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The thing that gets me is electricity is EVERYWHERE in the developed world. There are already libraries and other public places that slap a couple of EV charge

by ijidak 7y ago

The thing that gets me is electricity is EVERYWHERE in the developed world. There are already libraries and other public places that slap a couple of EV chargers in the parking lot. This was never feasible with gasoline. It seems that when EV's are common enough, we may reach a tipping point where EV chargers are as ubiquitous as parking meters and free/paid wifi at current business establishments. Today, a cafe almost can't stay in business without offering WiFi and laptop chargers. The same may happen with EV charging. Also, once EV battery capacity doubles (not far-fetched) the density of chargers will become even less important. And, at that point, ICE cars will be at a staggering disadvantage to EV's, because it easier to put a paid charger in every parking space than it is to expand the ubiquity of gas stations. And it's also harder to boost the range of ICE vehicles.

Thlom 7y ago
There's lots of EV's in Norway, but chargers are not ubiquitous. Yet at least. There's often a few chargers at shopping malls and big public parking lots and so on. Anyway, I have an EV and have never used any public charger. I do all my charging at work (or at home if in a pinch). I assume it's the same for many people.
- TheCoelacanth 7y ago
  EVs are only a bit over 10% of vehicles in Norway (though a majority of new vehicles), and most of those were bought in the past few years. The average vehicle in Norway is 10 years old, when EVs were less than 1% of new vehicles. I don't think that's enough vehicles or a long enough time to see the kind of ubiquity they are talking about. Will be interesting to see in 10 years or so once many of the older ICE vehicles have been taken out of service and electric vehicles are a majority of cars on the road and businesses have had time to adapt to high numbers of EVs.
adventured 7y ago
> Today, a cafe almost can't stay in business without offering WiFi and laptop chargers. The same may happen with EV charging. It certainly will. Every fast-food restaurant in the US and most other countries will have EV chargers in the parking lot, with few exceptions. It'll happen extremely quickly as EVs go mainstream. Roughly 20 years from now I think there will be at least one million charging stations at such commercial locations across the US. McDonald's has five or six dozen charging units in Sweden as one example of the chains being eager to seek a competitive advantage. They've said they intend to blanket their locations in the Netherlands next.
tsss 7y ago
Your analogy is ironic because there is almost no cafes in Germany with free wifi. The telecommunications infrastructure in general is terrible. Even directly in the city center I barely have mobile internet reception and I have doubt that with EV charging stations it will be different, especially with all the corruption coming from the car manufacturing corporations.
buboard 7y ago
there is many uses where charging will be at least problematic. e.g camping away, or doing a road trip, or doing farm work. It's not enough for cafe's to provide chargers, because it's not as if people park right outside businesses, especially in old european towns. i live in an island that is powered by an Oil power plant. it would be bad for the environment to use an electric car, power outages do happen, and the city is old and badly designed so that for the vast majority of people it's not possible to charge at home, they d have to add charging stations on every street. i guess for the tesla's market - which is above average buyers - it is possible to charge easily. or it also happens to be their second car
- ZeroGravitas 7y ago
  Why do you think an EV would be bad for the environment in this island scenario? Oil-burning generation electrical plants should power Evs about 1/3rd more efficiently than an equivalent ICE car. Some comparisons: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/dec/25/how-green-are-electric-cars https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/dec...
  - buboard 7y ago
    Thanks for this, it still shows a rather small benefit, however. I do think that in a few years time electric can become the best choice. The mechanical simplicity alone is worth it
- de_watcher 7y ago
  In Europe you go to a supermarket that has a large parking space. If you can charge there then you basically don't need to charge at home, especially if you also can charge at work.
ThePhysicist 7y ago
Yes it will be good once the infrastructure is there, which will be the case in 5 years I think.

by ijidak 7y ago

Thlom 7y ago

There's lots of EV's in Norway, but chargers are not ubiquitous. Yet at least. There's often a few chargers at shopping malls and big public parking lots and so on. Anyway, I have an EV and have never used any public charger. I do all my charging at work (or at home if in a pinch). I assume it's the same for many people.

TheCoelacanth 7y ago
EVs are only a bit over 10% of vehicles in Norway (though a majority of new vehicles), and most of those were bought in the past few years. The average vehicle in Norway is 10 years old, when EVs were less than 1% of new vehicles. I don't think that's enough vehicles or a long enough time to see the kind of ubiquity they are talking about. Will be interesting to see in 10 years or so once many of the older ICE vehicles have been taken out of service and electric vehicles are a majority of cars on the road and businesses have had time to adapt to high numbers of EVs.

adventured 7y ago

> Today, a cafe almost can't stay in business without offering WiFi and laptop chargers. The same may happen with EV charging. It certainly will. Every fast-food restaurant in the US and most other countries will have EV chargers in the parking lot, with few exceptions. It'll happen extremely quickly as EVs go mainstream. Roughly 20 years from now I think there will be at least one million charging stations at such commercial locations across the US. McDonald's has five or six dozen charging units in Sweden as one example of the chains being eager to seek a competitive advantage. They've said they intend to blanket their locations in the Netherlands next.

tsss 7y ago

Your analogy is ironic because there is almost no cafes in Germany with free wifi. The telecommunications infrastructure in general is terrible. Even directly in the city center I barely have mobile internet reception and I have doubt that with EV charging stations it will be different, especially with all the corruption coming from the car manufacturing corporations.

buboard 7y ago

there is many uses where charging will be at least problematic. e.g camping away, or doing a road trip, or doing farm work. It's not enough for cafe's to provide chargers, because it's not as if people park right outside businesses, especially in old european towns. i live in an island that is powered by an Oil power plant. it would be bad for the environment to use an electric car, power outages do happen, and the city is old and badly designed so that for the vast majority of people it's not possible to charge at home, they d have to add charging stations on every street. i guess for the tesla's market - which is above average buyers - it is possible to charge easily. or it also happens to be their second car

ZeroGravitas 7y ago
Why do you think an EV would be bad for the environment in this island scenario? Oil-burning generation electrical plants should power Evs about 1/3rd more efficiently than an equivalent ICE car. Some comparisons: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/dec/25/how-green-are-electric-cars https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2017/dec...
- buboard 7y ago
  Thanks for this, it still shows a rather small benefit, however. I do think that in a few years time electric can become the best choice. The mechanical simplicity alone is worth it
de_watcher 7y ago
In Europe you go to a supermarket that has a large parking space. If you can charge there then you basically don't need to charge at home, especially if you also can charge at work.

ThePhysicist 7y ago

Yes it will be good once the infrastructure is there, which will be the case in 5 years I think.