4 ms·

The GPS thing is unlikely, what would be the rationale of that? This would be a very unpopular policy.

by RivieraKid 7y ago

criddell 7y ago
The rationale is taxation. As more cars go electric they have to replace the gasoline tax.
- aquaticsunset 7y ago
  What country is this intended to be in? I can see it, possibly, happening in more forward minded societies... but certainly not the United States. If anything because there’s no way in hell they can cost effectively retrofit the vast amount of old vehicles we all tend to drive here.
  - criddell 7y ago
    If I had to implement it, I’d do a two stage system. If you install a tracker you pay ten cents per mile. If you don’t have a tracker you have to report mileage every year and pay twelve cents per mile plus a $40 processing fee.
  - dmurray 7y ago
    The cash for clunkers program paid $4k to everyone with an old car. A couple of hundred dollars for GPS trackers (and transmitters, which is presumably what is meant) seems well within the collective budget of all parties who pay for cars in the US.
- hanniabu 7y ago
  I would think it should be the other way around where gas cars would need to pay carbon tax. Or we can just call it even. Or in a hopeful scenario, stop oil and gas subsidies.
  - rad_gruchalski 7y ago
    Depending on location, we already pay carbon taxes. In gasoline, tax on the new car, green sticker for being able to drive into low emission zones. Electric cars have none of that, yet they contribute heavily. For example by using electricity produced from coal. It’s just that the owner does not see the emissions.
  - imtringued 7y ago
    In a lot of countries the gas tax makes up 5% or more of the total tax income.
  - candiodari 7y ago
    In most of the world, gasoline is mostly tax already. The US is an exception. E.g. in the Netherlands the "raw" price of gasoline (a few months back) was 0.61 euro/liter to that, add 0.6 gasoline tax and then add VAT, to come to the price at the pump (pump costs + profits come are included in the 0.61 raw price) of 1.46 euro/liter. So about 58% of the cost of fuel is tax. This is ignoring various other taxes that have to be paid, such as foreign taxes on the gasoline, profit tax, company tax, transport tax, road tax, approval tax, vat on the vehicle you're powering, ... All those taxes are either included in the raw gasoline price or are paid separately by the customers. So let's minimize that and say that 70% of the cost of gasoline really funds government (though not necessarily the local one), and should be considered tax (I do believe it'd be closer to 80% if you went really deep). Now of course, a number of those taxes are implemented on electric vehicles as well. There's no way the government is going to let that tax income lower when it starts eating into their budget, so there will be some sort of tax, probably doubling the price of electric vehicles in the next 10 years or so. And this is tax. It doesn't matter that you're not doing anything negative to the environment. Already the government is taxing companies generating their own electricity (the Netherlands) in various ways, and they're talking about taxing people who cut their grid connection.
tjoff 7y ago
That ship has already sailed. In Europe all new cars, since 2018, must be able to automatically call emergency services and provide GPS coordinates in the case of a collision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall
SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
> The GPS thing is unlikely How so? Why would a new car not come with GPS navigation on the dash? Why would a new car not come with a data connection? These are commodities, your phone has them.
mymythisisthis 7y ago
Not everything is done for a rational choice, or even moderately good reasoning. Insurance companies what to know where you drive, when, and have a dashcam video if you get into an accident. Government want to experiment with different forms of taxation. Police and courts want to track people convicted of crimes. Employers want to know that their company car is being used responsibly. Car companies get sued for making fast cars, start to install GPS for liability. Municipalities want to fine/tax speeders. Cars that are on lease can be tracked and shut down remotely if payments stop. All these reasons start to add up.
Spooky23 7y ago
Taxes and demand based tolls.
streblo 7y ago
If you ride a rented scooter from e.g. Lime or Bird, your GPS location is being streamed in real-time to many of the departments of transportation in the cities in which they operate[1][2]. It's not a quantum leap to assume cars will follow, especially if they're autonomously operated by some central service, doubly so if they're rented (e.g. from Uber) and not individually owned. 1. https://slate.com/business/2019/04/scooter-data-cities-mds-uber-lyft-los-angeles.html https://slate.com/business/2019/04/scooter-data-cities-mds-u... 2. https://blog.remix.com/mds-gbfs-and-how-cities-can-ask-for-data-from-micromobility-providers-7957ca639f16 https://blog.remix.com/mds-gbfs-and-how-cities-can-ask-for-d...

The GPS thing is unlikely, what would be the rationale of that? This would be a very unpopular policy.

criddell 7y ago

The rationale is taxation. As more cars go electric they have to replace the gasoline tax.

aquaticsunset 7y ago
What country is this intended to be in? I can see it, possibly, happening in more forward minded societies... but certainly not the United States. If anything because there’s no way in hell they can cost effectively retrofit the vast amount of old vehicles we all tend to drive here.
- criddell 7y ago
  If I had to implement it, I’d do a two stage system. If you install a tracker you pay ten cents per mile. If you don’t have a tracker you have to report mileage every year and pay twelve cents per mile plus a $40 processing fee.
- dmurray 7y ago
  The cash for clunkers program paid $4k to everyone with an old car. A couple of hundred dollars for GPS trackers (and transmitters, which is presumably what is meant) seems well within the collective budget of all parties who pay for cars in the US.
hanniabu 7y ago
I would think it should be the other way around where gas cars would need to pay carbon tax. Or we can just call it even. Or in a hopeful scenario, stop oil and gas subsidies.
- rad_gruchalski 7y ago
  Depending on location, we already pay carbon taxes. In gasoline, tax on the new car, green sticker for being able to drive into low emission zones. Electric cars have none of that, yet they contribute heavily. For example by using electricity produced from coal. It’s just that the owner does not see the emissions.
- imtringued 7y ago
  In a lot of countries the gas tax makes up 5% or more of the total tax income.
- candiodari 7y ago
  In most of the world, gasoline is mostly tax already. The US is an exception. E.g. in the Netherlands the "raw" price of gasoline (a few months back) was 0.61 euro/liter to that, add 0.6 gasoline tax and then add VAT, to come to the price at the pump (pump costs + profits come are included in the 0.61 raw price) of 1.46 euro/liter. So about 58% of the cost of fuel is tax. This is ignoring various other taxes that have to be paid, such as foreign taxes on the gasoline, profit tax, company tax, transport tax, road tax, approval tax, vat on the vehicle you're powering, ... All those taxes are either included in the raw gasoline price or are paid separately by the customers. So let's minimize that and say that 70% of the cost of gasoline really funds government (though not necessarily the local one), and should be considered tax (I do believe it'd be closer to 80% if you went really deep). Now of course, a number of those taxes are implemented on electric vehicles as well. There's no way the government is going to let that tax income lower when it starts eating into their budget, so there will be some sort of tax, probably doubling the price of electric vehicles in the next 10 years or so. And this is tax. It doesn't matter that you're not doing anything negative to the environment. Already the government is taxing companies generating their own electricity (the Netherlands) in various ways, and they're talking about taxing people who cut their grid connection.

tjoff 7y ago

That ship has already sailed. In Europe all new cars, since 2018, must be able to automatically call emergency services and provide GPS coordinates in the case of a collision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall

SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago

> The GPS thing is unlikely How so? Why would a new car not come with GPS navigation on the dash? Why would a new car not come with a data connection? These are commodities, your phone has them.

mymythisisthis 7y ago

Not everything is done for a rational choice, or even moderately good reasoning. Insurance companies what to know where you drive, when, and have a dashcam video if you get into an accident. Government want to experiment with different forms of taxation. Police and courts want to track people convicted of crimes. Employers want to know that their company car is being used responsibly. Car companies get sued for making fast cars, start to install GPS for liability. Municipalities want to fine/tax speeders. Cars that are on lease can be tracked and shut down remotely if payments stop. All these reasons start to add up.

Spooky23 7y ago

Taxes and demand based tolls.

streblo 7y ago

If you ride a rented scooter from e.g. Lime or Bird, your GPS location is being streamed in real-time to many of the departments of transportation in the cities in which they operate[1][2]. It's not a quantum leap to assume cars will follow, especially if they're autonomously operated by some central service, doubly so if they're rented (e.g. from Uber) and not individually owned. 1. https://slate.com/business/2019/04/scooter-data-cities-mds-uber-lyft-los-angeles.html https://slate.com/business/2019/04/scooter-data-cities-mds-u... 2. https://blog.remix.com/mds-gbfs-and-how-cities-can-ask-for-data-from-micromobility-providers-7957ca639f16 https://blog.remix.com/mds-gbfs-and-how-cities-can-ask-for-d...