8 ms·

I think it was changed that TCAS alert from the plane always takes priority over the ATC. After this incident: 1 July 2002, Bashkirian Airlines Flight 2937, a

I think it was changed that TCAS alert from the plane always takes priority over the ATC. After this incident: 1 July 2002, Bashkirian Airlines Flight 2937, a Tupolev Tu-154 passenger jet, and DHL Flight 611, a Boeing 757 cargo jet, collided in mid-air over Überlingen.

_-___________-_ 7y ago
Yes, TCAS takes priority over ATC, but I didn't mention TCAS in my comment, so I'm not sure what you mean :) GP was asking about whether the ATC controller gets alerts, and I was replying to say that yes, there are several types of alert that should trigger in this situation, in a modern ATC setup. These aren't related to TCAS but are alerts at the ATC location.
- concerned_user 7y ago
  It is just an addition to whole topic of alerts that even if in some setups ATC doesn't have the alert or is overloaded to react in timely fashion that ATC it is not the only thing preventing the collision, that there are systems and procedures on the plane. Maybe I should've replied to original comments instead but yours seemed like a good place. Sorry for causing confusion.
0xcafecafe 7y ago
Wasn't this the incident where a bunch of kids died and the grieving parent of one stabbed the ATC person responsible? Sadness all around...
- concerned_user 7y ago
  Yes, it was this accident.
- koboll 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Kaloyev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Kaloyev The 'Return' section is sickening. Russia has a cancerously warped morality.
  - 0xcafecafe 7y ago
    ""Kaloyev is a hero. Those guilty of causing air crashes often remain unpunished. Such a radical punishment is the only way to make them carry responsibility for their crimes," said Vitaly Yusko, a member of a Russian organisation dedicated to helping the relatives of air crash victims. " Ughh that was bad to read..
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    Consider long and hard the case of Radonda Vaught, the nurse who killed a patient at Vanderbilt Hospital in a most dreadful manner. The investigation showed that she was overworked and stupid, and that patient safety at Vanderbilt is so bad that you should go elsewhere if you value your life. There were no consequences for anyone, no changes in protocol or leadership; the institution covered up the nurse's error to such a degree that she still has her license. The nursing board is now looking into the case again, but that's only because of the public outcry. There was a Gofundme campaign spearheaded by a well-known online nursing community that raised > 100 kUSD for the defense; that page mostly said that she is a nice person. (That might be at the recommendation of the defense, but it doesn't matter; there is no situational insight, consequently there won't be any improvement.) Z-Dogg MD came out in her defense as well, citing "just culture". From the outside is looks that since leadership gets off by default, consequently the scapegoat at the bottom that exposed the systemic failings should get of scot-free, too. In the Ueberlingen case, at least someone had justice administered to him.
  - SkyBelow 7y ago
    >Only one air traffic controller, Peter Nielsen of ACC Zurich, was controlling the airspace through which the aircraft were flying.[10] The other controller on duty was resting in another room for the night. This was against SkyGuide's regulations but had been a common practice for years and was known and tolerated by management.[10] Maintenance work was being carried out on the main radar image processing system, which meant that the controllers were forced to use a fallback system. >Skyguide, after initially having blamed the Russian pilot for the accident, accepted full responsibility and asked relatives of the victims for forgiveness. >Under international aviation laws,[failed verification] the compensation amount was about CHF 30,000 ($34,087) to CHF 36,000. The Swiss Federal Court turned down appeals from some relatives for higher compensation in 2011. >A criminal investigation of Skyguide began in May 2004. On 7 August 2006, a Swiss prosecutor filed manslaughter charges against eight employees of Skyguide. The prosecutor called for prison terms of up to 15 months if found guilty.[29] The verdict was announced in September 2007. Three of the four managers convicted were given suspended prison terms and the fourth was ordered to pay a fine.[22] Another four Skyguide employees were cleared of any wrongdoing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_%C3%9Cberlingen_mid-air_collision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_%C3%9Cberlingen_mid-air_c... How so?

_-___________-_ 7y ago

Yes, TCAS takes priority over ATC, but I didn't mention TCAS in my comment, so I'm not sure what you mean :) GP was asking about whether the ATC controller gets alerts, and I was replying to say that yes, there are several types of alert that should trigger in this situation, in a modern ATC setup. These aren't related to TCAS but are alerts at the ATC location.

concerned_user 7y ago
It is just an addition to whole topic of alerts that even if in some setups ATC doesn't have the alert or is overloaded to react in timely fashion that ATC it is not the only thing preventing the collision, that there are systems and procedures on the plane. Maybe I should've replied to original comments instead but yours seemed like a good place. Sorry for causing confusion.

0xcafecafe 7y ago

Wasn't this the incident where a bunch of kids died and the grieving parent of one stabbed the ATC person responsible? Sadness all around...

concerned_user 7y ago
Yes, it was this accident.
koboll 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Kaloyev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Kaloyev The 'Return' section is sickening. Russia has a cancerously warped morality.
- 0xcafecafe 7y ago
  ""Kaloyev is a hero. Those guilty of causing air crashes often remain unpunished. Such a radical punishment is the only way to make them carry responsibility for their crimes," said Vitaly Yusko, a member of a Russian organisation dedicated to helping the relatives of air crash victims. " Ughh that was bad to read..
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  Consider long and hard the case of Radonda Vaught, the nurse who killed a patient at Vanderbilt Hospital in a most dreadful manner. The investigation showed that she was overworked and stupid, and that patient safety at Vanderbilt is so bad that you should go elsewhere if you value your life. There were no consequences for anyone, no changes in protocol or leadership; the institution covered up the nurse's error to such a degree that she still has her license. The nursing board is now looking into the case again, but that's only because of the public outcry. There was a Gofundme campaign spearheaded by a well-known online nursing community that raised > 100 kUSD for the defense; that page mostly said that she is a nice person. (That might be at the recommendation of the defense, but it doesn't matter; there is no situational insight, consequently there won't be any improvement.) Z-Dogg MD came out in her defense as well, citing "just culture". From the outside is looks that since leadership gets off by default, consequently the scapegoat at the bottom that exposed the systemic failings should get of scot-free, too. In the Ueberlingen case, at least someone had justice administered to him.
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  >Only one air traffic controller, Peter Nielsen of ACC Zurich, was controlling the airspace through which the aircraft were flying.[10] The other controller on duty was resting in another room for the night. This was against SkyGuide's regulations but had been a common practice for years and was known and tolerated by management.[10] Maintenance work was being carried out on the main radar image processing system, which meant that the controllers were forced to use a fallback system. >Skyguide, after initially having blamed the Russian pilot for the accident, accepted full responsibility and asked relatives of the victims for forgiveness. >Under international aviation laws,[failed verification] the compensation amount was about CHF 30,000 ($34,087) to CHF 36,000. The Swiss Federal Court turned down appeals from some relatives for higher compensation in 2011. >A criminal investigation of Skyguide began in May 2004. On 7 August 2006, a Swiss prosecutor filed manslaughter charges against eight employees of Skyguide. The prosecutor called for prison terms of up to 15 months if found guilty.[29] The verdict was announced in September 2007. Three of the four managers convicted were given suspended prison terms and the fourth was ordered to pay a fine.[22] Another four Skyguide employees were cleared of any wrongdoing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_%C3%9Cberlingen_mid-air_collision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_%C3%9Cberlingen_mid-air_c... How so?