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Imagine if artificial wombs were possible. The government could control birth rates simply by producing children like they print money to increase inflation.

rolltiide 7y ago
I had that idea and someone recommended I read Brave New World I loved it sounds almost perfect! Ironic that its grouped with “dystopian futures” but that was news to me.
- anongraddebt 7y ago
  "The chains of nature... are called reason, freedom, morality and choice. The human chains foretold by Huxley are of a quite different composition: they are made entirely of flesh and the pleasures of the flesh. They bind so tightly that reason, choice and moral judgement can find no chink in which to grow and corrode them. So completely do they encircle the human soul that it shrinks to a tiny dot within the organism. There is no suffering in the Brave New World; no pain or doubt or terror. Nor is there happiness. It is a world of reliable and undemanding pleasures, from which the causes of suffering have been banished, and with them all striving, all hope, and all joy. But love is a cause of suffering; so too are freedom, judgement and choice. Hence these things too will disappear from the Brave New World."
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    There has to be someone else here that finds that perfect A completely hedonistic society with no consequence? Is everyone else focusing on different things? The only problem I had was the antiquated racial views of the author. The caste system too wasn’t necessary but it didn't bother me. The concept? Loved it!
    - anongraddebt 7y ago
      I am aware of the highly controversial views on homosexuality of the author (Scruton), but am unaware of anything controversial about race. Regardless, a person can say many deeply true things across a number of domains, yet be quite wrong in various places. From what I have read from him, this seems to be the case. Glad you liked that passage!
      - rolltiide 7y ago
        Yes, regarding the author I was referring to Huxley
elfexec 7y ago
For governments to completely control birth rates via artificial wombs/artificial births, they'd also need to neuter/spay the human population to prevent natural births. This would be simple for children of artificial births as the government could spay/neuter them at birth. But how would a government spay/neuter the naturally born population? Government handouts, tax incentives, compulsion? Get spayed/neutered for 20 years of no income tax? If we were to go the artificial wombs route, then human sexuality/desire/etc would no longer be needed and spaying/neutering should take care of that. But would that lead to more productivity, creativity and progress? Or would it hinder productivity, creativity and progress? The desire to mate/create is a powerful motivator for work and production. But it can also be a source of destruction and decay. Would we be better off like our pets - spayed and neutered and without any hope and urge for mating?
- imtringued 7y ago
  >But how would a government spay/neuter the naturally born population? Probably by making it very obvious that someone came from an artificial womb. Then you can have racism against "naturals".
programmarchy 7y ago
You’ve obviously never raised a child. The problem isn’t a lack of wombs or the first 9 months of childbearing.
- neetrain 7y ago
  As Japanese, I can say they are a few of the problems too. You can't take maternity leave most companies (when you're pregnant, it usually is time to quit), or you're not allowed to be pregnant until none of your coworker is pregnant. > Case of child care worker chided for getting pregnant before her 'turn' not uncommon https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20180402/p2a/00m/0na/003000c# https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20180402/p2a/00m/0na/00...
  - fjoetna 7y ago
    Reading this makes me sad and a little bit angry. It is ridiculous that a company/employer might suggest your right of getting children. In a different context this would be considered a joke or something you would read about in a dystopian book, but instead it's happening in one of the most developed countries in the would.
    - 0ldblu3 7y ago
      You are conflating economic development and social development. Go check out some youtube channels from westerners living in Japan and you'll see that the economic development has had a cost. I don't really know how to define it because it's their society and I can't put my American values on it, but the salaryman thing has a cost. This birthrate issue is probably it. Will Japan eventually collapse because of it?

rolltiide 7y ago

I had that idea and someone recommended I read Brave New World I loved it sounds almost perfect! Ironic that its grouped with “dystopian futures” but that was news to me.

anongraddebt 7y ago
"The chains of nature... are called reason, freedom, morality and choice. The human chains foretold by Huxley are of a quite different composition: they are made entirely of flesh and the pleasures of the flesh. They bind so tightly that reason, choice and moral judgement can find no chink in which to grow and corrode them. So completely do they encircle the human soul that it shrinks to a tiny dot within the organism. There is no suffering in the Brave New World; no pain or doubt or terror. Nor is there happiness. It is a world of reliable and undemanding pleasures, from which the causes of suffering have been banished, and with them all striving, all hope, and all joy. But love is a cause of suffering; so too are freedom, judgement and choice. Hence these things too will disappear from the Brave New World."
- rolltiide 7y ago
  There has to be someone else here that finds that perfect A completely hedonistic society with no consequence? Is everyone else focusing on different things? The only problem I had was the antiquated racial views of the author. The caste system too wasn’t necessary but it didn't bother me. The concept? Loved it!
  - anongraddebt 7y ago
    I am aware of the highly controversial views on homosexuality of the author (Scruton), but am unaware of anything controversial about race. Regardless, a person can say many deeply true things across a number of domains, yet be quite wrong in various places. From what I have read from him, this seems to be the case. Glad you liked that passage!
    - rolltiide 7y ago
      Yes, regarding the author I was referring to Huxley

elfexec 7y ago

For governments to completely control birth rates via artificial wombs/artificial births, they'd also need to neuter/spay the human population to prevent natural births. This would be simple for children of artificial births as the government could spay/neuter them at birth. But how would a government spay/neuter the naturally born population? Government handouts, tax incentives, compulsion? Get spayed/neutered for 20 years of no income tax? If we were to go the artificial wombs route, then human sexuality/desire/etc would no longer be needed and spaying/neutering should take care of that. But would that lead to more productivity, creativity and progress? Or would it hinder productivity, creativity and progress? The desire to mate/create is a powerful motivator for work and production. But it can also be a source of destruction and decay. Would we be better off like our pets - spayed and neutered and without any hope and urge for mating?

imtringued 7y ago
>But how would a government spay/neuter the naturally born population? Probably by making it very obvious that someone came from an artificial womb. Then you can have racism against "naturals".

programmarchy 7y ago

You’ve obviously never raised a child. The problem isn’t a lack of wombs or the first 9 months of childbearing.

neetrain 7y ago
As Japanese, I can say they are a few of the problems too. You can't take maternity leave most companies (when you're pregnant, it usually is time to quit), or you're not allowed to be pregnant until none of your coworker is pregnant. > Case of child care worker chided for getting pregnant before her 'turn' not uncommon https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20180402/p2a/00m/0na/003000c# https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20180402/p2a/00m/0na/00...
- fjoetna 7y ago
  Reading this makes me sad and a little bit angry. It is ridiculous that a company/employer might suggest your right of getting children. In a different context this would be considered a joke or something you would read about in a dystopian book, but instead it's happening in one of the most developed countries in the would.
  - 0ldblu3 7y ago
    You are conflating economic development and social development. Go check out some youtube channels from westerners living in Japan and you'll see that the economic development has had a cost. I don't really know how to define it because it's their society and I can't put my American values on it, but the salaryman thing has a cost. This birthrate issue is probably it. Will Japan eventually collapse because of it?