/Android), may also worry. In short, if you're a 'tethered' user at work and could conceivably use a Wyse thin client, Chromebooks are great and probably superior to most other dumb terminals.

ckrailo 7y ago

I have to respectfully disagree on the "well-functioning" adjective attached to their linux container system. Comparing Windows 10 WSL Ubuntu (default), Termux on a Pixel phone, and Debian (default) on a Pixel Slate... the slate is the worst. It renders text worse than the pixel phone and has about as much runtime capability as Termux on Android. Windows 10 WSL2 is going to be even better. Every OS can be treated like cattle now. Games are in the cloud (Steam), package managers exist for every OS (homebrew, linuxbrew, chocolate) and installed-software manifests can be backed up to GitHub. It took Google years to add basic backup to its Linux system, and if you've customized the text settings for the console then ChromeOS is still not like cattle and you will have more setup to do. (Termux is a phenomenal project. So glad it exists.)