7 ms·

Germany Calls for European Firewall Against U.S. Sanctions

49 points by jtangelder 7y ago

jtangelder 7y ago
Full article at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/egorb9/comment/fc82ydj https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/egorb9/comment/fc82...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
secondo 7y ago
When tariffs are used as a mechanism to create unfair advantages for US entities over foreign states’ instead of even pretending it’s under the veil of US freedom policy not even your old pals will put up with it.
etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
The politics on this issue seem quite confusing. It might point to a lot of internal infighting within the politics of both Europe and the US.
- Tomte 7y ago
  While Nord Stream 2 is obviously beneficial to Germany (cheaper gas than from the US), there are two totally different interests working against the project: * The Eastern European states (and especially Ukraine) want Germany to rely on pipelines going through their countries, so that Germany – as a big player – can be relied on to be working with those states when there is a conflict with Russia. (I find that interest well-founded and a debatable reason to refrain from building the pipeline) * The United States want Germany to buy more (liquefied) gas from them. Quite a few gas terminals have been built in recent years, and America is keen on selling its oil to Europe, because with all that fracking they aim to be a primary supplier of gas in the world. (I do not consider that a valid reason, and if it were the only one, Nord Stream 2 would be a no-brainer, in my opinion). It's all been complicated even further by Germany rushing this along without consulting (or at least not diplomatically working with) other EU member states, including France, which likes to put its foot down, since Germany is the big rival (and now that the UK is gone, the only real rival on the European stage).
H8crilA 7y ago
It is beyond me for the German state to call for "EU unity" because of a project that is essentially a huge "fuck you" to Eastern Europe. If anything the EU should back the US sanctions to protect unity, as weird as it sounds.
jplayer01 7y ago
This is all about German politicians who've been bought out by Russian interests trying to protect their pet project(s). Speaking as a German, the fact that Germany would rather deal with and be reliant on a country like Russia is, frankly, insane and incredibly shameful. It's as if Ukraine didn't happen, nor Russian interference of elections across the Western world. For all the bad that the US does, at least they don't invade and annex European countries, and try to undermine European politics.
- pointillistic 7y ago
  One would think that with it's communist history Germany would be on the side of the Western Values. In addition Globalism hollowed out the western know-how,via cut and paste to China. Germany stands to lose from it the most with precision manufacturing being transferred to China. Markel is picking the wrong friends.
  - rbinv 7y ago
    I assume you're referring to the KPD and maybe the DDR (GDR), but overall, Germany has been anything but communist.
- nickbauman 7y ago
  This cannot be overstated. Russia is a Mafia State: Where the Russian Mafia == Russian Government. This is not a country you cozy up with. It will not end well.
  - nickbauman 7y ago
    Can someone explain to me why this being downvoted? Is the assertion of Russia being a Mafia State in question?
- mschuster91 7y ago
  > For all the bad that the US does, at least they don't invade and annex European countries, and try to undermine European politics. Another German here. I find Putin and Russia absolutely revolting, but that last part is utter propaganda. The US has meddled in European politics for decades - just take Trump's stupid whining against BMW or Bush/Obama's complaints about NATO budget or us Germans not joining the fun in Iraq.
praptak 7y ago
This particular case is pretty bad for getting EU to unite. Nordstream is contentious within EU too - it's basically a way for Russia to threaten Poland with the gas cutoff without endangering their business with Germany.
koksik202 7y ago
Since US is starting to be a supplier of gas to Central European counties such as Poland via the gas carrying vessels and some countries trying to gain energy independence from Russia it becomes an interest of US not to lose the newly acquired buyers of their gas. Then it is problematic for countries like Germany that they can't boost the import because of US interference
jokoon 7y ago
Sometimes I wonder if the US and the EU are really friendly to each other.
- hackeraccount 7y ago
  Probably path dependence as much as anything else.
Giorgi 7y ago
Germany sounds like corrupted shithole digging deep into Russians ass
ConsiderCrying 7y ago
Openly calling for cooperation with Russia and China, of all places, should be political suicide. But it seems like the message of 'let's protect ourselves from /insert boogeyman/' still works well enough to muddy public opinion. The sanctions are there for a reason and saying that you need protection against them is like saying 'well, they did a bad thing and got a slap on the wrist, the obvious conclusion is to keep doing bad things but fend off the slaps'.
syshum 7y ago
Germany's influence over the EU is one of the reasons Brexit Happened, and will likely lead to more nations leaving the EU
theredbox 7y ago
We need the US to step in for Eastern Europe. We need a reliable partner that is at least very direct and honest about its interests unlike Germany that is all about german interests while preaching european unity and values. Seriously Germany has been destroying my part of Europe for way too long! No more! I would rather deal with the american way of life than being forced to live the german way.
chestermacwerth 7y ago
It turns out that Germany has been adversarial toward the US throughout its history. This"German call for European unity against the US" is almost identical to their opposition in the Spanish-American War.
richliss 7y ago
The disrespect that Germany is showing the US is mind boggling. The US being part of NATO is the greatest deal the other countries have ever signed/received. The US spends nearly $700 Billion per year compared to Germany’s nearly $56 Billion per year on its military. The US needs to start sending ultimatums - you are either part of NATO and therefore don’t enrich Russia by buying their resources and pay your fair share (2%) at the very least or we’re going to pull out of NATO and have a treaty with just Estonia, Greece, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Britain who all meet the treaty conditions of 2% and don’t whine. If NATO ended and Germany had to build up and army capable of defending itself against Russia it would cost way more than 2% per year. All Europeans need to understand the financial burden US tax payers meet to keep us safe. I think the Brits realise how important it is and the Poles and the Baltic’s do because they know what it’s like to live under Russian military fear.
- Youden 7y ago
  > The US spends nearly $700 Billion per year compared to Germany’s nearly $56 Billion per year on its military. The US spends that much by choice, not necessity. > All Europeans need to understand the financial burden US tax payers meet to keep us safe. Safe from what? The US military hasn't fought to protect anybody since WWII and there's frankly no realistic threat that Europe needs to be protected from. The EU already spends three times as much on its military as Russia and two (soon to be one) EU members are nuclear states.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
    And the US's recent meddling in the Middle East arguably made things “worse” in Europe, if the large number of refugees is to be considered a problem.
HershelBronev 7y ago
I wanna know more about
HershelBronev 7y ago
sorry, I'm new in this social

49 points by jtangelder 7y ago

Full article at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/egorb9/comment/fc82ydj https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/egorb9/comment/fc82...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

secondo 7y ago

When tariffs are used as a mechanism to create unfair advantages for US entities over foreign states’ instead of even pretending it’s under the veil of US freedom policy not even your old pals will put up with it.

etaioinshrdlu 7y ago

The politics on this issue seem quite confusing. It might point to a lot of internal infighting within the politics of both Europe and the US.

Tomte 7y ago
While Nord Stream 2 is obviously beneficial to Germany (cheaper gas than from the US), there are two totally different interests working against the project: * The Eastern European states (and especially Ukraine) want Germany to rely on pipelines going through their countries, so that Germany – as a big player – can be relied on to be working with those states when there is a conflict with Russia. (I find that interest well-founded and a debatable reason to refrain from building the pipeline) * The United States want Germany to buy more (liquefied) gas from them. Quite a few gas terminals have been built in recent years, and America is keen on selling its oil to Europe, because with all that fracking they aim to be a primary supplier of gas in the world. (I do not consider that a valid reason, and if it were the only one, Nord Stream 2 would be a no-brainer, in my opinion). It's all been complicated even further by Germany rushing this along without consulting (or at least not diplomatically working with) other EU member states, including France, which likes to put its foot down, since Germany is the big rival (and now that the UK is gone, the only real rival on the European stage).

H8crilA 7y ago

It is beyond me for the German state to call for "EU unity" because of a project that is essentially a huge "fuck you" to Eastern Europe. If anything the EU should back the US sanctions to protect unity, as weird as it sounds.

jplayer01 7y ago

This is all about German politicians who've been bought out by Russian interests trying to protect their pet project(s). Speaking as a German, the fact that Germany would rather deal with and be reliant on a country like Russia is, frankly, insane and incredibly shameful. It's as if Ukraine didn't happen, nor Russian interference of elections across the Western world. For all the bad that the US does, at least they don't invade and annex European countries, and try to undermine European politics.

pointillistic 7y ago
One would think that with it's communist history Germany would be on the side of the Western Values. In addition Globalism hollowed out the western know-how,via cut and paste to China. Germany stands to lose from it the most with precision manufacturing being transferred to China. Markel is picking the wrong friends.
- rbinv 7y ago
  I assume you're referring to the KPD and maybe the DDR (GDR), but overall, Germany has been anything but communist.
nickbauman 7y ago
This cannot be overstated. Russia is a Mafia State: Where the Russian Mafia == Russian Government. This is not a country you cozy up with. It will not end well.
- nickbauman 7y ago
  Can someone explain to me why this being downvoted? Is the assertion of Russia being a Mafia State in question?
mschuster91 7y ago
> For all the bad that the US does, at least they don't invade and annex European countries, and try to undermine European politics. Another German here. I find Putin and Russia absolutely revolting, but that last part is utter propaganda. The US has meddled in European politics for decades - just take Trump's stupid whining against BMW or Bush/Obama's complaints about NATO budget or us Germans not joining the fun in Iraq.

praptak 7y ago

This particular case is pretty bad for getting EU to unite. Nordstream is contentious within EU too - it's basically a way for Russia to threaten Poland with the gas cutoff without endangering their business with Germany.

koksik202 7y ago

Since US is starting to be a supplier of gas to Central European counties such as Poland via the gas carrying vessels and some countries trying to gain energy independence from Russia it becomes an interest of US not to lose the newly acquired buyers of their gas. Then it is problematic for countries like Germany that they can't boost the import because of US interference

jokoon 7y ago

Sometimes I wonder if the US and the EU are really friendly to each other.

hackeraccount 7y ago
Probably path dependence as much as anything else.

Giorgi 7y ago

Germany sounds like corrupted shithole digging deep into Russians ass

ConsiderCrying 7y ago

Openly calling for cooperation with Russia and China, of all places, should be political suicide. But it seems like the message of 'let's protect ourselves from /insert boogeyman/' still works well enough to muddy public opinion. The sanctions are there for a reason and saying that you need protection against them is like saying 'well, they did a bad thing and got a slap on the wrist, the obvious conclusion is to keep doing bad things but fend off the slaps'.

syshum 7y ago

Germany's influence over the EU is one of the reasons Brexit Happened, and will likely lead to more nations leaving the EU

theredbox 7y ago

We need the US to step in for Eastern Europe. We need a reliable partner that is at least very direct and honest about its interests unlike Germany that is all about german interests while preaching european unity and values. Seriously Germany has been destroying my part of Europe for way too long! No more! I would rather deal with the american way of life than being forced to live the german way.

chestermacwerth 7y ago

It turns out that Germany has been adversarial toward the US throughout its history. This"German call for European unity against the US" is almost identical to their opposition in the Spanish-American War.

richliss 7y ago

The disrespect that Germany is showing the US is mind boggling. The US being part of NATO is the greatest deal the other countries have ever signed/received. The US spends nearly $700 Billion per year compared to Germany’s nearly $56 Billion per year on its military. The US needs to start sending ultimatums - you are either part of NATO and therefore don’t enrich Russia by buying their resources and pay your fair share (2%) at the very least or we’re going to pull out of NATO and have a treaty with just Estonia, Greece, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Britain who all meet the treaty conditions of 2% and don’t whine. If NATO ended and Germany had to build up and army capable of defending itself against Russia it would cost way more than 2% per year. All Europeans need to understand the financial burden US tax payers meet to keep us safe. I think the Brits realise how important it is and the Poles and the Baltic’s do because they know what it’s like to live under Russian military fear.

Youden 7y ago
> The US spends nearly $700 Billion per year compared to Germany’s nearly $56 Billion per year on its military. The US spends that much by choice, not necessity. > All Europeans need to understand the financial burden US tax payers meet to keep us safe. Safe from what? The US military hasn't fought to protect anybody since WWII and there's frankly no realistic threat that Europe needs to be protected from. The EU already spends three times as much on its military as Russia and two (soon to be one) EU members are nuclear states.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  And the US's recent meddling in the Middle East arguably made things “worse” in Europe, if the large number of refugees is to be considered a problem.

HershelBronev 7y ago

I wanna know more about

HershelBronev 7y ago

sorry, I'm new in this social