4 ms·

I attended a private high school that gave us a remarkable degree of freedom at a young age. We were allowed to drive off campus as upper classmen, choose a wid

by ellius 7y ago

I attended a private high school that gave us a remarkable degree of freedom at a young age. We were allowed to drive off campus as upper classmen, choose a wide range of electives, and generally were treated as the near-adults we were. Recently I read that my high school is instituting a random drug testing policy. I wrote a letter (that I'm sure they promptly ignored) saying how the thing I most remember about my high school experience is that I was trusted with a high degree of autonomy, and in return I was expected to act responsibly and to think about issues with a seriousness not often expected of teenagers in our society. It seems like more and more these infantilizing policies are becoming a norm in our society. Instead of trusting human beings and granting them personal autonomy and responsibility, we act like imposing ever-greater layers of rules and controls will produce good citizens. Frankly I think this is a disastrous approach and is creating entitled, helpless, and childish adults. It's a massive disservice to ourselves and our society. I'll never forget my first day of college. Lots of the other kids in my dorm were running around like crazy people. You could tell they'd never really been free to be themselves and run their own affairs. I felt very different. While it was a significant change to be totally on my own, it felt like a natural extension of the freedom I had slowly been granted over the previous two or three years. I was ready to deal with it. I didn't do everything perfectly, and I could have made better decisions, but by and large I felt like the transition to adulthood was comfortable and natural. The more we impose these command-and-control models, the more I fear we are robbing our children of that same feeling and casting them into adulthood with poorer tools than we were given.

mercer 7y ago
I somehow managed to be person who least attended my last three years of high school. Which is pretty unusual for someone on the highest, 3rd-tier track which over here is what you need to do to attend college. For comparison, the 1st-tier is stereotyped as pot-smoking dropouts who can only go to vocation schools after finishing high school. I didn't realize that my attendance was tracked, because there was a pretty laissez-faire attitude all-around. Most teachers liked me because when I did show up, I was actively present, and the only moment that might've caused me to suspect something was a conversation with a teacher who, in a very friendly way, told me he couldn't give me copies of the notes from the past year because my attendance had been abysmal. Still, I didn't really think about any of this until the principal called me in and told me he should really expel me. And yet, he was sympathetic to my situation (severe anxiety) and let me off the hook because my grades were okay. And so in the final months before college I stayed, made sure to attend classes, and finished with acceptable grades. The very next year (in part perhaps because of me?) the school modernized their systems and I had to listen to the tales of woe from my younger siblings at the same school. None of them could get even close to my behavior because everything was tracked, quantified, part of the new computer system. My sister got diagnosed with severe ADHD and one of my brothers went for the third-tier track even though he's just as smart as I am. I'm convinced that the increased measurement and decreased freedom affected them negatively, and I find it very worrying that the siblings that went on to college seem to have similar issues (because, of course, at university I was one of the least-attending students who somehow still got along with the professors and had decent grades). To be clear, I'm not excusing myself. In hindsight I wish had attended more and put in more effort and played the game better. I'm just saying that I at least had the freedom, in high school and university, to do things my own way and still do okay. this strikes me as very difficult for my younger siblings, because so much more is measured and quantified and required.
mchandler06 7y ago
St. X in Cincinnati?
sircastor 7y ago
I feel like in the case of schools, there legal risks they have to face that cause this. If something happens to a student while that student is in your care, you get the blame. If the school restricts freedoms they're simply reducing their legal risk. It's a shame. I agree with you that giving students more and more freedom as they grow is tremendously helpful to their ability to adapt and be responsible by the time they reach adulthood.
- godelski 7y ago
  Is the legal risk different now from back then? If so then maybe those legal decisions weren't great. Maybe they were. But at least worth revaluation.
  - sircastor 7y ago
    I think it is. I think people used to be less litigious, so schools had less to worry about. The law was certainly less complex, providing less potential risk than it does. Additionally, I'd be willing to bet school districts have dedicated legal departments, or lawyers on retainer these days and I'd bet that's a recent change.
    - porknubbins 7y ago
      I think this is mostly a media driven perception that lawsuits have been increasing when in fact the trend is that tort awards and causes of action have been restricted. If you’re a school administrator wanting more control its easy to say “lawsuits” but I bet these people are not doing research on lawsuits for students leaving campus in their jurisdiction.
WalterBright 7y ago
I tend to agree with you. I witnessed that simply expecting people to behave had the result of people living up to those expectations. As for me personally, being dropped into Caltech was like going from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds. I didn't even know how to do my own laundry :-) Getting from LAX to the campus by myself across LA was a very intimidating experience. These days parents bring their kids to college and even set up their quarters for them.
xvector 7y ago
I’m almost 2 years into my first job after college and sometimes the amount of freedom I have continues to delight and baffle me. Like if I want to go to the movies on a weeknight - I can do that. If I want to travel out of state on the weekend, it’s no problem. Like, there’s nothing stopping me.
- ianlevesque 7y ago
  Always treat life that way!
- joe_the_user 7y ago
  Wow, so are you saying that being in-college was not like that for you? If so, that's disturbing given that college was once the time for young people to enjoy their freedom to the fullest. I remember driving from upstate New York to Boston one weekend on a whim with some friends - in the middle of winter, a memorable adventure.
  - mod50ack 7y ago
    I think the comment is saying that that freedom began in college, but that freedom is still exciting and new.

by ellius 7y ago

mercer 7y ago

I somehow managed to be person who least attended my last three years of high school. Which is pretty unusual for someone on the highest, 3rd-tier track which over here is what you need to do to attend college. For comparison, the 1st-tier is stereotyped as pot-smoking dropouts who can only go to vocation schools after finishing high school. I didn't realize that my attendance was tracked, because there was a pretty laissez-faire attitude all-around. Most teachers liked me because when I did show up, I was actively present, and the only moment that might've caused me to suspect something was a conversation with a teacher who, in a very friendly way, told me he couldn't give me copies of the notes from the past year because my attendance had been abysmal. Still, I didn't really think about any of this until the principal called me in and told me he should really expel me. And yet, he was sympathetic to my situation (severe anxiety) and let me off the hook because my grades were okay. And so in the final months before college I stayed, made sure to attend classes, and finished with acceptable grades. The very next year (in part perhaps because of me?) the school modernized their systems and I had to listen to the tales of woe from my younger siblings at the same school. None of them could get even close to my behavior because everything was tracked, quantified, part of the new computer system. My sister got diagnosed with severe ADHD and one of my brothers went for the third-tier track even though he's just as smart as I am. I'm convinced that the increased measurement and decreased freedom affected them negatively, and I find it very worrying that the siblings that went on to college seem to have similar issues (because, of course, at university I was one of the least-attending students who somehow still got along with the professors and had decent grades). To be clear, I'm not excusing myself. In hindsight I wish had attended more and put in more effort and played the game better. I'm just saying that I at least had the freedom, in high school and university, to do things my own way and still do okay. this strikes me as very difficult for my younger siblings, because so much more is measured and quantified and required.

mchandler06 7y ago

St. X in Cincinnati?

sircastor 7y ago

I feel like in the case of schools, there legal risks they have to face that cause this. If something happens to a student while that student is in your care, you get the blame. If the school restricts freedoms they're simply reducing their legal risk. It's a shame. I agree with you that giving students more and more freedom as they grow is tremendously helpful to their ability to adapt and be responsible by the time they reach adulthood.

godelski 7y ago
Is the legal risk different now from back then? If so then maybe those legal decisions weren't great. Maybe they were. But at least worth revaluation.
- sircastor 7y ago
  I think it is. I think people used to be less litigious, so schools had less to worry about. The law was certainly less complex, providing less potential risk than it does. Additionally, I'd be willing to bet school districts have dedicated legal departments, or lawyers on retainer these days and I'd bet that's a recent change.
  - porknubbins 7y ago
    I think this is mostly a media driven perception that lawsuits have been increasing when in fact the trend is that tort awards and causes of action have been restricted. If you’re a school administrator wanting more control its easy to say “lawsuits” but I bet these people are not doing research on lawsuits for students leaving campus in their jurisdiction.

WalterBright 7y ago

I tend to agree with you. I witnessed that simply expecting people to behave had the result of people living up to those expectations. As for me personally, being dropped into Caltech was like going from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds. I didn't even know how to do my own laundry :-) Getting from LAX to the campus by myself across LA was a very intimidating experience. These days parents bring their kids to college and even set up their quarters for them.

xvector 7y ago

I’m almost 2 years into my first job after college and sometimes the amount of freedom I have continues to delight and baffle me. Like if I want to go to the movies on a weeknight - I can do that. If I want to travel out of state on the weekend, it’s no problem. Like, there’s nothing stopping me.

ianlevesque 7y ago
Always treat life that way!
joe_the_user 7y ago
Wow, so are you saying that being in-college was not like that for you? If so, that's disturbing given that college was once the time for young people to enjoy their freedom to the fullest. I remember driving from upstate New York to Boston one weekend on a whim with some friends - in the middle of winter, a memorable adventure.
- mod50ack 7y ago
  I think the comment is saying that that freedom began in college, but that freedom is still exciting and new.