5 ms·

Empirical Comparison of DOS Kernels (2015)

58 points by unixhero 7y ago

fuzzfactor 7y ago
Keep in mind that DOS 7 from W98SE can boot, access and format SATA and USB drives usually natively from BIOS mode, with multiple FAT32 partitions as large as 32GB starting within the first 120GB from the MBR at sector 0, and much deeper when the MBR has been replaced by one from NT6 and up to 2TB HDD's can be often used. Just like W95b, and W95b can be made to fit and work well within 32mb of drive space, 8mb memory or more but preferring under 1 or 2GB memory, and allowing 2.0GHz or less with the AMD K3 patch, it runs better than the relatively bloated W98SE, whose type of built-in networking can optionally be added to W95b, and LAN drivers are still widely available for DOS/W9x. With a little more drive space and Office 97, you get Word, Excel, and even Power Point whose primary features are still fully capable of creating for and opening files from any later version of Windows or Open Source Office keeping simple well-defined limitations in mind at both ends. The drawback is usually graphics drivers for which pleasing high resolution can not easily be obtained.
- anthk 7y ago
  Does the unnoficial SP for WIndow 98SE play well with KVM? I mean, without crashes or page faults.
  - unixhero 7y ago
    No reason why it shouldn't. Maybe you have to disable as many of the new and fancy CPU flags from the emulated x86 CPU instruction set.
    - anthk 7y ago
      Qemu can do that, but I can't remember the syntax.
- anthk 7y ago
  You can install W95c and disable all ActiveX bullshit: http://toastytech.com/files/throboff.html http://toastytech.com/files/throboff.html Also: USB drive{,r}: http://toastytech.com/files/throboff.html http://toastytech.com/files/throboff.html Everyone knows this: http://kernelex.sourceforge.net/ http://kernelex.sourceforge.net/
- winrid 7y ago
  What about security?
  - unixhero 7y ago
    Well the DOS operating system exposes RING0 to the user and to all programs, privileged mode. DOS isn't secure as such. You can install some antivirus software which sits resident in memory and enables some protection against malicious viruses interacting with files, memory, MBR.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    The notion of security, as it briefly existed in the Win9x world, was that the OS should not have any remotely exploitable holes in the network stacks.
- tus88 7y ago
  > with multiple FAT32 partitions as large as 32GB starting within the first 120GB I have a single 120GB partition with Win98 and it's fine. I also use seagate tools to change the driver overall reporting size to 120gb.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
iforgotpassword 7y ago
> •With the FreeDOS kernel and FreeCOM, conveniences are gained and the memory footprint under 1 MB is reduced, but compatibility is sacrificed, both in the post-DOS-3.3 sense and in terms of known quirks and bugs. Anyone got some insight what exactly post 3.3 is referring to? I've seen once or twice that retro enthusiasts like to use dos 3.3, so what's happened with versions after that?
- andrewf 7y ago
  I'm not sure exactly what the author was referring to but http://www.os2museum.com/wp/dos/dos-4-0/ http://www.os2museum.com/wp/dos/dos-4-0/ might be of interest.
etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
Philosophically, I cannot help but feel like a kernel without memory protection or any multitasking is better called a library than a kernel. It's effectively a series of function calls the applications can call, to my knowledge. I guess we expect a whole lot more of OS's now.
- MisterTea 7y ago
  It's closer to an RTOS as all it does is load a single program and provides that program an API to access services and hardware. Sure, you can run other programs within programs but you switch execution between programs and whatever is running has full control of the machine. There are no interrupts or scheduling so the running program has to voulinteraillary yield or exit to switch back.
  - etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
    > Sure, you can run other programs within programs but you switch execution between programs and whatever is running has full control of the machine Are you talking about terminate and stay resident, TSR? Barely qualifies as multitasking IMO because I don't think yield() can even be done.
    - MisterTea 7y ago
      I remember calling them subprograms and TSR's were things like memory managers and drivers. e.g. you could open a shell or other program from within a program like norton commander or dos shell. I can't remember if you could switch between them or the subprogram had to exit before control was returned to the the calling program.
      - temac 7y ago
        There is no multitasking for regular programs in DOS: if a program launches another one, the parent is simply paused until the child exits. Also DOS used various interrupt handlers (not just the synchronous int 21h)

58 points by unixhero 7y ago

Keep in mind that DOS 7 from W98SE can boot, access and format SATA and USB drives usually natively from BIOS mode, with multiple FAT32 partitions as large as 32GB starting within the first 120GB from the MBR at sector 0, and much deeper when the MBR has been replaced by one from NT6 and up to 2TB HDD's can be often used. Just like W95b, and W95b can be made to fit and work well within 32mb of drive space, 8mb memory or more but preferring under 1 or 2GB memory, and allowing 2.0GHz or less with the AMD K3 patch, it runs better than the relatively bloated W98SE, whose type of built-in networking can optionally be added to W95b, and LAN drivers are still widely available for DOS/W9x. With a little more drive space and Office 97, you get Word, Excel, and even Power Point whose primary features are still fully capable of creating for and opening files from any later version of Windows or Open Source Office keeping simple well-defined limitations in mind at both ends. The drawback is usually graphics drivers for which pleasing high resolution can not easily be obtained.

anthk 7y ago
Does the unnoficial SP for WIndow 98SE play well with KVM? I mean, without crashes or page faults.
- unixhero 7y ago
  No reason why it shouldn't. Maybe you have to disable as many of the new and fancy CPU flags from the emulated x86 CPU instruction set.
  - anthk 7y ago
    Qemu can do that, but I can't remember the syntax.
anthk 7y ago
You can install W95c and disable all ActiveX bullshit: http://toastytech.com/files/throboff.html http://toastytech.com/files/throboff.html Also: USB drive{,r}: http://toastytech.com/files/throboff.html http://toastytech.com/files/throboff.html Everyone knows this: http://kernelex.sourceforge.net/ http://kernelex.sourceforge.net/
winrid 7y ago
What about security?
- unixhero 7y ago
  Well the DOS operating system exposes RING0 to the user and to all programs, privileged mode. DOS isn't secure as such. You can install some antivirus software which sits resident in memory and enables some protection against malicious viruses interacting with files, memory, MBR.
- jacobush 7y ago
  The notion of security, as it briefly existed in the Win9x world, was that the OS should not have any remotely exploitable holes in the network stacks.
tus88 7y ago
> with multiple FAT32 partitions as large as 32GB starting within the first 120GB I have a single 120GB partition with Win98 and it's fine. I also use seagate tools to change the driver overall reporting size to 120gb.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

iforgotpassword 7y ago

> •With the FreeDOS kernel and FreeCOM, conveniences are gained and the memory footprint under 1 MB is reduced, but compatibility is sacrificed, both in the post-DOS-3.3 sense and in terms of known quirks and bugs. Anyone got some insight what exactly post 3.3 is referring to? I've seen once or twice that retro enthusiasts like to use dos 3.3, so what's happened with versions after that?

andrewf 7y ago
I'm not sure exactly what the author was referring to but http://www.os2museum.com/wp/dos/dos-4-0/ http://www.os2museum.com/wp/dos/dos-4-0/ might be of interest.

etaioinshrdlu 7y ago

Philosophically, I cannot help but feel like a kernel without memory protection or any multitasking is better called a library than a kernel. It's effectively a series of function calls the applications can call, to my knowledge. I guess we expect a whole lot more of OS's now.

MisterTea 7y ago
It's closer to an RTOS as all it does is load a single program and provides that program an API to access services and hardware. Sure, you can run other programs within programs but you switch execution between programs and whatever is running has full control of the machine. There are no interrupts or scheduling so the running program has to voulinteraillary yield or exit to switch back.
- etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
  > Sure, you can run other programs within programs but you switch execution between programs and whatever is running has full control of the machine Are you talking about terminate and stay resident, TSR? Barely qualifies as multitasking IMO because I don't think yield() can even be done.
  - MisterTea 7y ago
    I remember calling them subprograms and TSR's were things like memory managers and drivers. e.g. you could open a shell or other program from within a program like norton commander or dos shell. I can't remember if you could switch between them or the subprogram had to exit before control was returned to the the calling program.
    - temac 7y ago
      There is no multitasking for regular programs in DOS: if a program launches another one, the parent is simply paused until the child exits. Also DOS used various interrupt handlers (not just the synchronous int 21h)