14 ms·

>>In a statement on its website, Amazon also said its employees “work hard every day to help ensure all products offered in our store are safe and authentic.”

>>In a statement on its website, Amazon also said its employees “work hard every day to help ensure all products offered in our store are safe and authentic.” Bullshit. The front line employees that receive inbound product don't enforce any policy and actually Amazon encourages to deal with disputes only after a product is sold, shipped and a customer complains. That's the Bezos way. Fact. Let's discuss grocery products in glass containers real quick if anyone wants to argue... I admit, we'd sell counterfeit products if I didn't have morals. We push all the AMZ limits we can. I could write a book on this subject.

dman 7y ago
I am surprised Amazon has not run into Food safety issues / lawsuits by now.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  Hard to ship fake perishable goods via Amazon. Food fraud is way more lucrative on bigger scales.
  - ecommerceguy 7y ago
    You'd be surprised how much 3rd party grocery is sold via FBA... It's a nice income stream done correctly.
  - dman 7y ago
    Doesnt have to be perishable. Things like Biscuits, Cereals, Nuts, Dates, ground items of various kinds etc.
- ecommerceguy 7y ago
  As frequently as I've seen BBQ sauce in glass containers, for instance, 1 starred as shattered on delivery, I am too. To be fair, these items should not have been placed within FBA in the first place, according to "policy". Inbound employees are supposed to filter products for policy violations (specifically in this instance liquid in glass containers over 4ozs). Not the employees fault..?, they are overwhelmed. Just 1 of many examples we run into as a fulfillment service. Merry Christmas everyone!
  - ryanmercer 7y ago
    >As frequently as I've seen BBQ sauce in glass containers, for instance, 1 starred as shattered on delivery, Last week I had a package show up with six 5lb weight plates, a book and toothpaste in the same big box. Even if the toothpaste hadn't been crushed to the point of failing and getting everywhere, the book was completely mangled by 30 pounds of weight plates sliding around in an oversized box for God only knows how long. I ordered some sea salt scrub earlier this year and same kinda thing, they just tossed it in an oversized box with a bunch of other stuff... by the time it got to me the lid had cracked and come off and oil/salt was all over everything. It doesn't surprise me they do similar with food.
ng12 7y ago
I bought a product on Amazon this Christmas that was completely fake. It was "sold by Amazon" but didn't even have the same label as the brand I had ordered. I complained to Amazon and they just gave me a refund without requiring that I return the product (I ended up just throwing it out). I suspect that they knew the inventory was tainted but figured the cost of dealing with noisy customers like me is less than the amount of money they make selling a cheaply made ripoff of a $15 product.
- c2h5oh 7y ago
  If multiple suppliers ship same product to Amazon warehouses Amazon will ship closest one to buyer regardless who supplied it. In fact if the seller requests their goods back they won't get the same ones they sent to Amazon - they are mixed together with others sharing ASIN There must have been an Amazon marketplace seller using same listing but shipping fakes. Or Amazon got duped.
  - ng12 7y ago
    What bothers me most is the fake was incredibly lazy. It came in a plain white box with the brand I ordered stamped on one corner. The product inside looked completely different and was from a "brand" that I can't find sold on any legitimate site. I suspect it didn't even include a functioning battery, I couldn't get it to hold a charge for more than a few seconds. If Amazon got "duped" by this they could have gotten duped just as easily by a guy selling a box of old newspapers. I don't understand how it's not fraud to label it as "Sold by Amazon" when they don't have the slightest idea what they're shipping to me.
    - bitcoinmoney 7y ago
      Please tell us the product name so we are aware.
      - fredophile 7y ago
        The product name won't help. This could happen with almost any item Amazon sells because of how they commingle inventory.
c3534l 7y ago
I tried to file a claim about a fraudulent purchase (filing complaints is intentionally obscure and arduous on Amazon) I made and I got an email back that told me I didn't have a claim because I wasn't a seller. So they do enforce a policy, their policy is to make money on whatever legal grey area they can get away with.
masonic 7y ago
The phrasing is a deviously clever way to try to foist some degree of blame on employees rather than policy.
- leoc 7y ago
  Repeating myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19199343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19199343 > The classic "control fraud" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_fraud strategy is to incentivise your subordinates to maximise revenues while "neglecting" to check that they aren't engaging in fraud to do it. Then you can protest your innocence when the fraud comes to light.
bitcoinmoney 7y ago
Dabbled in FBA before. I stopped when I realized the game can be won by volume shipment and pricing wars. Brand registry is also a way to own your listing. Would buy a 30$ ebook if you write all the ins and outs.
privateSFacct 7y ago
This also makes me laugh out loud. If Amazon gave two craps about some of this stuff it would be cut WAY back. For a few years at least every Apple branded product on amazon I bought was 100% fake - lazy fakes too. I ended up having to buy from Apple directly to get something legit. You are telling me brands haven't complained about this? I find that totally hard to believe. The crap amazon sells is going to bring them down. I've got used stuff sold as new (complete with debries from previous owner). If they cared they would. Have sellers post $1,000 bond to sell, scaled up based on sales volume. Enforce clear fraud issues with account bans and forfeit the deposit (ie, the whole changed 5 star listing selling a totally different product). Segregate inventory by seller, and enforce consequences on seller for product quality issues. Have a QC team sample 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 items and 1 item per seller each year. If it claims USB 3- test to spec, claims waterproof test to spec, claims safe for kids - test for lead. Whoever does this will win in long run. Who wants lead in the product they give to their kids. This reputation issue could bleed into AWS. Why trust a company that CANNOT get control over its marketplace. The fakes are horrible.
- Phylter 7y ago
  The only way Amazon is going to fix it is if it costs more to leave it as a problem than it will cost to fix it.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - BaronSamedi 7y ago
    Let's hope that Amazon recognizes the seriousness of this problem before it manifests itself financially. By then it could be too late. If we think about this as a "reputational security" problem then Amazon is already vulnerable. If the idea that buying from Amazon means you will get a fake gains traction--either organically or through an information campaign by a competitor--then it seems likely that their sales will decline. And, once their reputation is damaged in this way it will be difficult to repair. I'm suggesting that reputation has a delayed effect on sales, it may not have a significant financial impact until the reputational attack hits a certain threshold; at which point that impact could be very significant. It's easy to imagine the hyberbolic, clickbait articles that might arise: "The Amazon Fake Crisis: What you need to know" or "Amazon fakes: Read this before you buy another thing on Amazon" (or better clickbait headlines than I can write but you get the idea).
hinkley 7y ago
This is the thing about corporate statements. Amazon has a hundred thousand employees? If they have 5 people working on this then it's absolutely true that "[their] employees work hard every day to help ensure all products offered in [their] store are safe and authentic". Employees working on something has weight when you have a handful of employees total. You can measure the effort expended as a whole number percentage of the overall budget. When you've invested almost nothing as a percentage of your entire labor budget, it's just lying with facts.
systematical 7y ago
I'm glad we are all in agreement about the smell coming from that statement.

dman 7y ago

I am surprised Amazon has not run into Food safety issues / lawsuits by now.

mschuster91 7y ago
Hard to ship fake perishable goods via Amazon. Food fraud is way more lucrative on bigger scales.
- ecommerceguy 7y ago
  You'd be surprised how much 3rd party grocery is sold via FBA... It's a nice income stream done correctly.
- dman 7y ago
  Doesnt have to be perishable. Things like Biscuits, Cereals, Nuts, Dates, ground items of various kinds etc.
ecommerceguy 7y ago
As frequently as I've seen BBQ sauce in glass containers, for instance, 1 starred as shattered on delivery, I am too. To be fair, these items should not have been placed within FBA in the first place, according to "policy". Inbound employees are supposed to filter products for policy violations (specifically in this instance liquid in glass containers over 4ozs). Not the employees fault..?, they are overwhelmed. Just 1 of many examples we run into as a fulfillment service. Merry Christmas everyone!
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  >As frequently as I've seen BBQ sauce in glass containers, for instance, 1 starred as shattered on delivery, Last week I had a package show up with six 5lb weight plates, a book and toothpaste in the same big box. Even if the toothpaste hadn't been crushed to the point of failing and getting everywhere, the book was completely mangled by 30 pounds of weight plates sliding around in an oversized box for God only knows how long. I ordered some sea salt scrub earlier this year and same kinda thing, they just tossed it in an oversized box with a bunch of other stuff... by the time it got to me the lid had cracked and come off and oil/salt was all over everything. It doesn't surprise me they do similar with food.

ng12 7y ago

I bought a product on Amazon this Christmas that was completely fake. It was "sold by Amazon" but didn't even have the same label as the brand I had ordered. I complained to Amazon and they just gave me a refund without requiring that I return the product (I ended up just throwing it out). I suspect that they knew the inventory was tainted but figured the cost of dealing with noisy customers like me is less than the amount of money they make selling a cheaply made ripoff of a $15 product.

c2h5oh 7y ago
If multiple suppliers ship same product to Amazon warehouses Amazon will ship closest one to buyer regardless who supplied it. In fact if the seller requests their goods back they won't get the same ones they sent to Amazon - they are mixed together with others sharing ASIN There must have been an Amazon marketplace seller using same listing but shipping fakes. Or Amazon got duped.
- ng12 7y ago
  What bothers me most is the fake was incredibly lazy. It came in a plain white box with the brand I ordered stamped on one corner. The product inside looked completely different and was from a "brand" that I can't find sold on any legitimate site. I suspect it didn't even include a functioning battery, I couldn't get it to hold a charge for more than a few seconds. If Amazon got "duped" by this they could have gotten duped just as easily by a guy selling a box of old newspapers. I don't understand how it's not fraud to label it as "Sold by Amazon" when they don't have the slightest idea what they're shipping to me.
  - bitcoinmoney 7y ago
    Please tell us the product name so we are aware.
    - fredophile 7y ago
      The product name won't help. This could happen with almost any item Amazon sells because of how they commingle inventory.

c3534l 7y ago

I tried to file a claim about a fraudulent purchase (filing complaints is intentionally obscure and arduous on Amazon) I made and I got an email back that told me I didn't have a claim because I wasn't a seller. So they do enforce a policy, their policy is to make money on whatever legal grey area they can get away with.

masonic 7y ago

The phrasing is a deviously clever way to try to foist some degree of blame on employees rather than policy.

leoc 7y ago
Repeating myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19199343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19199343 > The classic "control fraud" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_fraud strategy is to incentivise your subordinates to maximise revenues while "neglecting" to check that they aren't engaging in fraud to do it. Then you can protest your innocence when the fraud comes to light.

bitcoinmoney 7y ago

Dabbled in FBA before. I stopped when I realized the game can be won by volume shipment and pricing wars. Brand registry is also a way to own your listing. Would buy a 30$ ebook if you write all the ins and outs.

privateSFacct 7y ago

This also makes me laugh out loud. If Amazon gave two craps about some of this stuff it would be cut WAY back. For a few years at least every Apple branded product on amazon I bought was 100% fake - lazy fakes too. I ended up having to buy from Apple directly to get something legit. You are telling me brands haven't complained about this? I find that totally hard to believe. The crap amazon sells is going to bring them down. I've got used stuff sold as new (complete with debries from previous owner). If they cared they would. Have sellers post $1,000 bond to sell, scaled up based on sales volume. Enforce clear fraud issues with account bans and forfeit the deposit (ie, the whole changed 5 star listing selling a totally different product). Segregate inventory by seller, and enforce consequences on seller for product quality issues. Have a QC team sample 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 items and 1 item per seller each year. If it claims USB 3- test to spec, claims waterproof test to spec, claims safe for kids - test for lead. Whoever does this will win in long run. Who wants lead in the product they give to their kids. This reputation issue could bleed into AWS. Why trust a company that CANNOT get control over its marketplace. The fakes are horrible.

Phylter 7y ago
The only way Amazon is going to fix it is if it costs more to leave it as a problem than it will cost to fix it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- BaronSamedi 7y ago
  Let's hope that Amazon recognizes the seriousness of this problem before it manifests itself financially. By then it could be too late. If we think about this as a "reputational security" problem then Amazon is already vulnerable. If the idea that buying from Amazon means you will get a fake gains traction--either organically or through an information campaign by a competitor--then it seems likely that their sales will decline. And, once their reputation is damaged in this way it will be difficult to repair. I'm suggesting that reputation has a delayed effect on sales, it may not have a significant financial impact until the reputational attack hits a certain threshold; at which point that impact could be very significant. It's easy to imagine the hyberbolic, clickbait articles that might arise: "The Amazon Fake Crisis: What you need to know" or "Amazon fakes: Read this before you buy another thing on Amazon" (or better clickbait headlines than I can write but you get the idea).

hinkley 7y ago

This is the thing about corporate statements. Amazon has a hundred thousand employees? If they have 5 people working on this then it's absolutely true that "[their] employees work hard every day to help ensure all products offered in [their] store are safe and authentic". Employees working on something has weight when you have a handful of employees total. You can measure the effort expended as a whole number percentage of the overall budget. When you've invested almost nothing as a percentage of your entire labor budget, it's just lying with facts.

systematical 7y ago

I'm glad we are all in agreement about the smell coming from that statement.