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A New York railroad uses lasers to stay on schedule
- DonHopkins 7y agoThat test rig in the video looks like a low-tech electro-mechanical Dieselpunk version of SG-1!
- Scoundreller 7y agoSeems like they found a kickstarter promoter to do their video.
- Scoundreller 7y agoWould be cool if they could blast a cloud of heat whenever going over a switch. There are lots of remote switches that just have a big propane tank to keep them clear of ice. Because switching shakes the train around, sometimes a block of ice from an ice storm 1000km away can dislodge and jam a switch until it’s clear or melts away.
- delfinom 7y ago>There are lots of remote switches that just have a big propane tank to keep them clear of ice. Except the switch has to be in the correct position first to get a train over it. The rail lines in NY including the subway just use natural gas heaters on most switches.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoSame in Chicago with Metra commuter rail, still lots of switching issues in the winter. Hard problem to solve, even with the liberal application of heat.
- hermitdev 7y agoOne of my favorite sights when I was commuting into Chicago - seeing a large section of switches a little North West of Oglivie lit on fire. I presume they use kerosene.
- Scoundreller 7y agoYou may enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z76ywZDXyPw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z76ywZDXyPw
- gsnedders 7y agoIn much of Europe electric heaters are used in much the same way. The American practice of using natural gas heaters always seems… crazy to many of us. (Especially in areas where there's already electrical supply!)
- Scoundreller 7y agoGas is cheap in America and it's not like Russia can flip a switch and make us shiver.
- catalogia 7y agoElectric makes sense if you've got a good clean source of power like nuclear, solar or wind. But if you're getting power by burning fossil fuels then it seems more efficient to use that heat directly rather than to use the heat to generate steam to turn a turbine to turn a generator to produce electricity, and then turn that electricity back into heat again.
- Scoundreller 7y agoFor indoor heating, sure, but these are outdoor switches. Propane/natural gas switch heating is like sitting in-front of a campfire, while electric would be like having a heating pad on your skin. Or maybe the electric ones are just blowers too with one central heating point and a bunch of vents. Dunno.
- zdragnar 7y agoElectric heating pad and tape usually have a pretty short lifespan; the kind you might get to prevent ice dams on old, poorly insulated eaves / roofs might maybe last 5 years if you have cold winters. Higher grade industrial elements might last longer, but nat. gas is going to be significantly more cost effective in the US
- catalogia 7y agoSome of the electric heaters are blowers (https://www.rwy.com/products-rwy/track-heaters-accessories/electric-hot-air-blowers/ https://www.rwy.com/products-rwy/track-heaters-accessories/e...) while others use heating elements in direct contact with the tracks (https://spectruminfrared.com/railroad-products-and-track-switch-heaters/flat-jacket-snow-melters-and-crib-heaters/ https://spectruminfrared.com/railroad-products-and-track-swi...). I suspect any of these mechanisms, however they work, are going to be wildly inefficient. The very premise of melting ice outside in the winter on big pieces of metal exposed to the elements seems like a huge energy sink. Whether electric heating is sufficiently more efficient to offset the inefficiencies in power generation and transmission I couldn't say, but it's far from clear to me that the 'American method' of using propane is crazy.
- bowmessage 7y agoWonder why they can't add these roof-scraping systems that semi trucks use: https://media2.giphy.com/media/Vrg6gYOK0AO6A/giphy.gif https://media2.giphy.com/media/Vrg6gYOK0AO6A/giphy.gif (on a long straight bit)
- mstade 7y agoFor dry leaves this would be fine I’m sure, but the problem is wet leaves which essentially turn to slime that would just be spread along the track by a system like that. If you’re in a locale where leaves fall in the autumn, next time you’re out on after a rainy day find some half decomposed leaves around a puddle and you’ll see. They break apart into a very slippery goo.
- yellow_lead 7y agoWhy don't they just put a leaf blower on the front of the train? Maybe a dumb question. Could be due to stuck wet leaves?
- dokem 7y agoThe leaves are often partially decomposed into a sticky slime that end up compressed to the tracks from what I’ve read elsewhere.
- gsnedders 7y agoThis. Actual dry leaves that can be blown off really aren't the trouble, it's wet ones that quickly turn into sludge and just get compressed into slicker and slicker slime that provides no traction. The current solution in most of the world is essentially high-pressure jets of water to clean the rail; obviously you eventually reach a point where you don't have enough pressure to dislodge the goop.
- ars 7y agoWhat about a nylon brush?
- khr 7y agoMy non-engineer guess is that a nylon brush would be shaved down pretty quickly by rail contact at typical train speeds, so that it would be ineffective at removing debris after a very short time.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- gsnedders 7y agoPlus I imagine it'll apply nowhere near as much pressure on the track, so you'd end up needing a lot of brushes and then they'd all be wearing down quickly at 60mph or so.
- matt_the_bass 7y agoThis seems like a Great idea.
- zaroth 7y agoIt’s amazing that this isn’t a fire risk. In California they turn off the electricity when the wind blows during the dry season, and in NE we fire freaking laser beams at the leaves to eviscerate them.
- cbhl 7y agoThe New York trains I remember would make sparks all the time; I would suggest any dry tinder near the tracks would be a risk either way. California has electrical wires entangled with dry trees after years of drought. (Trees are tricky, since it takes years after installation for them to grow tall enough to reach the power lines. In the NE I've seen power outages caused by tree branches laden with ice from freezing rain sever power lines.)
- DonHopkins 7y agoWhy don't the same crews who rake the forests also rake the train tracks? ;)
- catalogia 7y agoMost places aren't nearly as flammable as California. Where I grew up people don't think twice about making a camp fire, but apparently that seems next to inconceivable to some people in California. Hell, many places have too much fresh water, not too little. "Dry season" isn't even a concept in many parts of the world.
- PhasmaFelis 7y agoThe east coast doesn't have a "dry season" in any sense California would recognize. If it did this system might not be needed: it sounds like the problem is wet leaves being compressed into lubricant slime where dry leaves would just be crushed to powder.
- StanislavPetrov 7y agoThe LIRR doesn't run in areas conducive to catching fire. They literally use open flames to defrost the rails when it gets cold. https://media.wired.com/photos/5932717eb8eb31692072f8f8/master/w_1680,c_limit/Autopia-Train-track-flames.jpg https://media.wired.com/photos/5932717eb8eb31692072f8f8/mast...
- cbhl 7y agoI noticed they needed eye protection in the lab. I'd love to see how they avoid needing eye protection for people near the train tracks in the field (presumably some shielding and very careful laser alignment?). I'd be particularly interested in whether the lasers are safe on overhead tracks near populated areas (certain MTA lines in New York are like this).
- wavefunction 7y agoI imagine the laser undergoes significant decoherence in practice.
- IIAOPSW 7y agoNo one is doing quantum leaf removal. I think you mean dispersion.
- amarshall 7y agoElevated tracks probably don’t have much of a problem with leaves falling on them due to their height. The NYCT does presently use “gel” trains on on-ground tracks, but I’ve no idea if they use them on elevated tracks.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- StanislavPetrov 7y agoAnyone who lives on Long Island or takes the LIRR will let out a bitter laugh at this article. > 90.7 percent of trains were on time in November, an improvement of 3.8 percent over last year The metrics used by the LIRR were so disconnected from reality that the state actually passed a law this year mandating that they had to adopt meaningful standards. https://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/mta-lirr-on-time-measurements-1.29259736 https://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/mta-lirr-... The entire LIRR system is plagued by cancellations and delays on a daily basis. There's nothing quite like standing on the train platform looking at the little digital sign that says, "the 7:08 to PENN is on time" while you look at your phone and see its 7:25 and the train is still nowhere in sight. https://twitter.com/LIRR https://twitter.com/LIRR
- sandworm101 7y agoThis is not new tech. Lasers have been cleaning rails in Europe for years, mabey a decade or more. If anything, this is only new in the US. It is not unproven tech and those involved are being disingenuous in describing it as so. https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a11649/dutch-railways-laser-clean-train-tracks/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a... 2002 https://www.laserfocusworld.com/fiber-optics/article/16552393/ndyag-laser-removes-leaves-from-rails https://www.laserfocusworld.com/fiber-optics/article/1655239... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh6U4QJmutA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh6U4QJmutA "all thanks to pioneering laser technology that most railroads are too scared to try out." No. Most railroads are not scared of lasers. Those with the business case for this tech use it. Those without do not. Maybe "most" American railroads don't use these things but the reasons behind that are probably more political than fear-based. From 2014: "North American freight railroads, in general, have accepted the degraded performance debris can cause. Most of the current solutions are not efficient for the amount of territory and service required. A road vehicle with rail wheels based cleaning system would be most useful, allowing one or two workers to concentrate on the worst locations and move between trouble spots quickly. - Steven Belforti, Guilford Rail System" https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429984-800-locked-on-lasers-burn-through-leaves-on-train-lines/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429984-800-locked-o...
- _Microft 7y agoThere is a video about laser rust removal which is quite amazing. It doesn't even seem to hurt flesh as the operator intentionally runs it over their hand, around the 1 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACGSzBXKONo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACGSzBXKONo
- mstade 7y agoThat’s amazing! Now if only there was something like this wood surfaces, I’d have a blast (no pun intended) working on my boat then!