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It's pretty disgusting. Summed up in one of my favorite tweets, which went something like > Gov: you owe us money. It's called taxes > Ctzn: oh ok, how much d

It's pretty disgusting. Summed up in one of my favorite tweets, which went something like > Gov: you owe us money. It's called taxes > Ctzn: oh ok, how much do I owe you? > Gov: you have to figure it out > Ctzn: oh well, then I owe you 0 > Gov: no, no, we know how much you owe, you have to figure it out, and by the way if you get it wrong you go to jail

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
You can have the irs figure out how much you owe if your income is simple enough. This is similar to a lot of countries just taxing you at your income sources and not requiring you to file a return. However, the American system has a lot of deductions, exemptions, status modifiers, etc... so you often need to pay less than that, hence the need for everyone to do tax returns.
nightski 7y ago
You don't go to jail for filing a wrong number accidentally. Only if you are intentionally lying/hiding income. I know people who didn't pay tax FOR THEIR BUSINESS for several years and they settled the debt for much less than they owed and definitely did not go to jail. This is just misinformation.
- roddds 7y ago
  It's called hyperbole.
  - pricees 7y ago
    I think you mean tax evasion. Hyperbole is completely different.
- kmonsen 7y ago
  This is true, but you can be asked to pay gigantic fines. IRS wanted me to pay more than 50k in fine (luckily they were wrong and accepted that right away). So maybe jail is hyperbole, but it can get pretty serious.
  - TheCoelacanth 7y ago
    50k fine or 50k back taxes plus fine?
- SilasX 7y ago
  If that's true, then what's the point of paying business taxes? When the IRS finds out, you just pay less than you would otherwise, and much later.
  - nightski 7y ago
    Having a tax lien on your business is not fun. Neither is going through the settlement process. You also are not guaranteed a settlement and could end up owing the full amount plus interest. At best they let you pay it over time. At worst they take your property and liquidate it. But jail time is unlikely unless you had malicious intent.
Craighead 7y ago
The purposefully vauge summation you provided misses the part where the highly influential people lobbied to be able to associate money as speech, use said speech to funnel external funds into a domestic process of government, and ensure that wealthy oligarchs from around the world can continue to steal from the poor while ensuring the same poor think it's the fault of the government, and thus the cycle continues. You and your tweet are not correct and the purposeful lack of nuance tells me you are commenting in bad faith.
jxramos 7y ago
The thing people misunderstand with the government not being able to figure it out is because there's a huge variety of complexity that is truly individual based. Did you make a contribution to a tax deductible IRA? Did you make a retroactive payment to that account in the following tax calendar year? There's a ton of variables going on here, where the government doesn't have this all-seeing system where everything gets accounted for across the vast array of income sources and employment statuses, dependents, filing status, and all the increments and decrements to those things through time. There's no one central source where all this information is collated and waiting for someone to turn the crank and grind out a number from. Folks have to remember that nothing is implemented by default. The effort to reduce the complexity of the 1040 into 6 new schedules was a great way to factor out those with complicated situations such that the majority of tax payers are oblivious to those nuances. The crux of the matter is that legislators passed into law all these onerous mass of rules to turn various levers to entice and discourage certain things and bite those with progressive tax rates. It is precisely the existence of these rules as to why the government doesn't know what tax valley you land in that huge parameter space. It will not presume to know your specific circumstances but assume that you being aware of your own money and circumstances are in the best position to know these things. At the least one thing I learned is that with tax laws if you have no idea what a thing is it probably in not applicable to you. Needless to say all of this would be much more simple if we just pay a flat tax on all income for all people. Nothing simpler than that.
- tibiahurried 7y ago
  It is almost 2020 and cash should be banned and all transactions should be electronic. Shouldn't that hard for them to figure out how much do I owe in taxes.
- danans 7y ago
  > Needless to say all of this would be much more simple if we just pay a flat tax on all income for all people. Nothing simpler than that. That would be a highly regressive tax system that dramatically transfers even more wealth to the already wealthy. But sure, it's definitely simpler. That doesn't make it better.
jdavis703 7y ago
I forgot to file one of several 1099 forms one year. I got a friendly call from an auditor. He explained what the discrepancy was, how I could appeal if I wanted, and what the payment options were. When I told him I'd take an IRS loan (i.e. a payment plan with interest), he advised me it would be cheaper for me to get a loan from family, friends or the bank. This was about as far from being threatened with prison I've ever been... And believe me I've come pretty close to being arrested (during exercise of my 1st & 4th amendment rights on multiple occasions).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

You can have the irs figure out how much you owe if your income is simple enough. This is similar to a lot of countries just taxing you at your income sources and not requiring you to file a return. However, the American system has a lot of deductions, exemptions, status modifiers, etc... so you often need to pay less than that, hence the need for everyone to do tax returns.

nightski 7y ago

You don't go to jail for filing a wrong number accidentally. Only if you are intentionally lying/hiding income. I know people who didn't pay tax FOR THEIR BUSINESS for several years and they settled the debt for much less than they owed and definitely did not go to jail. This is just misinformation.

roddds 7y ago
It's called hyperbole.
- pricees 7y ago
  I think you mean tax evasion. Hyperbole is completely different.
kmonsen 7y ago
This is true, but you can be asked to pay gigantic fines. IRS wanted me to pay more than 50k in fine (luckily they were wrong and accepted that right away). So maybe jail is hyperbole, but it can get pretty serious.
- TheCoelacanth 7y ago
  50k fine or 50k back taxes plus fine?
SilasX 7y ago
If that's true, then what's the point of paying business taxes? When the IRS finds out, you just pay less than you would otherwise, and much later.
- nightski 7y ago
  Having a tax lien on your business is not fun. Neither is going through the settlement process. You also are not guaranteed a settlement and could end up owing the full amount plus interest. At best they let you pay it over time. At worst they take your property and liquidate it. But jail time is unlikely unless you had malicious intent.

Craighead 7y ago

The purposefully vauge summation you provided misses the part where the highly influential people lobbied to be able to associate money as speech, use said speech to funnel external funds into a domestic process of government, and ensure that wealthy oligarchs from around the world can continue to steal from the poor while ensuring the same poor think it's the fault of the government, and thus the cycle continues. You and your tweet are not correct and the purposeful lack of nuance tells me you are commenting in bad faith.

jxramos 7y ago

The thing people misunderstand with the government not being able to figure it out is because there's a huge variety of complexity that is truly individual based. Did you make a contribution to a tax deductible IRA? Did you make a retroactive payment to that account in the following tax calendar year? There's a ton of variables going on here, where the government doesn't have this all-seeing system where everything gets accounted for across the vast array of income sources and employment statuses, dependents, filing status, and all the increments and decrements to those things through time. There's no one central source where all this information is collated and waiting for someone to turn the crank and grind out a number from. Folks have to remember that nothing is implemented by default. The effort to reduce the complexity of the 1040 into 6 new schedules was a great way to factor out those with complicated situations such that the majority of tax payers are oblivious to those nuances. The crux of the matter is that legislators passed into law all these onerous mass of rules to turn various levers to entice and discourage certain things and bite those with progressive tax rates. It is precisely the existence of these rules as to why the government doesn't know what tax valley you land in that huge parameter space. It will not presume to know your specific circumstances but assume that you being aware of your own money and circumstances are in the best position to know these things. At the least one thing I learned is that with tax laws if you have no idea what a thing is it probably in not applicable to you. Needless to say all of this would be much more simple if we just pay a flat tax on all income for all people. Nothing simpler than that.

tibiahurried 7y ago
It is almost 2020 and cash should be banned and all transactions should be electronic. Shouldn't that hard for them to figure out how much do I owe in taxes.
danans 7y ago
> Needless to say all of this would be much more simple if we just pay a flat tax on all income for all people. Nothing simpler than that. That would be a highly regressive tax system that dramatically transfers even more wealth to the already wealthy. But sure, it's definitely simpler. That doesn't make it better.

jdavis703 7y ago

I forgot to file one of several 1099 forms one year. I got a friendly call from an auditor. He explained what the discrepancy was, how I could appeal if I wanted, and what the payment options were. When I told him I'd take an IRS loan (i.e. a payment plan with interest), he advised me it would be cheaper for me to get a loan from family, friends or the bank. This was about as far from being threatened with prison I've ever been... And believe me I've come pretty close to being arrested (during exercise of my 1st & 4th amendment rights on multiple occasions).

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]