6 ms·

Wait until 5G rolls out into mass adoption where an IoT modem is built into every TV for “diagnostics”

xenospn 7y ago
I've literally never had a TV break or stop working. Ever. Especially with the new mass produced panels, what sort of Diagnostics or remote analysis could they POSSIBLY be doing?
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  That's sarcasm and/or corporate-speak, just like every software nowadays has telemetry and diagnostics and yet the quality of it is much lower than a decade ago before any of this BS. Just that if they called it by stalking and/or marketing tracking there would be an outcry, so "diagnostics" it is.
- mosselman 7y ago
  Exactly
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Had one fail: a flex cable went loose. Just reinserted them all back in and voila. The LEDs or drivers sometimes die, but replacements are usually available from ebay or aliexpress. Funny how one of the repairers found that his 120V only LCD TV had a 120/240 power supply board nonetheless.
- toast0 7y ago
  One of my TVs would regularly lock up when trying to decode a particular iffy signal over the air. In theory, a core dump could have helped fix that. In reality, that tv got zero updates. Another tv had some bad joints on the panel, but remote diagnostics weren't going to help with big giant vertical lines.
- ksangeelee 7y ago
  With more than a hint of irony, the only TV I had 'break' was when Sony's telemetry server went down, and my Bravia TV failed to turn on. It wasn't until I happened to unplug the Ethernet cable that it suddenly started working again. This was a little under ten years ago.
- sys_64738 7y ago
  My dumb Samsung did way back in 2011. It was a POS and I vowed never to buy another Samsung TV ever again. This gives me further reason to hate Samsung.
A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
This is the only thing that mildly concerns me. Now I can just not connect. In the future, it may simply not be an option.
- ianai 7y ago
  I’m sure the antennae will be impossible to physically disconnect as well. I really hoped we’d never get to Fahrenheit 451 but the wall to wall TVs that watch you are pretty close at hand.
  - zingermc 7y ago
    One terrible but effective solution is to turn your home into a Faraday cage.
    - boring_twenties 7y ago
      Why terrible? Your own wifi would still work inside the cage, would it not? As would your Internet uplink over cable/fiber/DSL/whatever. The only downside would seem to be cell phone service, but you could just use VoIP and Wifi for that while inside the house. The real downside of course would be the cost. Shit, maybe I'll need to get a real job again after all...
    - Cougher 7y ago
      I'd like for just one of these people offering the "solution" of turning our homes into faraday cages to show us that they've actually done this with their homes.
      - sudosysgen 7y ago
        I would do it. I get cell service over WiFi. It has absolutely no downsides for me.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    They'll be traces in a PCB, you will probably be able to cut the trace (and fry the transmitter).
wil421 7y ago
What makes 5G so much different than an LTE modem for this type of application? If they were going to do this why wouldn’t it already be happening with LTE.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  The signal should travel through walls better. It’s wider bandwidth and faster nitrate so it should be cheaper. All things equal with both factors above it should take less power (if for nothing else radio is on shorter time). If not part of the spec itself, it likely will coincide with from the get go. I have to agree that IoT (bleh. Coming from someone with an in-development connected device) will only become bigger with 5G.
  - creato 7y ago
    > The signal should travel through walls better. I'm pretty sure this is exactly the opposite: the shorter wavelength signals in 5G are line of sight, much more so than 4G.
    - samstave 7y ago
      I think this is why there is a decidedly specific marketing push talking about how 5G is going to really bring high speed to rural areas. Its slightly subtle, but not so much, in the commercials - but you can see that its there - and I believe its a CYA thing. Now imagine when 5G is mature, and coverage is blanketed AND the Drone ID legislation is passed.
      - Scoundreller 7y ago
        I think the reality is that 5G could would enable telecoms to bypass physical to the home infrastructure entirely, further locking you into them. Until regulators force them to become dumb pipes; as they often have for physical infrastructure.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
kstrauser 7y ago
I have a ham radio license. If/when this happens, I eagerly look forward to using what I’ve picked up to figure out how to kill this with fire. In all likelihood, a piece of thin metal plate taped to the case in the right place will probably be all that’s needed.
- samstave 7y ago
  Curious; How to test and verify it is working?
- ohazi 7y ago
  And then the next generation will have signed firmware that doesn't allow the device to start until the spy packets go out and the response is received. We need to kill these companies and their business models. As fun as it is for smart people like us to perform one-off lobotomies, it doesn't solve the problem.
  - heavyset_go 7y ago
    > And then the next generation will have signed firmware that doesn't allow the device to start until the spy packets go out and the response is received. Some Chromecast products already won't function unless they can talk to Google DNS servers[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19170671 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19170671
    - BLKNSLVR 7y ago
      It's possible to redirect DNS requests to a server of your own choosing in order to get around this. But the fact that doing so is severely limited to those with the technical knowledge and ability means it's still not a forgivable situation. It also scares me as to what the future holds when such devices are hard coded with a DNS server using DoH.
      - heavyset_go 7y ago
        > It's possible to redirect DNS requests to a server of your own choosing in order to get around this. I've dug into this, and this is true for certain models and firmware versions, but not for others.

I've literally never had a TV break or stop working. Ever. Especially with the new mass produced panels, what sort of Diagnostics or remote analysis could they POSSIBLY be doing?

Nextgrid 7y ago
That's sarcasm and/or corporate-speak, just like every software nowadays has telemetry and diagnostics and yet the quality of it is much lower than a decade ago before any of this BS. Just that if they called it by stalking and/or marketing tracking there would be an outcry, so "diagnostics" it is.
mosselman 7y ago
Exactly
Scoundreller 7y ago
Had one fail: a flex cable went loose. Just reinserted them all back in and voila. The LEDs or drivers sometimes die, but replacements are usually available from ebay or aliexpress. Funny how one of the repairers found that his 120V only LCD TV had a 120/240 power supply board nonetheless.
toast0 7y ago
One of my TVs would regularly lock up when trying to decode a particular iffy signal over the air. In theory, a core dump could have helped fix that. In reality, that tv got zero updates. Another tv had some bad joints on the panel, but remote diagnostics weren't going to help with big giant vertical lines.
ksangeelee 7y ago
With more than a hint of irony, the only TV I had 'break' was when Sony's telemetry server went down, and my Bravia TV failed to turn on. It wasn't until I happened to unplug the Ethernet cable that it suddenly started working again. This was a little under ten years ago.
sys_64738 7y ago
My dumb Samsung did way back in 2011. It was a POS and I vowed never to buy another Samsung TV ever again. This gives me further reason to hate Samsung.

A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago

This is the only thing that mildly concerns me. Now I can just not connect. In the future, it may simply not be an option.

ianai 7y ago
I’m sure the antennae will be impossible to physically disconnect as well. I really hoped we’d never get to Fahrenheit 451 but the wall to wall TVs that watch you are pretty close at hand.
- zingermc 7y ago
  One terrible but effective solution is to turn your home into a Faraday cage.
  - boring_twenties 7y ago
    Why terrible? Your own wifi would still work inside the cage, would it not? As would your Internet uplink over cable/fiber/DSL/whatever. The only downside would seem to be cell phone service, but you could just use VoIP and Wifi for that while inside the house. The real downside of course would be the cost. Shit, maybe I'll need to get a real job again after all...
  - Cougher 7y ago
    I'd like for just one of these people offering the "solution" of turning our homes into faraday cages to show us that they've actually done this with their homes.
    - sudosysgen 7y ago
      I would do it. I get cell service over WiFi. It has absolutely no downsides for me.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  They'll be traces in a PCB, you will probably be able to cut the trace (and fry the transmitter).

wil421 7y ago

What makes 5G so much different than an LTE modem for this type of application? If they were going to do this why wouldn’t it already be happening with LTE.

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
The signal should travel through walls better. It’s wider bandwidth and faster nitrate so it should be cheaper. All things equal with both factors above it should take less power (if for nothing else radio is on shorter time). If not part of the spec itself, it likely will coincide with from the get go. I have to agree that IoT (bleh. Coming from someone with an in-development connected device) will only become bigger with 5G.
- creato 7y ago
  > The signal should travel through walls better. I'm pretty sure this is exactly the opposite: the shorter wavelength signals in 5G are line of sight, much more so than 4G.
  - samstave 7y ago
    I think this is why there is a decidedly specific marketing push talking about how 5G is going to really bring high speed to rural areas. Its slightly subtle, but not so much, in the commercials - but you can see that its there - and I believe its a CYA thing. Now imagine when 5G is mature, and coverage is blanketed AND the Drone ID legislation is passed.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      I think the reality is that 5G could would enable telecoms to bypass physical to the home infrastructure entirely, further locking you into them. Until regulators force them to become dumb pipes; as they often have for physical infrastructure.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago

kstrauser 7y ago

I have a ham radio license. If/when this happens, I eagerly look forward to using what I’ve picked up to figure out how to kill this with fire. In all likelihood, a piece of thin metal plate taped to the case in the right place will probably be all that’s needed.

samstave 7y ago
Curious; How to test and verify it is working?
ohazi 7y ago
And then the next generation will have signed firmware that doesn't allow the device to start until the spy packets go out and the response is received. We need to kill these companies and their business models. As fun as it is for smart people like us to perform one-off lobotomies, it doesn't solve the problem.
- heavyset_go 7y ago
  > And then the next generation will have signed firmware that doesn't allow the device to start until the spy packets go out and the response is received. Some Chromecast products already won't function unless they can talk to Google DNS servers[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19170671 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19170671
  - BLKNSLVR 7y ago
    It's possible to redirect DNS requests to a server of your own choosing in order to get around this. But the fact that doing so is severely limited to those with the technical knowledge and ability means it's still not a forgivable situation. It also scares me as to what the future holds when such devices are hard coded with a DNS server using DoH.
    - heavyset_go 7y ago
      > It's possible to redirect DNS requests to a server of your own choosing in order to get around this. I've dug into this, and this is true for certain models and firmware versions, but not for others.