7 ms·

Reading speed strikes me similarly to typing speed when it comes to programming. It's fun to read/type fast, but it's not really the bottleneck.

by Reedx 7y ago

quickthrower2 7y ago
The best way to speed read is if the writer reduces the number of words required to communicate and educate. Of course this takes extra effort, and is also goes against human perception of value. E.g. if you reduced Tim Ferris's book to a single sheet of A4 you could get the point across, but who's going to pay $20 or so for a sheet of A4? Well some execs might pay $2000 - but you won't sell millions of copies like that. Anyway... To sum it up that book: To work fewer hours per week in the long term, set up a business, and figure out how to automate, speed up and delegate as much of the work as possible. Imagine a few cool inspiration inducing anecdotes alluding to a cool lifestyle. Read elsewhere for the bit about how to set up a successful business in the first place, or the details of how to automate and delegate effectively. There you go - 200 or so pages you don't need to read :-)
- Reedx 7y ago
  That's something I've been wondering about. How many non-fiction books could be reduced by 90% and still communicate 90% of the ideas? I feel like we're losing a lot of time and potential due to filler pages.
  - Swizec 7y ago
    Business books (most good writing actually) are frontloaded. The first paragraph tells you the gist, the first page the important ideas, the first chapter most of what the book has to offer. The rest is there to go into detail and support that first chapter with facts arguments and anecdotes. But here’s the kicker: you often won’t fully grok the first chapter if you don’t read the rest. (or don’t already know it from other sources)
  - baddox 7y ago
    It’s interesting that you specify non-fiction, presumably since part of the point of reading fiction is the process of reading itself rather than simply the plot that unfolds. But of course, that’s also true of non-fiction books. Many people probably enjoy the process of reading Tim Ferris’ books.
    - lsc 7y ago
      >It’s interesting that you specify non-fiction, presumably since part of the point of reading fiction is the process of reading itself rather than simply the plot that unfolds there's all sorts of "reduced Shakespeare" - most of it more parody than summary, but there is a tradition of summarizing literature and fiction, and the results are not always devoid of literary merit on their own.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    I read a book that could literally be summed up in a sentence (it was called "the asshole rule" or something similar, and the gist was "don't hire assholes"). There was nothing at all in addition to that, except for a bunch of feel-good anecdotes and specious data that misrepresented correlation for causation. I hated it so much that I made a (now defunct) website where I would post summaries of these books so people wouldn't have to be subjected to all the filler.
    - lostlogin 7y ago
      Content bloat with needless crap seems to have happened to novels, movies and tv shows. It’s interesting to read penguin classics - maybe they don’t represent their respective eras, but they are usually (very subjectively) quite short.
      - EncryptEntropy 7y ago
        Don’t forget music, tutorials, HN long winded comments, and every single other form of medium in which someone is selling you something.
    - godelski 7y ago
      Sounds like the book was doing something different though. Why should you believe that one sentence? The author has to sell you on the idea and demonstrate why it is a bad idea to hire assholes. A singular sentence isn't going to be enough to convince you, and it shouldn't be.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - kaybe 7y ago
        I'd want a definition of 'asshole' as well, and a ranking of asshole characteristics to weigh against positive traits, and how to correct them where possible. The topic does warrant more than just a sentence.
  - ALittleLight 7y ago
    A lot of non-fiction is about trying to make a case or prove some thesis. As such, a book may try to show lots of evidence, deal with many potential counter arguments, or demonstrate that different lines of analysis lead to the same conclusion. If you become convinced of the thesis early on a lot of the book can seem redundant. When I find myself in such a position I usually just stop reading but include the ideas I got out of it in my notes. Later, if I find myself needing the details I skipped, it's easy to go back.
  - shanemhansen 7y ago
    That's what Reader's Digest did: summarize.
  - brownbat 7y ago
    There are "X for busy people" series that provide abbreviated summaries of the core ideas in popular works of nonfiction. I suppose the gamble is that it's hard to know which nonfiction are mostly fluff in advance though.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - dorfsmay 7y ago
    Yes, in that sense Wikipedia is one of the greatest human achievement. I wish it had been around when I grew up!
- sinuhe69 7y ago
  One way to verify your thesis is to read summary books. If they do it diligently and industriously, all books will look alike and contain just common senses. Like Blinkists ;)
- clement_b 7y ago
  These guys [0] do what you're talking about. They digest non fictional books, summarize them and even turn them into audio books. Quite good to go straight to the main points without missing anything important. [0] https://www.blinkist.com/ https://www.blinkist.com/
sweeneyrod 7y ago
Time spent typing might not be a bottleneck, but I think latency between thinking and having code can be. Typing quickly isn't the only way to reduce that latency though.
haecceity 7y ago
It depends on what you're programming as well. I suspect for cases when you can type faster than you think you'd be able to use a macro or some IDE snippet feature for it.
scarejunba 7y ago
Actually, I'd say they're different because of their position in cache. The reason it doesn't work for reading unfamiliar material is that you don't have the information yet. You need to assimilate to build the picture. In fact, I recall speed reading material I was familiar with and absolutely achieving significant comprehension. Writing is different. Increasing throughput almost has continuous gains all the way to blitting to computer. This makes sense. Everything is hot cached. Right now everything between my thoughts and the machine is just in the way.
Buttons840 7y ago
I've worked with some programmers who were so slow at typing I would find myself reluctant to help them with their "hands on" work, like directing them to try something in the REPL for example, or even just asking them to run a shell command. It was a struggle for me not to excuse myself as soon as possible once they started typing. They seemingly couldn't get a single word out without a typo, and would frequently hunt down other places in the code so they could copy paste that 6 character variable name, etc. Being able to type 30~40 WPM is good enough though, no need to be super speedy.
- hanoz 7y ago
  > couldn't get a single word out without a typo, and would frequently hunt down other places in the code so they could copy paste that 6 character variable name The latter seems a good strategy for coping with the former, does it not?
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    it's more like a pathological workaround. it's similar to people who spend years doing "hunt and peck" typing. if you practice enough, you can get up to a decent speed, but you would have been much better off taking a couple weeks to become a mediocre touch typist.
    - Intermernet 7y ago
      I was a mediocre touch typist, and then spent many years doing hands on, IT support. I usually had to type on other people's keyboards while I was offset to one side, or even on the other side of the desk. I'm now a terrible touch typist, but a pretty good upside down, one handed typist!
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    It requires more effort and more precision. So I'll say no. Having trouble with something and compensating by doing a more difficult task is only a good coping strategy when it's something you very rarely have to do.
kortex 7y ago
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. This applies to surprisingly many tasks in life. That said, I've been pushing to hit 100 wpm typing with minimal typos for years just because it's a nice round number and I keep ending up just shy. Character typos aren't even that big of a deal, as I find a good chunk of mistakes are actually "thought-os" where I type in the completely wrong giraffe. So being able to recover dynamically from misakes is valuable too.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  I wonder why some people type faster. If tested, I average around 125 wpm in reasonable tests (625 cpm really). I've never tried to learn to type quickly. I've never had anything beyond a $10 keyboard and I don't even type like it's taught (my hands overlap on some characters). Despite that I type quite fast with few errors - most of my mistakes are also related to typing in something completely different. It was quite shocking to me when I found out that my friends typed at below 80 wpm when trying to type fast.
  - mewpmewp2 7y ago
    Did you learn the proper technique at an early age? As in not looking at the keyboard and using all 10 fingers. This is what I did and I feel it has been a huge advantage for me.
- Intermernet 7y ago
  Pretty sure you meant giraffe instead of giraffe, but I may be misaken ;-)
ergocoder 7y ago
This is true to some degree. I'd like to think of a better analogy. Typing in programming is like running in soccer. It's definitely a problem if you type slowly or can't type for a long period of time. Passing the certain speed and endurance, typing faster doesn't help much. It's the same with soccer.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- twic 7y ago
  I think it's like Amdahl's Law. Programming is thinking followed by typing. If you spend half your time thinking and half your time typing, then doubling your typing speed will increase your programming speed by a third. But doubling it again will only increase your programming speed by a sixth, and even with infinite typing speed, you've only doubled your programming speed.
elfexec 7y ago
It has its uses, but you aren't going to speed read poetry, literature, etc and get much out of it. The same thing with memory maps and other tricks. They have their limited uses, but aren't a panacea for learning and knowledge.
heisenbit 7y ago
And like programming the biggest speedup comes from the letters never typed/read. Quality matters so much more.
weeksie 7y ago
Being quick on the keyboard is about reducing friction. The faster I can physically manipulate an idea in space and the more automatic it is, the less cognitive overhead I have to waste on the process. If you work with a keyboard you will be well served by mastering that tool.
dorfsmay 7y ago
I disagree, reading speed at full comprehension level can slow you down and accelerate everything you do. I'm an extremely slow reader and that has been a major bottleneck in my life, it has slowed me down in everything I do and everything I've been interested in. Bill Gates is rumored to read several books per weeks and fully understand and remember most details. That in itself isn't enough to have made him who he is, but I'm sure it helps. If I could get one thing from him that's what I'd pick, yes over money and programing abilities, reading slowly is that delibitating.
- Reedx 7y ago
  Yeah, certainly. That's why I said "not really" instead of an absolute statement, to leave room for cases like that (and I probably should've been more clear). But for the most part input speed isn't the bottleneck that people get stuck at indefinitely. And it's also possible for this to change. With programming, for example, if you lose the use of a hand, you quickly find out typing speed is the new bottleneck.
samatman 7y ago
Between documentation, comments, issues, miscellaneous emails, and chat, I would be shocked if half the typing I do for a living is actual source code. I can't imagine doing this job without fast and accurate typing, just like I can't imagine sharing this comment if it took me longer than 45 seconds to type it out.

Reading speed strikes me similarly to typing speed when it comes to programming. It's fun to read/type fast, but it's not really the bottleneck.

by Reedx 7y ago

Reading speed strikes me similarly to typing speed when it comes to programming. It's fun to read/type fast, but it's not really the bottleneck.

quickthrower2 7y ago

The best way to speed read is if the writer reduces the number of words required to communicate and educate. Of course this takes extra effort, and is also goes against human perception of value. E.g. if you reduced Tim Ferris's book to a single sheet of A4 you could get the point across, but who's going to pay $20 or so for a sheet of A4? Well some execs might pay $2000 - but you won't sell millions of copies like that. Anyway... To sum it up that book: To work fewer hours per week in the long term, set up a business, and figure out how to automate, speed up and delegate as much of the work as possible. Imagine a few cool inspiration inducing anecdotes alluding to a cool lifestyle. Read elsewhere for the bit about how to set up a successful business in the first place, or the details of how to automate and delegate effectively. There you go - 200 or so pages you don't need to read :-)

Reedx 7y ago
That's something I've been wondering about. How many non-fiction books could be reduced by 90% and still communicate 90% of the ideas? I feel like we're losing a lot of time and potential due to filler pages.
- Swizec 7y ago
  Business books (most good writing actually) are frontloaded. The first paragraph tells you the gist, the first page the important ideas, the first chapter most of what the book has to offer. The rest is there to go into detail and support that first chapter with facts arguments and anecdotes. But here’s the kicker: you often won’t fully grok the first chapter if you don’t read the rest. (or don’t already know it from other sources)
- baddox 7y ago
  It’s interesting that you specify non-fiction, presumably since part of the point of reading fiction is the process of reading itself rather than simply the plot that unfolds. But of course, that’s also true of non-fiction books. Many people probably enjoy the process of reading Tim Ferris’ books.
  - lsc 7y ago
    >It’s interesting that you specify non-fiction, presumably since part of the point of reading fiction is the process of reading itself rather than simply the plot that unfolds there's all sorts of "reduced Shakespeare" - most of it more parody than summary, but there is a tradition of summarizing literature and fiction, and the results are not always devoid of literary merit on their own.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  I read a book that could literally be summed up in a sentence (it was called "the asshole rule" or something similar, and the gist was "don't hire assholes"). There was nothing at all in addition to that, except for a bunch of feel-good anecdotes and specious data that misrepresented correlation for causation. I hated it so much that I made a (now defunct) website where I would post summaries of these books so people wouldn't have to be subjected to all the filler.
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    Content bloat with needless crap seems to have happened to novels, movies and tv shows. It’s interesting to read penguin classics - maybe they don’t represent their respective eras, but they are usually (very subjectively) quite short.
    - EncryptEntropy 7y ago
      Don’t forget music, tutorials, HN long winded comments, and every single other form of medium in which someone is selling you something.
  - godelski 7y ago
    Sounds like the book was doing something different though. Why should you believe that one sentence? The author has to sell you on the idea and demonstrate why it is a bad idea to hire assholes. A singular sentence isn't going to be enough to convince you, and it shouldn't be.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - kaybe 7y ago
      I'd want a definition of 'asshole' as well, and a ranking of asshole characteristics to weigh against positive traits, and how to correct them where possible. The topic does warrant more than just a sentence.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  A lot of non-fiction is about trying to make a case or prove some thesis. As such, a book may try to show lots of evidence, deal with many potential counter arguments, or demonstrate that different lines of analysis lead to the same conclusion. If you become convinced of the thesis early on a lot of the book can seem redundant. When I find myself in such a position I usually just stop reading but include the ideas I got out of it in my notes. Later, if I find myself needing the details I skipped, it's easy to go back.
- shanemhansen 7y ago
  That's what Reader's Digest did: summarize.
- brownbat 7y ago
  There are "X for busy people" series that provide abbreviated summaries of the core ideas in popular works of nonfiction. I suppose the gamble is that it's hard to know which nonfiction are mostly fluff in advance though.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dorfsmay 7y ago
  Yes, in that sense Wikipedia is one of the greatest human achievement. I wish it had been around when I grew up!
sinuhe69 7y ago
One way to verify your thesis is to read summary books. If they do it diligently and industriously, all books will look alike and contain just common senses. Like Blinkists ;)
clement_b 7y ago
These guys [0] do what you're talking about. They digest non fictional books, summarize them and even turn them into audio books. Quite good to go straight to the main points without missing anything important. [0] https://www.blinkist.com/ https://www.blinkist.com/

sweeneyrod 7y ago

Time spent typing might not be a bottleneck, but I think latency between thinking and having code can be. Typing quickly isn't the only way to reduce that latency though.

haecceity 7y ago

It depends on what you're programming as well. I suspect for cases when you can type faster than you think you'd be able to use a macro or some IDE snippet feature for it.

scarejunba 7y ago

Actually, I'd say they're different because of their position in cache. The reason it doesn't work for reading unfamiliar material is that you don't have the information yet. You need to assimilate to build the picture. In fact, I recall speed reading material I was familiar with and absolutely achieving significant comprehension. Writing is different. Increasing throughput almost has continuous gains all the way to blitting to computer. This makes sense. Everything is hot cached. Right now everything between my thoughts and the machine is just in the way.

Buttons840 7y ago

I've worked with some programmers who were so slow at typing I would find myself reluctant to help them with their "hands on" work, like directing them to try something in the REPL for example, or even just asking them to run a shell command. It was a struggle for me not to excuse myself as soon as possible once they started typing. They seemingly couldn't get a single word out without a typo, and would frequently hunt down other places in the code so they could copy paste that 6 character variable name, etc. Being able to type 30~40 WPM is good enough though, no need to be super speedy.

hanoz 7y ago
> couldn't get a single word out without a typo, and would frequently hunt down other places in the code so they could copy paste that 6 character variable name The latter seems a good strategy for coping with the former, does it not?
- leetcrew 7y ago
  it's more like a pathological workaround. it's similar to people who spend years doing "hunt and peck" typing. if you practice enough, you can get up to a decent speed, but you would have been much better off taking a couple weeks to become a mediocre touch typist.
  - Intermernet 7y ago
    I was a mediocre touch typist, and then spent many years doing hands on, IT support. I usually had to type on other people's keyboards while I was offset to one side, or even on the other side of the desk. I'm now a terrible touch typist, but a pretty good upside down, one handed typist!
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  It requires more effort and more precision. So I'll say no. Having trouble with something and compensating by doing a more difficult task is only a good coping strategy when it's something you very rarely have to do.

kortex 7y ago

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. This applies to surprisingly many tasks in life. That said, I've been pushing to hit 100 wpm typing with minimal typos for years just because it's a nice round number and I keep ending up just shy. Character typos aren't even that big of a deal, as I find a good chunk of mistakes are actually "thought-os" where I type in the completely wrong giraffe. So being able to recover dynamically from misakes is valuable too.

Mirioron 7y ago
I wonder why some people type faster. If tested, I average around 125 wpm in reasonable tests (625 cpm really). I've never tried to learn to type quickly. I've never had anything beyond a $10 keyboard and I don't even type like it's taught (my hands overlap on some characters). Despite that I type quite fast with few errors - most of my mistakes are also related to typing in something completely different. It was quite shocking to me when I found out that my friends typed at below 80 wpm when trying to type fast.
- mewpmewp2 7y ago
  Did you learn the proper technique at an early age? As in not looking at the keyboard and using all 10 fingers. This is what I did and I feel it has been a huge advantage for me.
Intermernet 7y ago
Pretty sure you meant giraffe instead of giraffe, but I may be misaken ;-)

ergocoder 7y ago

This is true to some degree. I'd like to think of a better analogy. Typing in programming is like running in soccer. It's definitely a problem if you type slowly or can't type for a long period of time. Passing the certain speed and endurance, typing faster doesn't help much. It's the same with soccer.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
twic 7y ago
I think it's like Amdahl's Law. Programming is thinking followed by typing. If you spend half your time thinking and half your time typing, then doubling your typing speed will increase your programming speed by a third. But doubling it again will only increase your programming speed by a sixth, and even with infinite typing speed, you've only doubled your programming speed.

elfexec 7y ago

It has its uses, but you aren't going to speed read poetry, literature, etc and get much out of it. The same thing with memory maps and other tricks. They have their limited uses, but aren't a panacea for learning and knowledge.

heisenbit 7y ago

And like programming the biggest speedup comes from the letters never typed/read. Quality matters so much more.

weeksie 7y ago

Being quick on the keyboard is about reducing friction. The faster I can physically manipulate an idea in space and the more automatic it is, the less cognitive overhead I have to waste on the process. If you work with a keyboard you will be well served by mastering that tool.

dorfsmay 7y ago

I disagree, reading speed at full comprehension level can slow you down and accelerate everything you do. I'm an extremely slow reader and that has been a major bottleneck in my life, it has slowed me down in everything I do and everything I've been interested in. Bill Gates is rumored to read several books per weeks and fully understand and remember most details. That in itself isn't enough to have made him who he is, but I'm sure it helps. If I could get one thing from him that's what I'd pick, yes over money and programing abilities, reading slowly is that delibitating.

Reedx 7y ago
Yeah, certainly. That's why I said "not really" instead of an absolute statement, to leave room for cases like that (and I probably should've been more clear). But for the most part input speed isn't the bottleneck that people get stuck at indefinitely. And it's also possible for this to change. With programming, for example, if you lose the use of a hand, you quickly find out typing speed is the new bottleneck.

samatman 7y ago

Between documentation, comments, issues, miscellaneous emails, and chat, I would be shocked if half the typing I do for a living is actual source code. I can't imagine doing this job without fast and accurate typing, just like I can't imagine sharing this comment if it took me longer than 45 seconds to type it out.