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Mcdonald's was my first employer, and while I've got a ton of "somebody pooped in the ballpit" stories, I really think the restaurant is a net good. As a 16 ye

Mcdonald's was my first employer, and while I've got a ton of "somebody pooped in the ballpit" stories, I really think the restaurant is a net good. As a 16 year old it was awesome to work alongside other folks of varying ages and nationalities and get to know that other "walks" of life existed. I made friends outside of my highschool, fell in love, got burnt by the fryolator like 8 times, and most importantly learned about hard work and the value of money. But I also saw veterans from the VA having their Saturday breakfast meeting. I remember watching them sit for hours with smiles on their faces as they talked about their time in the service. I watched regulars come in and make smalltalk at the register. I saw the homeless get their daily meals. I saw people at their worst, screaming about McChickens, and at their best, telling jokes and making people smile. It really is a watering hole and I'm thankful for the time I spent there.

hos234 7y ago
Sounds like a 'Third Place' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
- claudiawerner 7y ago
  Very interesting article, thanks for posting! I've thought about this a lot in the context of online communities (IRC channels, old-style forums and "old-style" games where people can host their own servers, and you get to know "the regulars"). I think the "clan" or "community" idea in some online games really makes them into "third places". I used to play Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory a lot. The key point in the game is that while of course people were better than others, it only took 5 or 6 hours of play to level up to the highest point you could be. Most servers saved xp points between connects, so while it may take a new player on the server 5 or 6 hours to level up to stuff like faster reloading, there is no massive difference between what some players have access to and what others have access to - you don't accumulate weapons or items or skins, nor can you buy them. This means that the game is very heavily (somewhat luck) egalitarian in that some people have more skills than others, but everyone has an equal opportunity to gain those skills. Newer online games like Overwatch (which I play more now) have distroyed this community spirit. The normal mode of playing is no longer that one joins a server full of regulars, rather, you're matched up with random people. You can play with specific people, but it's weird to randomly friend request someone after the length of a game (20 minutes or less). The mitigating factor is that you can choose to "stay as a team" if you enjoyed your 20 minutes, and it'll group the people who select that together. After playing more games in this group, you might start chatting ("fancy another game?" or "you did great in that!" etc.) and then add each other as friends. But it's not the same as hanging out. Old games were more like going to your local running club every week. New games are like going to a different fun-run in a different part of town each week, and then maybe someone asks you to to run with them again at one of the fun-runs, but there's a very low chance of that happening and it's kinda weird. Chat servers/channels/whatever that allow off-topic discussion seem to be the go-to "third place" online now. HN and Reddit are too large to qualify in a meaningful sense for the majority of users.
  - drewwwwww 7y ago
    i have a pet theory that matchmaking in team games, and the destruction of “placefulness“ in-game, has contributed to the widespread experience of increased toxicity in these communities. it’s magnified the online disinhibition effect, as the consequences are now even more diffuse. probably the same percentage of jerks, but you can’t get your friend who runs the server to ban them. discord servers seem to have filled the niche, to some extent, as each server can develop its own norms. i’m hoping that OW2 takes the opportunity to address this design problem in-game, via guilds, clans, or tournaments, something along those lines.
  - hos234 7y ago
    Good points about familiarity and regularity. There is a lot of scope to improve online spaces by bringing those elements in. And maybe getting rid of/reducing - infinite scroll addictive news streams + upvotes/likes/retweet/counter stuff which I guess distracts everyone from connecting. If you are interested in Third Place stuff, Howard Shultz talks about how that philosophy is behind the success of Starbucks much more than the coffee :)
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Skimming the article, and in particular after reading "Oldenburg's characteristics", I feel it misses what I'd guess would be the core characteristic of a third place: choice. Home and work are places where you have to be[0]. The "third place" is somewhere you choose to be. -- [0] - Not technically, but the costs of not being there are generally too high to give one any realistic choice in the matter.
mattrp 7y ago
I’ve also noticed McDonald’s as a whole has a very good hiring program. It’s rare you get someone who just doesn’t give a crap these days. I would say as a rule their employees seem intelligent and motivated to be friendly to customers whereas it’s become hit or miss at more expensive quick serve alternatives.
- bluedino 7y ago
  Hah. Places like Chick Fil A have amazing employees, even Culver's has a cut above. But most of the people at MCD/Wendy’s/BK simply do not give two shits
  - zeta0134 7y ago
    It really does depend on the locale. In larger cities in South Texas for example, your opinion mostly holds: McDonalds employees are the lowest rung, they know it, and they don't seem to particularly care. In small towns though? The local McDonalds is often one of the only places to eat that's open late, and because the employees and the locals are essentially supporting each other, the attitude is completely different. Not being constantly rushed with a line around the building probably helps. All that said, I'm amazed that Chick Fil A is able to maintain such a high quality of customer service within cities, even when they seem to be just slammed all day long. I have no idea how they pull that off so consistently, but they do, and they've earned my respect because of it.
    - Spooky23 7y ago
      Chick-Fil-A pays a slight premium and recruits heavily in the evangelical churches that the operators belong to. The small town McDonald’s are actually pretty similar. Usually they are owned in the community, while urban McDonald’s are usually part of a multi-unit franchisee. Chick-fil-A doesn’t allow that.
    - listenallyall 7y ago
      CFA customer service and employee quality has declined in recent years as the company's growth has accelerated. In my opinion.
criddell 7y ago
The last time I ate McDonald's it was during a long road trip and it was late at night. Inside the store, everything was being handled by 3 teenagers and that blew my mind.
- ljm 7y ago
  Went to a McDonalds after midnight, after an epic Eminem gig nearby. We just needed some coffees, not food. You don't go to Maccies for a good coffee but fucking hell, they were the only place we could get it from. Drive through was closed but I could order inside. Some tough guys hanging out and flexing but they're just waiting for their mate to finish their shift. 24 hour coffee is a total boon when you've got a 2 hour drive ahead of you after a big gig.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >You don't go to Maccies for a good coffee but fucking hell, they were the only place we could get it from. Well, IIRC, they had upped their coffee game a lot in the past decade or so, to compete with the coffee incubents. Besides, it's not like e.g. Starbucks coffee is anything but artificial piss for a European coffee drinker.
    - eru 7y ago
      I thought the selling point of Starbucks (used to) be the free wifi? Did anyone ever go there for coffee? > Besides, it's not like e.g. Starbucks coffee is anything but artificial piss for a European coffee drinker. To Australians the difference is even more pronounced.
    - satori99 7y ago
      McDonalds in my country, Australia, has superb coffee. They have fresh-from-whole bean espresso machines in every store -- Often as part of a McCafe with a dedicated barista. It is seriously as good as coffee from nearly any anywhere else, and consistently so. https://mcdonalds.com.au/menu/mccafe https://mcdonalds.com.au/menu/mccafe
pell 7y ago
You might enjoy this episode of the podcast "Rough Translation"about a McDonald's in France: https://www.npr.org/2019/10/18/771319514/rough-translation-libert-galit-and-french-fries?t=1577658183753 https://www.npr.org/2019/10/18/771319514/rough-translation-l...
coldtea 7y ago
>As a 16 year old it was awesome to work alongside other folks of varying ages and nationalities and get to know that other "walks" of life existed. For a certain range of "other walks". Rich and upper middle class kids would seldom work there for example. Which makes compulsory army service an even better version of the "meet people from all walks of life". It also helps with not over-dramatizing things (think "emo" teens) and generally being lazy (think kids whose parents do everything for them well into their 20s). And most people could do with more discipline, not less. Unfortunately it comes with the baggage of you know, killing people. That said, in countries not in the offense this (being involved in combat) is almost never the case. Though these countries, with exceptions like Switzerland and Singapore, don't have an army service. Perhaps an alternative, where people have to spend time with all walks of life, privileges are minimal, and they get to do some good, like e.g. planting trees, helping in crisis situations, etc, would be great.
- jdnenej 7y ago
  I went to a private school in Australia and had lots of friends from upper class backgrounds and almost all of them had a part time job at McDonald's or a supermarket purely for the experience and so they could have the finest PC gaming parts. They all left before starting uni to focus on study but I think it's untrue that upper class kids do not work at McDonald's. They just don't keep working there for the long term.
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    How... do you get fine PC gaming parts from working McD?
    - jdnenej 7y ago
      ~$15-$17 AUD per hour and all living expenses paid for by parents. Combined with money you get from relatives on birthdays it becomes pretty easy to buy a new $400 gpu
      - 7y ago
sevilo 7y ago
I also had MCD as my first job at 15, and have a lot to appreciate. My parents basically wanted me to experience a “crappy job” at least once (it really wasn’t that bad of a job, plus 50% employee discount which was a great deal for a teenager and McD lover), and told me that people who are versatile and are able to endure hardship will be able to make it through and pick oneself up even when life becomes difficult for whatever reason. And another quote from my McD coworker, who was an aspiring music composer, changed my view on money, I had a problem with hoarding money (still kind of do) and he said to me “money is not the goal, it’s something to help achieve your goals”. Didn’t understand that until I was older but it eventually struck me. Great place to be for teenagers looking for their first work experiences really.
dwnvoted2hell 7y ago
This is trash panda Marketing.

hos234 7y ago

Sounds like a 'Third Place' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place

claudiawerner 7y ago
Very interesting article, thanks for posting! I've thought about this a lot in the context of online communities (IRC channels, old-style forums and "old-style" games where people can host their own servers, and you get to know "the regulars"). I think the "clan" or "community" idea in some online games really makes them into "third places". I used to play Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory a lot. The key point in the game is that while of course people were better than others, it only took 5 or 6 hours of play to level up to the highest point you could be. Most servers saved xp points between connects, so while it may take a new player on the server 5 or 6 hours to level up to stuff like faster reloading, there is no massive difference between what some players have access to and what others have access to - you don't accumulate weapons or items or skins, nor can you buy them. This means that the game is very heavily (somewhat luck) egalitarian in that some people have more skills than others, but everyone has an equal opportunity to gain those skills. Newer online games like Overwatch (which I play more now) have distroyed this community spirit. The normal mode of playing is no longer that one joins a server full of regulars, rather, you're matched up with random people. You can play with specific people, but it's weird to randomly friend request someone after the length of a game (20 minutes or less). The mitigating factor is that you can choose to "stay as a team" if you enjoyed your 20 minutes, and it'll group the people who select that together. After playing more games in this group, you might start chatting ("fancy another game?" or "you did great in that!" etc.) and then add each other as friends. But it's not the same as hanging out. Old games were more like going to your local running club every week. New games are like going to a different fun-run in a different part of town each week, and then maybe someone asks you to to run with them again at one of the fun-runs, but there's a very low chance of that happening and it's kinda weird. Chat servers/channels/whatever that allow off-topic discussion seem to be the go-to "third place" online now. HN and Reddit are too large to qualify in a meaningful sense for the majority of users.
- drewwwwww 7y ago
  i have a pet theory that matchmaking in team games, and the destruction of “placefulness“ in-game, has contributed to the widespread experience of increased toxicity in these communities. it’s magnified the online disinhibition effect, as the consequences are now even more diffuse. probably the same percentage of jerks, but you can’t get your friend who runs the server to ban them. discord servers seem to have filled the niche, to some extent, as each server can develop its own norms. i’m hoping that OW2 takes the opportunity to address this design problem in-game, via guilds, clans, or tournaments, something along those lines.
- hos234 7y ago
  Good points about familiarity and regularity. There is a lot of scope to improve online spaces by bringing those elements in. And maybe getting rid of/reducing - infinite scroll addictive news streams + upvotes/likes/retweet/counter stuff which I guess distracts everyone from connecting. If you are interested in Third Place stuff, Howard Shultz talks about how that philosophy is behind the success of Starbucks much more than the coffee :)
TeMPOraL 7y ago
Skimming the article, and in particular after reading "Oldenburg's characteristics", I feel it misses what I'd guess would be the core characteristic of a third place: choice. Home and work are places where you have to be[0]. The "third place" is somewhere you choose to be. -- [0] - Not technically, but the costs of not being there are generally too high to give one any realistic choice in the matter.

mattrp 7y ago

I’ve also noticed McDonald’s as a whole has a very good hiring program. It’s rare you get someone who just doesn’t give a crap these days. I would say as a rule their employees seem intelligent and motivated to be friendly to customers whereas it’s become hit or miss at more expensive quick serve alternatives.

bluedino 7y ago
Hah. Places like Chick Fil A have amazing employees, even Culver's has a cut above. But most of the people at MCD/Wendy’s/BK simply do not give two shits
- zeta0134 7y ago
  It really does depend on the locale. In larger cities in South Texas for example, your opinion mostly holds: McDonalds employees are the lowest rung, they know it, and they don't seem to particularly care. In small towns though? The local McDonalds is often one of the only places to eat that's open late, and because the employees and the locals are essentially supporting each other, the attitude is completely different. Not being constantly rushed with a line around the building probably helps. All that said, I'm amazed that Chick Fil A is able to maintain such a high quality of customer service within cities, even when they seem to be just slammed all day long. I have no idea how they pull that off so consistently, but they do, and they've earned my respect because of it.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    Chick-Fil-A pays a slight premium and recruits heavily in the evangelical churches that the operators belong to. The small town McDonald’s are actually pretty similar. Usually they are owned in the community, while urban McDonald’s are usually part of a multi-unit franchisee. Chick-fil-A doesn’t allow that.
  - listenallyall 7y ago
    CFA customer service and employee quality has declined in recent years as the company's growth has accelerated. In my opinion.

criddell 7y ago

The last time I ate McDonald's it was during a long road trip and it was late at night. Inside the store, everything was being handled by 3 teenagers and that blew my mind.

ljm 7y ago
Went to a McDonalds after midnight, after an epic Eminem gig nearby. We just needed some coffees, not food. You don't go to Maccies for a good coffee but fucking hell, they were the only place we could get it from. Drive through was closed but I could order inside. Some tough guys hanging out and flexing but they're just waiting for their mate to finish their shift. 24 hour coffee is a total boon when you've got a 2 hour drive ahead of you after a big gig.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >You don't go to Maccies for a good coffee but fucking hell, they were the only place we could get it from. Well, IIRC, they had upped their coffee game a lot in the past decade or so, to compete with the coffee incubents. Besides, it's not like e.g. Starbucks coffee is anything but artificial piss for a European coffee drinker.
  - eru 7y ago
    I thought the selling point of Starbucks (used to) be the free wifi? Did anyone ever go there for coffee? > Besides, it's not like e.g. Starbucks coffee is anything but artificial piss for a European coffee drinker. To Australians the difference is even more pronounced.
  - satori99 7y ago
    McDonalds in my country, Australia, has superb coffee. They have fresh-from-whole bean espresso machines in every store -- Often as part of a McCafe with a dedicated barista. It is seriously as good as coffee from nearly any anywhere else, and consistently so. https://mcdonalds.com.au/menu/mccafe https://mcdonalds.com.au/menu/mccafe

pell 7y ago

You might enjoy this episode of the podcast "Rough Translation"about a McDonald's in France: https://www.npr.org/2019/10/18/771319514/rough-translation-libert-galit-and-french-fries?t=1577658183753 https://www.npr.org/2019/10/18/771319514/rough-translation-l...

coldtea 7y ago

>As a 16 year old it was awesome to work alongside other folks of varying ages and nationalities and get to know that other "walks" of life existed. For a certain range of "other walks". Rich and upper middle class kids would seldom work there for example. Which makes compulsory army service an even better version of the "meet people from all walks of life". It also helps with not over-dramatizing things (think "emo" teens) and generally being lazy (think kids whose parents do everything for them well into their 20s). And most people could do with more discipline, not less. Unfortunately it comes with the baggage of you know, killing people. That said, in countries not in the offense this (being involved in combat) is almost never the case. Though these countries, with exceptions like Switzerland and Singapore, don't have an army service. Perhaps an alternative, where people have to spend time with all walks of life, privileges are minimal, and they get to do some good, like e.g. planting trees, helping in crisis situations, etc, would be great.

jdnenej 7y ago
I went to a private school in Australia and had lots of friends from upper class backgrounds and almost all of them had a part time job at McDonald's or a supermarket purely for the experience and so they could have the finest PC gaming parts. They all left before starting uni to focus on study but I think it's untrue that upper class kids do not work at McDonald's. They just don't keep working there for the long term.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  How... do you get fine PC gaming parts from working McD?
  - jdnenej 7y ago
    ~$15-$17 AUD per hour and all living expenses paid for by parents. Combined with money you get from relatives on birthdays it becomes pretty easy to buy a new $400 gpu
    - 7y ago

sevilo 7y ago

I also had MCD as my first job at 15, and have a lot to appreciate. My parents basically wanted me to experience a “crappy job” at least once (it really wasn’t that bad of a job, plus 50% employee discount which was a great deal for a teenager and McD lover), and told me that people who are versatile and are able to endure hardship will be able to make it through and pick oneself up even when life becomes difficult for whatever reason. And another quote from my McD coworker, who was an aspiring music composer, changed my view on money, I had a problem with hoarding money (still kind of do) and he said to me “money is not the goal, it’s something to help achieve your goals”. Didn’t understand that until I was older but it eventually struck me. Great place to be for teenagers looking for their first work experiences really.

dwnvoted2hell 7y ago

This is trash panda Marketing.