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The goal isn't to get a magical promotion from IC to VP because some "elite" "gave you a chance." It doesn't work that way. Really you have two options if your

by harryh 7y ago

The goal isn't to get a magical promotion from IC to VP because some "elite" "gave you a chance." It doesn't work that way. Really you have two options if your goal is to run a large organization: 1) Climb the ladder. IC -> Manager -> Senior Manager -> Director -> VP (precise steps will vary by company). You only have to impress your boss and maybe their boss at each step along the path. You should have plenty of opportunities to do so. 2) Go work for a small company that gets bigger. There are a lot fewer steps to the top at a small company. And then, if it goes well, it will grow under you. The extreme example of this is to found your own company. You'll be the boss from day one. Of course then you'll have to convince other people to come work for you. Which isn't easy. Neither of these paths have much of anything to do with country clubs or marinas.

Spooky23 7y ago
Usually #1 hits a glass ceiling at the Director or VP level. #2 is also risky as the investors often tend to ditch the early leadership, and those folks leave with some equity. There’s a good reason for this — there’s a point when your ability to perform some functions is less important than political savvy. It’s hard to be a political player without friends. The people who survive in scenario 1 and 2 have the savvy or are good at maintaining control. The scenario that you’re missing is the tour at a high end consulting firm, followed by senior level appointment and advancement from there. That world is very much shaped limited social networks and mutual self interest. The jobs don’t get posted on LinkedIn. The political world is very similar, except paying dues in the political machinery substitutes for education, as power is derived a little differently.
- harryh 7y ago
  #2 is also risky as the investors often tend to ditch the early leadership Significantly less true now than it used to be. And significantly less common in engineering than in other disciplines. A detailed knowledge of the codebase is an incredibly valuable skill for a technical leader. An outsider will take years (if ever they ever do) to build up the knowledge that someone there from the beginning already has.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  I don’t think you hit a glass ceiling so much as there is only one top spot. If it’s taken you are left with nowhere to go.
christiansakai 7y ago
I know someone who went to path no. 2. He doesn't have any college degree. He is VP now (started from software engineering). He is super smart though, and been coding since a really young age, and skip college entirely to workforce.
- harryh 7y ago
  Being super smart definitely helps. As does a lot of hard work. As does luck. I'm fairly confident that all three matter more than connections. At least in the tech industry.
  - pm90 7y ago
    > I'm fairly confident that all three matter more than connections. At least in the tech industry. Define "tech industry". If you're talking about Post 2000-era founded Silicon Valley companies, then ... maybe. Otherwise, the vast majority of the Informational Technology industry is still dominated by enterprises whose ossified leadership is similar to every other in corporate America. The specific slice of Silicon Valley companies I mentioned earlier seem to be doing better, they're on the right path. But if you're saying that connections don't matter in the tech industry, I've got a bridge to sell you.
kjs3 7y ago
None of which is "becoming a CEO". I've done exactly what you spell out more than once and have an awesome career. But when it came to the times I was considered for the Big Seat the end-game always ended with someone saying "awesome job building this thing...now we're going to bring in someone way more connected/notable/presentable than you". If you're lucky they don't ask you to resign to make room.
- harryh 7y ago
  Ya, things definitely get more complicated the closer you get to the top. It's also important to remember: What Got You Here Won't Get You There[1]. The next job up often isn't "the same job but better" but instead "a whole new job." 1. A book title. If it wasn't obvious.
  - kjs3 7y ago
    The next job up often isn't "the same job but better" but instead "a whole new job." Very astute. I had a great manager when I moved from single-contributor to team manager who said something just like this...this job is nothing like your old job.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
austhrow743 7y ago
Management consulting is better than climbing internally. It's why jobs with top management consulting firms are so hard to get.

by harryh 7y ago

Spooky23 7y ago

Usually #1 hits a glass ceiling at the Director or VP level. #2 is also risky as the investors often tend to ditch the early leadership, and those folks leave with some equity. There’s a good reason for this — there’s a point when your ability to perform some functions is less important than political savvy. It’s hard to be a political player without friends. The people who survive in scenario 1 and 2 have the savvy or are good at maintaining control. The scenario that you’re missing is the tour at a high end consulting firm, followed by senior level appointment and advancement from there. That world is very much shaped limited social networks and mutual self interest. The jobs don’t get posted on LinkedIn. The political world is very similar, except paying dues in the political machinery substitutes for education, as power is derived a little differently.

harryh 7y ago
#2 is also risky as the investors often tend to ditch the early leadership Significantly less true now than it used to be. And significantly less common in engineering than in other disciplines. A detailed knowledge of the codebase is an incredibly valuable skill for a technical leader. An outsider will take years (if ever they ever do) to build up the knowledge that someone there from the beginning already has.
Aeolun 7y ago
I don’t think you hit a glass ceiling so much as there is only one top spot. If it’s taken you are left with nowhere to go.

christiansakai 7y ago

I know someone who went to path no. 2. He doesn't have any college degree. He is VP now (started from software engineering). He is super smart though, and been coding since a really young age, and skip college entirely to workforce.

harryh 7y ago
Being super smart definitely helps. As does a lot of hard work. As does luck. I'm fairly confident that all three matter more than connections. At least in the tech industry.
- pm90 7y ago
  > I'm fairly confident that all three matter more than connections. At least in the tech industry. Define "tech industry". If you're talking about Post 2000-era founded Silicon Valley companies, then ... maybe. Otherwise, the vast majority of the Informational Technology industry is still dominated by enterprises whose ossified leadership is similar to every other in corporate America. The specific slice of Silicon Valley companies I mentioned earlier seem to be doing better, they're on the right path. But if you're saying that connections don't matter in the tech industry, I've got a bridge to sell you.

kjs3 7y ago

None of which is "becoming a CEO". I've done exactly what you spell out more than once and have an awesome career. But when it came to the times I was considered for the Big Seat the end-game always ended with someone saying "awesome job building this thing...now we're going to bring in someone way more connected/notable/presentable than you". If you're lucky they don't ask you to resign to make room.

harryh 7y ago
Ya, things definitely get more complicated the closer you get to the top. It's also important to remember: What Got You Here Won't Get You There[1]. The next job up often isn't "the same job but better" but instead "a whole new job." 1. A book title. If it wasn't obvious.
- kjs3 7y ago
  The next job up often isn't "the same job but better" but instead "a whole new job." Very astute. I had a great manager when I moved from single-contributor to team manager who said something just like this...this job is nothing like your old job.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

austhrow743 7y ago

Management consulting is better than climbing internally. It's why jobs with top management consulting firms are so hard to get.