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I love my Model 3. Yes, its "luxury" is not up to the price. Sure, the customer service sucks. Yeah, repairs take a long time. But for me, when I ride in a Te

I love my Model 3. Yes, its "luxury" is not up to the price. Sure, the customer service sucks. Yeah, repairs take a long time. But for me, when I ride in a Tesla, I get a giddy feeling, like the first time I held an iPhone. You just know it's the future. There are so many radical, bold, and correct ideas. Every time I get a software update I'm a kid on Christmas morning. It is just such a fun experience, and for those of you who love to be on the bleeding edge, you'd probably love it too. It's not a car for everyone but I get the same feeling about Tesla as I did about Apple when they came out with the iPhone. 8 years later and no company has managed to come up with a car that seriously competes with the 2012 Model S. Tesla was the first to market and remains the market leader. They've solidified their position in the minds of Americans. They have a grand vision and they're executing on it. This company is headed to the moon.

oblio 7y ago
> But for me, when I ride in a Tesla, I get a giddy feeling, like the first time I held an iPhone. You just know it's the future. There are so many radical, bold, and correct ideas. Every time I get a software update I'm a kid on Christmas morning. It is just such a fun experience, and for those of you who love to be on the bleeding edge, you'd probably love it too. I'd love to agree with you, but the thing is, with a car the "bleeding edge" can literally be a bleeding edge. A phone can do comparatively much less harm. Even ones with high radiation levels and batteries exploding didn't do much harm, all things considered. An out of control car... that's another thing entirely.
- xvector 7y ago
  > with a car the "bleeding edge" can literally be a bleeding edge. And that's precisely why I used the term "bleeding edge" :) But more with regards to the support/repair experience, and less with regards to safety. I think Teslas on the road today are relatively safe. You have idiots using Autopilot incorrectly, but you have to go through a fair amount of effort to abuse Autopilot. The car handles phenomenally and performs well in crash tests. I haven't really seen cases of "out of control Teslas" - at least, nothing suggesting an anomaly compared to other manufacturers.
- igrekel 7y ago
  Other cars get software updates too, just you need to go to the dealership to get them. And they are not exempt of bugs either, but its just more trouble to have them fixed.
  - steelframe 7y ago
    > Other cars get software updates too, just you need to go to the dealership to get them. Not in every case. The past two software updates I've gotten for my I-PACE have been over-the-air. In fact they installed while I was driving the car without interrupting anything.
    - igrekel 7y ago
      I didn't know they did that. Would be really nice if it became widespread.
  - briffle 7y ago
    My dealership wants to charge me $330 to do software updates to several components in my pickup that will fix some bugs, since its out of its bumper to bumper warranty.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    I know for a fact based on prior employment that other OEMs have the capability and infrastructure in place to implement OTA updates. I don't know why they don't since as a vendor we weren't privy to those kinds of business decisions and I assume they have their reasons. The infrastructure mostly gets used for telemetry (drive-train related stuff so they can decide what they can and can't skimp on) at present.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  I’m curious... what kind of car do you drive? I’d like to look up the safety data.
  - oblio 7y ago
    Volvo V40.
    - brewdad 7y ago
      It's a shame Volvo hasn't brought that car to the US for almost a decade. I may consider the new XC40 electric when it arrives over here.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  The only "out of control" Teslas I've heard about are people misusing autopilot. I could engage the cruise control in my 2011 VW Scirocco and drive straight into a concrete barrier, I don't see any material difference. In fact I'd imagine that this is happening all over the world on a pretty much daily basis but we don't hear about it because it's not Tesla.
  - yumraj 7y ago
    The difference is, using your example, on Tesla it's called Autopilot, while on the VW Scirocco it's called cruise control. Naming makes a very big difference in how people perceive and use things.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
lotsofpulp 7y ago
I would consider a Tesla if it offered CarPlay. And I would prefer tactile controls instead of that hideous tablet.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  You're not looking for a Tesla based on your criteria. Tactile controls are antithetical to updating the UX with software updates. It doesn't appear either complaint is inhibiting sales.
  - nordsieck 7y ago
    > Tactile controls are antithetical to updating the UX with software updates. Tesla already has some tactile controls - they're on the steering wheel. I think people are just asking for more of them. If Tesla continued along in the same vein, a few more software defined controls wouldn't hurt UX updates at all - they would just give users more options for the UX functions they use most often. > It doesn't appear either complaint is inhibiting sales. People buy cars as entire units, they don't buy features piecemeal. I could just as easily claim Tesla is selling cars in spite of its dearth of tactile controls.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      This is the opposite direction Tesla is moving though. The last few updates have drastically improved voice commands (with some hiccups; an update or two actually made them worse). It is unlikely Tesla will increase the number of software defined physical controls in the vehicle, just my two cents.
- antidaily 7y ago
  Well, I have a Ford Explorer and CarPlay and the Ford UI are all touchscreen. And a smaller one than my 3. That said, I miss CarPlay for Messages (recently added to Tesla but not as good) and better Spotify controls (how exactly is Tesla sorting albums?). I guess Waze, too.
null_turkey 7y ago
I have been driving my model 3 for a year now and I don't think I can go back to a gas car, a car that doesn't receive OTA updates, or a car that doesn't have a driving assistant similar to Autopilot. I'm happy that a new car company is challenging the rest of the auto industry on what a car should be and forcing them to drastically improve their products rather than incremental changes every year. Now we are seeing new car companies pop up ( Rivian ) that are following Tesla's footsteps. It is all very exciting to me.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  Your comment made me think of a very important data point: what percentage of people who get an electric car (or just make it Tesla specific) would ever consider owning an ICE car again? I'm hoping it would be very low. I own a Chevy Volt, and I know I'll never own a non-electric car again. Yes, I know my car has a gas engine, but I almost never use it (it is still very handy to keep me from having "range anxiety"), and honestly when it does switch on it just reminds me how I never want to own a pure-ICE car again.
  - SEJeff 7y ago
    I think it is the little things. One of my family members drove up to see me recently and I let them park in my garage. I was blown away when I walked into the garage with the smell of oil and gas. Granted, their car is an early 90s corolla, but still. Then I worried about oil leaking and put down a drip mat. The thought of owning an ICE vehicle after owning a Tesla Model 3 for a year (Nov 2018 is when we took delivery) just does not sound appetizing whatsoever. My wife, who was originally a skeptic, is the one that suggested we sell our 2011 Ford Fiesta after purchasing the Tesla.
    - newnewpdro 7y ago
      > suggested we sell our 2011 Ford Fiesta after purchasing the Tesla It's a Ford Fiesta, you're not saying much here.
      - 7y ago
antidaily 7y ago
Yeah, remember Blackberry users telling you your iPhone 3gs wasn't a "business phone"?
- tyingq 7y ago
  They did have a point at the time. Exchange integration and MDM wasn't great. Apple is still somewhat uncommitted to the "enterprise" market, though it's reached "good enough" now.
charliemil4 7y ago
I really want to agree with you — and I do to some extent, but I’ll counter with what made the iPhone: It did a cell phone absolutely right. - Visual Voicemail; Full internet browser; Music player; Fluid, Threaded SMS conversations; Contacts that looked like contacts ... For every phone use case, the iPhone delivered a sense of “Finally!” The Tesla experience had that aura to me when they pitched the battery swap technology — that’s when you said, “holy hell, they nailed it” However that was dropped, and all other releases have felt lumpy and pumpy. The only thing I believe we all truly love is the acceleration... and really, that wasn’t a “product first” choice, just an attribute of the electric technology. I really want Tesla to be successful — they just don’t know who they are.
- chrisstanchak 7y ago
  Do you own one?
  - charliemil4 7y ago
    Don’t own a vehicle — have driven and “been driven” by one
- tdhz77 7y ago
  Interesting that we compare Tesla to Apple. We don't know who they (Tesla) are because the normal thinking is that they are a car company. I would consider them in competition with Uber/Waymo/etc moreso than in competition with Ford. There auto summons is something I've not seen in any other car. The ability to detect street signs, cones, people, bikes, etc via visualizations is impressive considering they are using just cameras. They are a technology compnany, and there platform is a car not your phone.
rkochman 7y ago
This is exactly why I want one, and I’ve been close to ordering a Model 3 several times now. But it seems like each time, I hear a horror story from a friend with a Tesla: random stuff breaking, bad service experiences, weird behaviors. Just last month a coworker had the brakes fail on her day-old Model 3. I bought a used Nissan Leaf 3 years ago and haven’t had a single thing go wrong with it. I’m afraid to give up the reliability of a more conventional car to drive “the future.” It is telling, however, that pretty much everyone I know with a Tesla (including the ones who have had problems) love it and don’t regret their decision to buy it.
- jm4 7y ago
  That stuff happens. It happens with other cars too. A few problems here and there, mediocre service and still being (subjectively) the best car in the world are not mutually exclusive. I had to take mine in for service twice - once for a flat tire near a service center and the other time for a cracked windshield - and it was a mixed bag. The tire replacement experience was horrendous. The windshield replacement was easy. Their customer service isn’t great. The people I’ve interacted with are very friendly, but they never seem very knowledgeable and they all seem new. If you ever have to call, you end up being sent in circles. But then there are all the other things that make the whole experience unlike any other car. I could go on all day. I’ve driven an EV before my Tesla and I went back to a gas car after less than 2 years. There is no other car in the world at any price point that I would rather drive than a Tesla. It’s hard to understand until you’ve had some experience driving one. There are so many little details than add up to a driving experience that is significantly less effort than in any other car.
- tardo99 7y ago
  I have a used 2015 Nissan Leaf that I bought last year. No problems at all with it. It cost $8000. Can Tesla do that?
steelframe 7y ago
> 8 years later and no company has managed to come up with a car that seriously competes with the 2012 Model S. Elon tweeted something to this effect earlier in 2019, and people have sort of lapped that up as an irrefutable statement. It's not. The statement only makes sense if your only dimension for evaluating competitiveness is raw range, perhaps indexed by price. This is only because no reputable long-range EV manufacturer is exposing the full battery capacity to the consumer. Tesla throws power tools out to the general public and says, "If you use it wrong, it's on you. Don't suck." Other manufacturers take a more conservative approach. The result? Sometimes habitually overcharged Tesla battery packs take a nose dive. Sometimes people Smart Summon their cars into posts. Sometimes people on AP smash into fire trucks. "Well, you're holding it wrong" is Tesla's answer when that happens, absolving themselves of responsibility for inducing or encouraging those behaviors in perniciously subtle ways. This is not something to celebrate. Raw range aside (achieved by said battery capacity exposure), the Taycan's drivetrain puts out more power, both one-time and on a repeated basis, than any Tesla drivetrain. The 2019 I-PACE offers a luxury interior and more range than an equivalently-priced 2019 Model X, along with CarPlay and Android Auto. The 2019 e-tron (given its ~20% battery buffer held back) is only about 10% less efficient than a 2019 Model X, but it also has a superior interior as well as excellent road noise isolation. In 2019 Electrify America has averaged a new site a day. Non-Tesla EVs can now use that charging network to get pretty much anywhere a Tesla EV can get using their proprietary supercharging network. The rest of the market is not as far behind Tesla as a lot of pundits would have you believe, and in many ways competitors are actually ahead. Continuing with the iPhone analogy, in ten years we could very well find the EV industry looking like the smartphone industry today, where Apple still makes very good smartphones with a respectable user base while a variety of Android phones command the bulk of the market share.
- strathos 7y ago
  I'm playing with the idea of buying an electric car as my next car. Due to that I'm following quite bit what's happening, sites like Electrek and Teslarati, and a Finnish youtuber called "Tesla Joni" who make sort of "every day" videos about living with Tesla Model 3. So yeah, there starts to be competition. VAG is bringing ID.3, Polestar will start selling their 2, Ford is bringing the so-called Mustang and even BMW will have EVs that look more or less normal cars. Still all of those are not as interesting as Tesla. I now drive a SEAT Leon which I bought as new 3 years ago. It has been in normal service twice and zero updates to software. Nothing to infotainment, nothing to engine, nothing to electronics. And when buying the car I didn't even think things like that. But now when following what Tesla does, it's a completely different way of owning a car. Like xvector wrote here already getting a new software upgrade is super nice for the car owner. The same is visible in fore mentioned Tesla Joni's videos. Now when thinking about the "real" car manufacturers like VAG, BMW, Mercedes and Polestar, I'm pretty sure they will sell you the car and that's it. I'm especially concerned with Polestar as the software is coming from Google - 5 years and it will be listed in killedbygoogle.com. And that's why the Apple analogy is so fitting. No matter what you think about iPhone, iPad or Macs, they are being supported much longer than any other manufacturer does. My 2013 iPad Air is still getting regular OTA updates, even though it will not get the new iPadOS.
Chris_Chambers 7y ago
The only way this comment could be more cringe is if you weren’t paid by Tesla to post it.
gkfasdfasdf 7y ago
> 8 years later and no company has managed to come up with a car that seriously competes with the 2012 Model S. Tesla was the first to market and remains the market leader. I actually worry about this. Tesla is the scrappy underdog for now and thus they are really innovating - but what happens when traditional automakers start going bankrupt because they aren't keeping up with the change over to EV? I wouldn't want a Tesla monopoly either.
- altacc 7y ago
  The other manufacturers are catching up, so there is a chance that it'll be the other way round. Here in Norway, many people buy an electric car as a second car, with many preferring something cheaper than a Tesla. Tesla still tops the sales tables, in part due to the massive tax benefits. If in 5 to 10 years time the legacy manufacturers can compete on both the low and high end, and win on reliability, customer service & manufacturing scale, then they'll easily give Tesla a run for their money.
- cma 7y ago
  Imagine each car brand had their own mutually incompatible proprietary gas station network.
  - gkfasdfasdf 7y ago
    I mean we have adapters now that allow Teslas to charge at non-Tesla points. More generally though I think comparisons between charging stations and gas stations are almost always invalid for a few reasons. First is that charging stations have the potential to be ubiquitous in a way that would be impossible for gas stations. I.e. you don't need to bury giant tanks in the ground and have a complex fire suppression system in order to charge an EV, rather you can get started with just an electric outlet. Second is that for many people, charging overnight at home is sufficient to get you through the day. I.e. a charging station is only necessary for trips that are more than a couple hundred miles, which is only a small fraction.
    - cma 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
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_wzsf 7y ago
This thread is already essentially 100% Tesla marketing, both for the cars and for the stock, but maybe you'll read this comment and acknowledge there's nothing false in it. Thanks in advance to the Tesla cult for the downvotes! [1] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/sudden-loss-of-range-with-2019-16-x-software.154976/page-157 https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/sudden-loss-of-range... [2] https://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/17892/tesla-driver-slams-into-fire-truck-at-65-mph-blames-autopilot https://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/17892/tesla-driver-slams... [3] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/back-to-the-old-ping-pong-days.178849/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/back-to-the-old-ping... > Every time I get a software update I'm a kid on Christmas morning. It is just such a fun experience, and for those of you who love to be on the bleeding edge, you'd probably love it too. Same! I too get giddily excited when my $100,000 car gets software updates from an $80B company that can't design batteries properly and has to remotely reduce their capacities by 30% and charge rates by 40% (without my permission!) to prevent the car from catching on fire in my garage! [1] /s It's so encouraging to see my self-driving car get frequent half-baked updates making it drive into highway barriers and firetrucks [2] and ping-pong between lane lines like a drunk driver! [3] /s I just wish Apple could do the same downgrade to my phone's CPU and battery performance whenever they feel like it! It'd bring tears to my eyes, in awe of their power over me. /s
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >Thanks in advance to the Tesla cult for the downvotes! In one of the (many) depositions, it was revealed that Tesla has some serious PR firms on retainer to control narrative. You can see on Twitter bot networks of accounts tweeting the exact same message. Tesla understands modern marketing.
- xvector 7y ago
  Yes, Tesla has not been a paragon of good. I never claimed or excused this. I am specifically talking about my experience with the Model 3. I have enjoyed my time with it and I’ve enjoyed my updates. It’s been great fun. That’s all.
  - _wzsf 7y ago
whalesalad 7y ago
I’ve driven an S but not a 3. It was certainly pretty shocking to floor it at first. As for the 3, I don’t think I could get behind the central mono display, but perhaps I should take one for a drive based on your experience. The cockpit in my current car, a Mustang GT, is pretty stellar. It’s got the performance pack so it comes with an oil pressure and vacuum gauge on the dash. Between that and the center display showing me tire pressures (can see the PSI of each corner) or oil temperature and I’m golden. https://rallyways.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/new_2015_mustang_interior.jpg https://rallyways.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/new_2015_mu... It’s very driver focused. You’re low in the car and the central tunnel is very high so you feel like you’re in a tank. Anyway... the same giddy feelings you have when you drive your Model 3 are similar to the feelings I have when I drive this thing. The V8 revving to 7k is sublime, especially when the moisture is high in the air and the exhaust really starts to crackle and pop. I’m not against EV vehicles by any means. I think they are awesome and will certainly own one at some point. But for a while I’m gonna keep playing with my physical switches and gauges. Beating the hell out of a high revving motor with a six speed will never get old.
- rconti 7y ago
  I don't consider everything in the car feeling "high" to be a positive. If anything, the high beltline in modern cars is a huge drawback. And it has nothing to do with driver focus. The rear deck and door sills on our model 3 are ridiculously high but the view out the front is amazing, like a Porsche or better. Super low dash, low fenders, you're looking on the road RIGHT in front of you. Not 20 feet down the road past a long high hood. OTOH, in my track car (BMW M Coupe) I can actually see out the rear and sides.
- glofish 7y ago
  > Beating the hell out of a high revving motor You really lost me there. What's a noise got to do with anything - to see how silly it is, just put on speakers and turn on a revving sound. Or get an electric vehicle the generates a revving sound (inside your vehicle preferably to others) - so now tell me what's the revving sound do?
  - 7y ago
robomartin 7y ago
I wonder how you might feel about your car if you are caught in the middle of an emergency (earthquake, fire, take your pick) and your car has 60 miles if range left, you are at work and have to drive home and evacuate your family. We were planning and ready to buy two Tesla’s this year. The first one in April, when my wife’s car lease expires and the second around September. We even installed a 13 kW solar array and n preparation. Now we have exactly zero interest in the segment. What changed our minds? The last fire season here in CA. It became obvious to us that owning any electric vehicle, given the state of the technology and infrastructure, could be dangerous. The technology is not well aligned with real-life events that require a significant degree of reliance on self transport. We absolutely want to own electrics but feel we could not rely on these vehicles when it really matters. That’s a moment when driving the future could cost you and your loved ones the future.
- mullen 7y ago
  FUD > I wonder how you might feel about your car if you are caught in the middle of an emergency (earthquake, fire, take your pick) and your car has 60 miles of gas left, you are at work and have to drive home and evacuate your family. 60 miles of gas or 60 miles of electrical range in an emergency is all the same, you are SOL. At least with an electrical car I can plug in every night and be assured that I will have a fully or mostly fully charged car in the morning. With a gas car, I will fill up my car once a week and run down the miles until I need to fill up again. Gas stations need electricity to work and if I can't fully charge my car with electricity, then I sure as hell can't fill it with gas.
  - robomartin 7y ago
    Nope. Very wrong my friend. First of all, unless you are in the middle of nowhere --which is even worse for electric vehicles-- the gasoline distribution infrastructure in every city in the world is such that you are likely to have up to dozens of gasoline stations available to you within a 60 mile radius. Second. Obtaining 300 miles of range takes 5 minutes at the pump. Third. If you are paranoid, you can store 100 to 150 miles of range in a sealed container in the trunk of your car and even thousands of miles in sealed drums at home (a friend of mine did that). Fourth. Obtaining 300 miles or range, even without gasoline station takes a few minutes and short water hose to siphon fuel from other vehicles. One could even pool resources with other drivers to extend the range of one vehicle and help each other out. Fifth. We own three vehicles. We make it a point to keep them fueled at or above half a tank precisely because we live in earthquake and fire country. We can use a water hose to collect fuel from two of our vehicles, pump it into the third and have more enough range to get out. We are not preppers or survivalists at all. No, we don't have a couple of 50 gallon drums of fuel buried in the backyard like our friend. However, our perspective is based on having experienced and lived through at least one major earthquake (Northridge, 1994, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Northridge_earthquake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Northridge_earthquake, lived 1 mile from the epicenter) and several bad fires, two of which encircled our neighborhood. This isn't theory, this is reality. I would have a lot more respect for down-votes if they were accompanied by cogent arguments. As much as we really, truly want to get away from our IC engine cars today, the last fires here in CA drove the point home like nothing else. My wife was stuck away from home for eight hours. I was lucky enough to have been able to get to my kids at school after a 200 mile round-about detour that took six hours. Nothing sharpens an argument more than when you are facing real conditions with real consequences. The flaws of the charging infrastructure are such that you'll find yourself competing with hundreds of other Tesla (or EV) owners. This isn't theoretical, this is real and it has already happened: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7755753/Chaos-California-Tesla-drivers-stranded-hours-half-mile-long-line-charge.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7755753/Chaos-Calif... https://keyt.com/traffic-2/2019/12/27/tesla-drivers-stuck-waiting-4-hrs-at-central-coast-charging-stations-during-holiday-travel/ https://keyt.com/traffic-2/2019/12/27/tesla-drivers-stuck-wa... https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/07/black-friday-tesla-fail-half-a-mile-queue-to-recharge/ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/07/black-friday-tesla-fa... Our local Tesla supercharger station is always packed and people are waiting for a turn. And these were not even emergencies!!! When emergencies strike things are worse, because now we are dealing with potential life-threatening circumstances: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29428694/electric-car-owners-power-shutdown-california/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29428694/electric-car-own... https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/californias-power-outage-demonstrates-biggest-flaw-with-teslas-plan-to-sell-everyone-an-electric-car.html https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/californias-power-outage-demo... It's one thing to be an electric car enthusiast/fanatic and want to defend them at all cost. I it a VERY different thing to be driving home while you see everything on fire at a distance around your neighborhood and you know that your kids, your loved ones and your pets need you to be there for them. Calling this FUD is absolute bullshit. Unless you've had that experience, with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. We wanted to buy electrics this year and the experience surrounding the last fires drove the point home like nothing else. I love electric cars, but the technology and the infrastructure simply isn't ready to deliver the same level of reliance that IC vehicles offer with ease. Which stands to reason, the technology and the infrastructure has been built over more than a century. I applaud early adopters. We were going to be among them. Great plans, to paraphrase, don't always survive contact with reality. If someone actually thinks they can defend the case of electrics being equivalent --I won't even go for better-- to IC vehicles and the infrastructure in place to support them, please speak up, I am more than willing to listen. But please, pretty please, with sugar on top: Don't insult anyone's intelligence or call things FUD when the reality of the differential in technology and infrastructure requires almost walking on water to even remotely approach equivalence.
rconti 7y ago
It's a simply fantastic car. 18 months and 25k miles on ours. Everything else just feels silly. Having to wait for the engine to warm up to get cabin heat. Having to press buttons on keys or remember which driver has the keyfob. Having to stop for gas. The always on/always connected/always ready to go thing is just amazing. Every time I see something else I lust after (RS5, RS6 avant, the XC90 in that pretty blue with the silver mirrors..) ... I just wonder how I could ever spend such an insane amount of money on such an outdated technology.

oblio 7y ago

> But for me, when I ride in a Tesla, I get a giddy feeling, like the first time I held an iPhone. You just know it's the future. There are so many radical, bold, and correct ideas. Every time I get a software update I'm a kid on Christmas morning. It is just such a fun experience, and for those of you who love to be on the bleeding edge, you'd probably love it too. I'd love to agree with you, but the thing is, with a car the "bleeding edge" can literally be a bleeding edge. A phone can do comparatively much less harm. Even ones with high radiation levels and batteries exploding didn't do much harm, all things considered. An out of control car... that's another thing entirely.

xvector 7y ago
> with a car the "bleeding edge" can literally be a bleeding edge. And that's precisely why I used the term "bleeding edge" :) But more with regards to the support/repair experience, and less with regards to safety. I think Teslas on the road today are relatively safe. You have idiots using Autopilot incorrectly, but you have to go through a fair amount of effort to abuse Autopilot. The car handles phenomenally and performs well in crash tests. I haven't really seen cases of "out of control Teslas" - at least, nothing suggesting an anomaly compared to other manufacturers.
igrekel 7y ago
Other cars get software updates too, just you need to go to the dealership to get them. And they are not exempt of bugs either, but its just more trouble to have them fixed.
- steelframe 7y ago
  > Other cars get software updates too, just you need to go to the dealership to get them. Not in every case. The past two software updates I've gotten for my I-PACE have been over-the-air. In fact they installed while I was driving the car without interrupting anything.
  - igrekel 7y ago
    I didn't know they did that. Would be really nice if it became widespread.
- briffle 7y ago
  My dealership wants to charge me $330 to do software updates to several components in my pickup that will fix some bugs, since its out of its bumper to bumper warranty.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  I know for a fact based on prior employment that other OEMs have the capability and infrastructure in place to implement OTA updates. I don't know why they don't since as a vendor we weren't privy to those kinds of business decisions and I assume they have their reasons. The infrastructure mostly gets used for telemetry (drive-train related stuff so they can decide what they can and can't skimp on) at present.
erikpukinskis 7y ago
I’m curious... what kind of car do you drive? I’d like to look up the safety data.
- oblio 7y ago
  Volvo V40.
  - brewdad 7y ago
    It's a shame Volvo hasn't brought that car to the US for almost a decade. I may consider the new XC40 electric when it arrives over here.
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
The only "out of control" Teslas I've heard about are people misusing autopilot. I could engage the cruise control in my 2011 VW Scirocco and drive straight into a concrete barrier, I don't see any material difference. In fact I'd imagine that this is happening all over the world on a pretty much daily basis but we don't hear about it because it's not Tesla.
- yumraj 7y ago
  The difference is, using your example, on Tesla it's called Autopilot, while on the VW Scirocco it's called cruise control. Naming makes a very big difference in how people perceive and use things.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

lotsofpulp 7y ago

I would consider a Tesla if it offered CarPlay. And I would prefer tactile controls instead of that hideous tablet.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
You're not looking for a Tesla based on your criteria. Tactile controls are antithetical to updating the UX with software updates. It doesn't appear either complaint is inhibiting sales.
- nordsieck 7y ago
  > Tactile controls are antithetical to updating the UX with software updates. Tesla already has some tactile controls - they're on the steering wheel. I think people are just asking for more of them. If Tesla continued along in the same vein, a few more software defined controls wouldn't hurt UX updates at all - they would just give users more options for the UX functions they use most often. > It doesn't appear either complaint is inhibiting sales. People buy cars as entire units, they don't buy features piecemeal. I could just as easily claim Tesla is selling cars in spite of its dearth of tactile controls.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    This is the opposite direction Tesla is moving though. The last few updates have drastically improved voice commands (with some hiccups; an update or two actually made them worse). It is unlikely Tesla will increase the number of software defined physical controls in the vehicle, just my two cents.
antidaily 7y ago
Well, I have a Ford Explorer and CarPlay and the Ford UI are all touchscreen. And a smaller one than my 3. That said, I miss CarPlay for Messages (recently added to Tesla but not as good) and better Spotify controls (how exactly is Tesla sorting albums?). I guess Waze, too.

null_turkey 7y ago

I have been driving my model 3 for a year now and I don't think I can go back to a gas car, a car that doesn't receive OTA updates, or a car that doesn't have a driving assistant similar to Autopilot. I'm happy that a new car company is challenging the rest of the auto industry on what a car should be and forcing them to drastically improve their products rather than incremental changes every year. Now we are seeing new car companies pop up ( Rivian ) that are following Tesla's footsteps. It is all very exciting to me.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
Your comment made me think of a very important data point: what percentage of people who get an electric car (or just make it Tesla specific) would ever consider owning an ICE car again? I'm hoping it would be very low. I own a Chevy Volt, and I know I'll never own a non-electric car again. Yes, I know my car has a gas engine, but I almost never use it (it is still very handy to keep me from having "range anxiety"), and honestly when it does switch on it just reminds me how I never want to own a pure-ICE car again.
- SEJeff 7y ago
  I think it is the little things. One of my family members drove up to see me recently and I let them park in my garage. I was blown away when I walked into the garage with the smell of oil and gas. Granted, their car is an early 90s corolla, but still. Then I worried about oil leaking and put down a drip mat. The thought of owning an ICE vehicle after owning a Tesla Model 3 for a year (Nov 2018 is when we took delivery) just does not sound appetizing whatsoever. My wife, who was originally a skeptic, is the one that suggested we sell our 2011 Ford Fiesta after purchasing the Tesla.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    > suggested we sell our 2011 Ford Fiesta after purchasing the Tesla It's a Ford Fiesta, you're not saying much here.
    - 7y ago

antidaily 7y ago

Yeah, remember Blackberry users telling you your iPhone 3gs wasn't a "business phone"?

tyingq 7y ago
They did have a point at the time. Exchange integration and MDM wasn't great. Apple is still somewhat uncommitted to the "enterprise" market, though it's reached "good enough" now.

charliemil4 7y ago

I really want to agree with you — and I do to some extent, but I’ll counter with what made the iPhone: It did a cell phone absolutely right. - Visual Voicemail; Full internet browser; Music player; Fluid, Threaded SMS conversations; Contacts that looked like contacts ... For every phone use case, the iPhone delivered a sense of “Finally!” The Tesla experience had that aura to me when they pitched the battery swap technology — that’s when you said, “holy hell, they nailed it” However that was dropped, and all other releases have felt lumpy and pumpy. The only thing I believe we all truly love is the acceleration... and really, that wasn’t a “product first” choice, just an attribute of the electric technology. I really want Tesla to be successful — they just don’t know who they are.

chrisstanchak 7y ago
Do you own one?
- charliemil4 7y ago
  Don’t own a vehicle — have driven and “been driven” by one
tdhz77 7y ago
Interesting that we compare Tesla to Apple. We don't know who they (Tesla) are because the normal thinking is that they are a car company. I would consider them in competition with Uber/Waymo/etc moreso than in competition with Ford. There auto summons is something I've not seen in any other car. The ability to detect street signs, cones, people, bikes, etc via visualizations is impressive considering they are using just cameras. They are a technology compnany, and there platform is a car not your phone.

rkochman 7y ago

This is exactly why I want one, and I’ve been close to ordering a Model 3 several times now. But it seems like each time, I hear a horror story from a friend with a Tesla: random stuff breaking, bad service experiences, weird behaviors. Just last month a coworker had the brakes fail on her day-old Model 3. I bought a used Nissan Leaf 3 years ago and haven’t had a single thing go wrong with it. I’m afraid to give up the reliability of a more conventional car to drive “the future.” It is telling, however, that pretty much everyone I know with a Tesla (including the ones who have had problems) love it and don’t regret their decision to buy it.

jm4 7y ago
That stuff happens. It happens with other cars too. A few problems here and there, mediocre service and still being (subjectively) the best car in the world are not mutually exclusive. I had to take mine in for service twice - once for a flat tire near a service center and the other time for a cracked windshield - and it was a mixed bag. The tire replacement experience was horrendous. The windshield replacement was easy. Their customer service isn’t great. The people I’ve interacted with are very friendly, but they never seem very knowledgeable and they all seem new. If you ever have to call, you end up being sent in circles. But then there are all the other things that make the whole experience unlike any other car. I could go on all day. I’ve driven an EV before my Tesla and I went back to a gas car after less than 2 years. There is no other car in the world at any price point that I would rather drive than a Tesla. It’s hard to understand until you’ve had some experience driving one. There are so many little details than add up to a driving experience that is significantly less effort than in any other car.
tardo99 7y ago
I have a used 2015 Nissan Leaf that I bought last year. No problems at all with it. It cost $8000. Can Tesla do that?

steelframe 7y ago

> 8 years later and no company has managed to come up with a car that seriously competes with the 2012 Model S. Elon tweeted something to this effect earlier in 2019, and people have sort of lapped that up as an irrefutable statement. It's not. The statement only makes sense if your only dimension for evaluating competitiveness is raw range, perhaps indexed by price. This is only because no reputable long-range EV manufacturer is exposing the full battery capacity to the consumer. Tesla throws power tools out to the general public and says, "If you use it wrong, it's on you. Don't suck." Other manufacturers take a more conservative approach. The result? Sometimes habitually overcharged Tesla battery packs take a nose dive. Sometimes people Smart Summon their cars into posts. Sometimes people on AP smash into fire trucks. "Well, you're holding it wrong" is Tesla's answer when that happens, absolving themselves of responsibility for inducing or encouraging those behaviors in perniciously subtle ways. This is not something to celebrate. Raw range aside (achieved by said battery capacity exposure), the Taycan's drivetrain puts out more power, both one-time and on a repeated basis, than any Tesla drivetrain. The 2019 I-PACE offers a luxury interior and more range than an equivalently-priced 2019 Model X, along with CarPlay and Android Auto. The 2019 e-tron (given its ~20% battery buffer held back) is only about 10% less efficient than a 2019 Model X, but it also has a superior interior as well as excellent road noise isolation. In 2019 Electrify America has averaged a new site a day. Non-Tesla EVs can now use that charging network to get pretty much anywhere a Tesla EV can get using their proprietary supercharging network. The rest of the market is not as far behind Tesla as a lot of pundits would have you believe, and in many ways competitors are actually ahead. Continuing with the iPhone analogy, in ten years we could very well find the EV industry looking like the smartphone industry today, where Apple still makes very good smartphones with a respectable user base while a variety of Android phones command the bulk of the market share.

strathos 7y ago
I'm playing with the idea of buying an electric car as my next car. Due to that I'm following quite bit what's happening, sites like Electrek and Teslarati, and a Finnish youtuber called "Tesla Joni" who make sort of "every day" videos about living with Tesla Model 3. So yeah, there starts to be competition. VAG is bringing ID.3, Polestar will start selling their 2, Ford is bringing the so-called Mustang and even BMW will have EVs that look more or less normal cars. Still all of those are not as interesting as Tesla. I now drive a SEAT Leon which I bought as new 3 years ago. It has been in normal service twice and zero updates to software. Nothing to infotainment, nothing to engine, nothing to electronics. And when buying the car I didn't even think things like that. But now when following what Tesla does, it's a completely different way of owning a car. Like xvector wrote here already getting a new software upgrade is super nice for the car owner. The same is visible in fore mentioned Tesla Joni's videos. Now when thinking about the "real" car manufacturers like VAG, BMW, Mercedes and Polestar, I'm pretty sure they will sell you the car and that's it. I'm especially concerned with Polestar as the software is coming from Google - 5 years and it will be listed in killedbygoogle.com. And that's why the Apple analogy is so fitting. No matter what you think about iPhone, iPad or Macs, they are being supported much longer than any other manufacturer does. My 2013 iPad Air is still getting regular OTA updates, even though it will not get the new iPadOS.

Chris_Chambers 7y ago

The only way this comment could be more cringe is if you weren’t paid by Tesla to post it.

gkfasdfasdf 7y ago

> 8 years later and no company has managed to come up with a car that seriously competes with the 2012 Model S. Tesla was the first to market and remains the market leader. I actually worry about this. Tesla is the scrappy underdog for now and thus they are really innovating - but what happens when traditional automakers start going bankrupt because they aren't keeping up with the change over to EV? I wouldn't want a Tesla monopoly either.

altacc 7y ago
The other manufacturers are catching up, so there is a chance that it'll be the other way round. Here in Norway, many people buy an electric car as a second car, with many preferring something cheaper than a Tesla. Tesla still tops the sales tables, in part due to the massive tax benefits. If in 5 to 10 years time the legacy manufacturers can compete on both the low and high end, and win on reliability, customer service & manufacturing scale, then they'll easily give Tesla a run for their money.
cma 7y ago
Imagine each car brand had their own mutually incompatible proprietary gas station network.
- gkfasdfasdf 7y ago
  I mean we have adapters now that allow Teslas to charge at non-Tesla points. More generally though I think comparisons between charging stations and gas stations are almost always invalid for a few reasons. First is that charging stations have the potential to be ubiquitous in a way that would be impossible for gas stations. I.e. you don't need to bury giant tanks in the ground and have a complex fire suppression system in order to charge an EV, rather you can get started with just an electric outlet. Second is that for many people, charging overnight at home is sufficient to get you through the day. I.e. a charging station is only necessary for trips that are more than a couple hundred miles, which is only a small fraction.
  - cma 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

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_wzsf 7y ago

This thread is already essentially 100% Tesla marketing, both for the cars and for the stock, but maybe you'll read this comment and acknowledge there's nothing false in it. Thanks in advance to the Tesla cult for the downvotes! [1] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/sudden-loss-of-range-with-2019-16-x-software.154976/page-157 https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/sudden-loss-of-range... [2] https://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/17892/tesla-driver-slams-into-fire-truck-at-65-mph-blames-autopilot https://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/17892/tesla-driver-slams... [3] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/back-to-the-old-ping-pong-days.178849/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/back-to-the-old-ping... > Every time I get a software update I'm a kid on Christmas morning. It is just such a fun experience, and for those of you who love to be on the bleeding edge, you'd probably love it too. Same! I too get giddily excited when my $100,000 car gets software updates from an $80B company that can't design batteries properly and has to remotely reduce their capacities by 30% and charge rates by 40% (without my permission!) to prevent the car from catching on fire in my garage! [1] /s It's so encouraging to see my self-driving car get frequent half-baked updates making it drive into highway barriers and firetrucks [2] and ping-pong between lane lines like a drunk driver! [3] /s I just wish Apple could do the same downgrade to my phone's CPU and battery performance whenever they feel like it! It'd bring tears to my eyes, in awe of their power over me. /s

aguyfromnb 7y ago
>Thanks in advance to the Tesla cult for the downvotes! In one of the (many) depositions, it was revealed that Tesla has some serious PR firms on retainer to control narrative. You can see on Twitter bot networks of accounts tweeting the exact same message. Tesla understands modern marketing.
xvector 7y ago
Yes, Tesla has not been a paragon of good. I never claimed or excused this. I am specifically talking about my experience with the Model 3. I have enjoyed my time with it and I’ve enjoyed my updates. It’s been great fun. That’s all.
- _wzsf 7y ago

whalesalad 7y ago

I’ve driven an S but not a 3. It was certainly pretty shocking to floor it at first. As for the 3, I don’t think I could get behind the central mono display, but perhaps I should take one for a drive based on your experience. The cockpit in my current car, a Mustang GT, is pretty stellar. It’s got the performance pack so it comes with an oil pressure and vacuum gauge on the dash. Between that and the center display showing me tire pressures (can see the PSI of each corner) or oil temperature and I’m golden. https://rallyways.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/new_2015_mustang_interior.jpg https://rallyways.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/new_2015_mu... It’s very driver focused. You’re low in the car and the central tunnel is very high so you feel like you’re in a tank. Anyway... the same giddy feelings you have when you drive your Model 3 are similar to the feelings I have when I drive this thing. The V8 revving to 7k is sublime, especially when the moisture is high in the air and the exhaust really starts to crackle and pop. I’m not against EV vehicles by any means. I think they are awesome and will certainly own one at some point. But for a while I’m gonna keep playing with my physical switches and gauges. Beating the hell out of a high revving motor with a six speed will never get old.

rconti 7y ago
I don't consider everything in the car feeling "high" to be a positive. If anything, the high beltline in modern cars is a huge drawback. And it has nothing to do with driver focus. The rear deck and door sills on our model 3 are ridiculously high but the view out the front is amazing, like a Porsche or better. Super low dash, low fenders, you're looking on the road RIGHT in front of you. Not 20 feet down the road past a long high hood. OTOH, in my track car (BMW M Coupe) I can actually see out the rear and sides.
glofish 7y ago
> Beating the hell out of a high revving motor You really lost me there. What's a noise got to do with anything - to see how silly it is, just put on speakers and turn on a revving sound. Or get an electric vehicle the generates a revving sound (inside your vehicle preferably to others) - so now tell me what's the revving sound do?
- 7y ago

robomartin 7y ago

I wonder how you might feel about your car if you are caught in the middle of an emergency (earthquake, fire, take your pick) and your car has 60 miles if range left, you are at work and have to drive home and evacuate your family. We were planning and ready to buy two Tesla’s this year. The first one in April, when my wife’s car lease expires and the second around September. We even installed a 13 kW solar array and n preparation. Now we have exactly zero interest in the segment. What changed our minds? The last fire season here in CA. It became obvious to us that owning any electric vehicle, given the state of the technology and infrastructure, could be dangerous. The technology is not well aligned with real-life events that require a significant degree of reliance on self transport. We absolutely want to own electrics but feel we could not rely on these vehicles when it really matters. That’s a moment when driving the future could cost you and your loved ones the future.

mullen 7y ago
FUD > I wonder how you might feel about your car if you are caught in the middle of an emergency (earthquake, fire, take your pick) and your car has 60 miles of gas left, you are at work and have to drive home and evacuate your family. 60 miles of gas or 60 miles of electrical range in an emergency is all the same, you are SOL. At least with an electrical car I can plug in every night and be assured that I will have a fully or mostly fully charged car in the morning. With a gas car, I will fill up my car once a week and run down the miles until I need to fill up again. Gas stations need electricity to work and if I can't fully charge my car with electricity, then I sure as hell can't fill it with gas.
- robomartin 7y ago
  Nope. Very wrong my friend. First of all, unless you are in the middle of nowhere --which is even worse for electric vehicles-- the gasoline distribution infrastructure in every city in the world is such that you are likely to have up to dozens of gasoline stations available to you within a 60 mile radius. Second. Obtaining 300 miles of range takes 5 minutes at the pump. Third. If you are paranoid, you can store 100 to 150 miles of range in a sealed container in the trunk of your car and even thousands of miles in sealed drums at home (a friend of mine did that). Fourth. Obtaining 300 miles or range, even without gasoline station takes a few minutes and short water hose to siphon fuel from other vehicles. One could even pool resources with other drivers to extend the range of one vehicle and help each other out. Fifth. We own three vehicles. We make it a point to keep them fueled at or above half a tank precisely because we live in earthquake and fire country. We can use a water hose to collect fuel from two of our vehicles, pump it into the third and have more enough range to get out. We are not preppers or survivalists at all. No, we don't have a couple of 50 gallon drums of fuel buried in the backyard like our friend. However, our perspective is based on having experienced and lived through at least one major earthquake (Northridge, 1994, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Northridge_earthquake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Northridge_earthquake, lived 1 mile from the epicenter) and several bad fires, two of which encircled our neighborhood. This isn't theory, this is reality. I would have a lot more respect for down-votes if they were accompanied by cogent arguments. As much as we really, truly want to get away from our IC engine cars today, the last fires here in CA drove the point home like nothing else. My wife was stuck away from home for eight hours. I was lucky enough to have been able to get to my kids at school after a 200 mile round-about detour that took six hours. Nothing sharpens an argument more than when you are facing real conditions with real consequences. The flaws of the charging infrastructure are such that you'll find yourself competing with hundreds of other Tesla (or EV) owners. This isn't theoretical, this is real and it has already happened: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7755753/Chaos-California-Tesla-drivers-stranded-hours-half-mile-long-line-charge.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7755753/Chaos-Calif... https://keyt.com/traffic-2/2019/12/27/tesla-drivers-stuck-waiting-4-hrs-at-central-coast-charging-stations-during-holiday-travel/ https://keyt.com/traffic-2/2019/12/27/tesla-drivers-stuck-wa... https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/07/black-friday-tesla-fail-half-a-mile-queue-to-recharge/ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/07/black-friday-tesla-fa... Our local Tesla supercharger station is always packed and people are waiting for a turn. And these were not even emergencies!!! When emergencies strike things are worse, because now we are dealing with potential life-threatening circumstances: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29428694/electric-car-owners-power-shutdown-california/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29428694/electric-car-own... https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/californias-power-outage-demonstrates-biggest-flaw-with-teslas-plan-to-sell-everyone-an-electric-car.html https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/californias-power-outage-demo... It's one thing to be an electric car enthusiast/fanatic and want to defend them at all cost. I it a VERY different thing to be driving home while you see everything on fire at a distance around your neighborhood and you know that your kids, your loved ones and your pets need you to be there for them. Calling this FUD is absolute bullshit. Unless you've had that experience, with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. We wanted to buy electrics this year and the experience surrounding the last fires drove the point home like nothing else. I love electric cars, but the technology and the infrastructure simply isn't ready to deliver the same level of reliance that IC vehicles offer with ease. Which stands to reason, the technology and the infrastructure has been built over more than a century. I applaud early adopters. We were going to be among them. Great plans, to paraphrase, don't always survive contact with reality. If someone actually thinks they can defend the case of electrics being equivalent --I won't even go for better-- to IC vehicles and the infrastructure in place to support them, please speak up, I am more than willing to listen. But please, pretty please, with sugar on top: Don't insult anyone's intelligence or call things FUD when the reality of the differential in technology and infrastructure requires almost walking on water to even remotely approach equivalence.

rconti 7y ago

It's a simply fantastic car. 18 months and 25k miles on ours. Everything else just feels silly. Having to wait for the engine to warm up to get cabin heat. Having to press buttons on keys or remember which driver has the keyfob. Having to stop for gas. The always on/always connected/always ready to go thing is just amazing. Every time I see something else I lust after (RS5, RS6 avant, the XC90 in that pretty blue with the silver mirrors..) ... I just wonder how I could ever spend such an insane amount of money on such an outdated technology.