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Everything I've read about this case has been in Mint Press. Are we really supposed to consider that "the right-wing blogosphere"? I feel like we're losing some

Everything I've read about this case has been in Mint Press. Are we really supposed to consider that "the right-wing blogosphere"? I feel like we're losing something when words no longer have specific meanings... why would "right-wingers" care more about medical abuse and kidnapping than "left-wingers"? In olden times, advocating for more merciful prison terms was also not considered "right-wing". Is it really different now? I guess at least Gottesfeld hasn't been called "antisemitic" yet... he's no Jeremy Corbyn.

kasey_junk 7y ago
Right now, in this time and place, a news source that has admitted ties to Russia and the Syrian government, is a right wing news source in the States. A weird outcome I agree.
tptacek 7y ago
I have no idea what "Mint Press" is and it is not what I'm referring to when I talk about the right-wing blogosphere ("blogosphere" is the wrong word; whatever the word that captures "online community" is what I'm looking for; Michelle Malkin, who was just booted from YAF(!) for vouching for white supremacist Nick Fuentes, took a picture with Justina Pelletier, and Mike Huckabee wrote an article about it.) I'm neither making up nor projecting the fact that Justine Pelletier is a cause celebré among right-wingers. Incidentally: I'm not casting aspersions (in this instance). Like I said downthread, nobody in this story (except Justina herself) comes out looking good. Justina's parents? Just awful. BCH? Not much better. Of course, nobody looks worse than Martin Gottesfeld.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Justina's parents? Just awful. OK, it's this sort of low-brow dismissal that causes me to actually dig through enough search engine BS to find the "reputable" take. [0] [1] So good job, I guess. I find in those two long articles nothing about the parents' behavior to be even suspect, let alone "awful", let alone worse than BCH. That is a totally unsupported garbage judgment, of the sort one might expect from a neurologist with 7 months of experience assigned to be the lead physician for a child diagnosed with chronic metabolic problems and acute intestinal distress. Oh, wait... that's what happened at BCH! If the intention of the state of Massachusetts is to have fewer juvenile patients traveling from out of state for medical care, their policies are absolutely correct. [0] https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/15/justina/vnwzbbNdiodSD7WDTh6xZI/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/15/justina/vnwzbbN... [1] https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/16/month-medical-ordeal-conclusion-still-uncertain/Y7qvYTGsq8QklkxUZvuUgP/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/16/month-medical-o...
  - tptacek 7y ago
    It's, of course, neither low-brow nor a dismissal, involving as it did me reading a bunch of other sources to get the context of what Brown was talking about --- literally the opposite of what 'pg meant when he coined the term. You don't like what I have to say, but it is fine if we simply disagree. In the Boston Globe story alone, you have the Pelletiers doctor- and hospital- shopping both in Boston and in Connecticut, reported for abuse by their own doctors in Connecticut, yelling at the BCH doctors, being so disruptive during family visits they had to have their visitations curtailed, and, most memorably, threatening to sue the Connecticut facility BCH found to move Justina to, resulting in that facility being unable to accept Justina; in other words, rather than getting Justina back home, her parents prioritized winning some weird argument they felt they were having. Like I said, BCH also doesn't look great in this story.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      "Doctor shopping" is a term invented in order to deprive patients in pain of the medication they need; it has nothing to do with this case. The idiom you may have intended to use is "getting a second opinion". Many good physicians encourage this practice; many poor physicians do not. The yelling about suing the Connecticut facility occurred only after the Connecticut facility was suggested, which was six months into the kidnapping. I'm not surprised the patient and her family weren't so trusting at that time. There were probably financial considerations as well as legal ones to this suggested transfer. A good reporter might have investigated that. I'll stipulate that the family got more emotional than I would in the same situation. However, they didn't get any more emotional than one might expect. Their kid was dying, then they weren't allowed to see their dying kid. Emotional people can go to a mechanic and get their car fixed. They can go to the vet and get their dog fixed. They can go to an accountant and get their taxes done. What is so special about hospital physicians, that they should never have to deal with any emotion other than awestruck adoration? Answer: they're allowed to lock their customers in. The law might support it, but only in an ad hoc, "possession is 9/10" sense. They can tell the state "hey we've already kidnapped this kid and our lawyers are on the case" instead of "you should convince a judge to send armed police to kidnap this kid". That's why big hospitals with lots of lawyers do this sort of thing and smaller facilities don't. Calling these parents "awful" is just consequence-free internet big talking, joined in this case with left-hand/right-hand they-both-have-good-points-who-can-say pretend moderation. Less of that, please.

kasey_junk 7y ago

Right now, in this time and place, a news source that has admitted ties to Russia and the Syrian government, is a right wing news source in the States. A weird outcome I agree.

tptacek 7y ago

I have no idea what "Mint Press" is and it is not what I'm referring to when I talk about the right-wing blogosphere ("blogosphere" is the wrong word; whatever the word that captures "online community" is what I'm looking for; Michelle Malkin, who was just booted from YAF(!) for vouching for white supremacist Nick Fuentes, took a picture with Justina Pelletier, and Mike Huckabee wrote an article about it.) I'm neither making up nor projecting the fact that Justine Pelletier is a cause celebré among right-wingers. Incidentally: I'm not casting aspersions (in this instance). Like I said downthread, nobody in this story (except Justina herself) comes out looking good. Justina's parents? Just awful. BCH? Not much better. Of course, nobody looks worse than Martin Gottesfeld.

jessaustin 7y ago
Justina's parents? Just awful. OK, it's this sort of low-brow dismissal that causes me to actually dig through enough search engine BS to find the "reputable" take. [0] [1] So good job, I guess. I find in those two long articles nothing about the parents' behavior to be even suspect, let alone "awful", let alone worse than BCH. That is a totally unsupported garbage judgment, of the sort one might expect from a neurologist with 7 months of experience assigned to be the lead physician for a child diagnosed with chronic metabolic problems and acute intestinal distress. Oh, wait... that's what happened at BCH! If the intention of the state of Massachusetts is to have fewer juvenile patients traveling from out of state for medical care, their policies are absolutely correct. [0] https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/15/justina/vnwzbbNdiodSD7WDTh6xZI/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/15/justina/vnwzbbN... [1] https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/16/month-medical-ordeal-conclusion-still-uncertain/Y7qvYTGsq8QklkxUZvuUgP/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/16/month-medical-o...
- tptacek 7y ago
  It's, of course, neither low-brow nor a dismissal, involving as it did me reading a bunch of other sources to get the context of what Brown was talking about --- literally the opposite of what 'pg meant when he coined the term. You don't like what I have to say, but it is fine if we simply disagree. In the Boston Globe story alone, you have the Pelletiers doctor- and hospital- shopping both in Boston and in Connecticut, reported for abuse by their own doctors in Connecticut, yelling at the BCH doctors, being so disruptive during family visits they had to have their visitations curtailed, and, most memorably, threatening to sue the Connecticut facility BCH found to move Justina to, resulting in that facility being unable to accept Justina; in other words, rather than getting Justina back home, her parents prioritized winning some weird argument they felt they were having. Like I said, BCH also doesn't look great in this story.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    "Doctor shopping" is a term invented in order to deprive patients in pain of the medication they need; it has nothing to do with this case. The idiom you may have intended to use is "getting a second opinion". Many good physicians encourage this practice; many poor physicians do not. The yelling about suing the Connecticut facility occurred only after the Connecticut facility was suggested, which was six months into the kidnapping. I'm not surprised the patient and her family weren't so trusting at that time. There were probably financial considerations as well as legal ones to this suggested transfer. A good reporter might have investigated that. I'll stipulate that the family got more emotional than I would in the same situation. However, they didn't get any more emotional than one might expect. Their kid was dying, then they weren't allowed to see their dying kid. Emotional people can go to a mechanic and get their car fixed. They can go to the vet and get their dog fixed. They can go to an accountant and get their taxes done. What is so special about hospital physicians, that they should never have to deal with any emotion other than awestruck adoration? Answer: they're allowed to lock their customers in. The law might support it, but only in an ad hoc, "possession is 9/10" sense. They can tell the state "hey we've already kidnapped this kid and our lawyers are on the case" instead of "you should convince a judge to send armed police to kidnap this kid". That's why big hospitals with lots of lawyers do this sort of thing and smaller facilities don't. Calling these parents "awful" is just consequence-free internet big talking, joined in this case with left-hand/right-hand they-both-have-good-points-who-can-say pretend moderation. Less of that, please.