14 ms·
Ruby 2.7
- claudiug 7y agogreat! i truly like this language.
- zahreeley 7y agoDead language
- faitswulff 7y agoI know it's slow at the moment, but is anyone planning on using pattern matching for anything in particular? Curious what use cases are particularly suitable for it.
- ljm 7y agoI’d love to, if it helps with things like Either/Maybe types. Although from what I’ve looked at briefly the syntax felt a little less intuitive than I’ve seen in other languages. Will have to properly try it out.
- jolux 7y agowhat's the purpose of Either and Maybe in a dynamically typed language?
- chrisseaton 7y agoOne use could be that you could capture source information in them, so when you get an unexpected None you can find where it came from.
- sorokod 7y agoWhat forces you to check for None?
- chrisseaton 7y agoThe idea of Maybe is that you usually don't check for None. The idea is that you use it sort of like a collection in most cases, allowing the None to propagate up as the result of collection operations on other Nones. The issue can be that you get a None at the end and it isn't clear where it came from originally, and how it reached you. Adding stack trace information to each intermediate None, when in debug mode, can help you trace what went wrong.
- jolux 7y ago>The idea is that you use it sort of like a collection in most cases Sort of like a monad, even! Honestly if you're running into problems like that though you should probably be using Either instead of Maybe like GP suggested. In my opinion, most of the benefit is still derived from strong static type checking, because otherwise you basically have to trust that callers respect your contract with these types. Perhaps Ruby 3.0 will make this feasible. I'm not sure of the details of the type system they intend to implement; whether it supports ADTs and such.
- chrisseaton 7y ago> Sort of like a monad, even! Yes that's it - they're monads! Either is also a monad, and you can store error information in the other side if you want, but a good thing about Maybe is it could transparently store the error information, and produce it when debugging, rather than baking it into the normal runtime semantics. > you basically have to trust that callers respect your contract with these types This is table-stakes for a dynamic language like Ruby, though. Yes people can do anything, but usually they follow the rules they're given.
- jolux 7y agoYes I’m aware they’re monads, my primary languages are OCaml and Haskell. I don’t understand what you’re suggesting with Maybe, that sounds like maybe adding some layer of magic onto it? > Yes people can do anything, but usually they follow the rules they're given. Sure, but the primary advantage remains in not having to trust that, not having to write tests for it, and communicating the contract itself inside the code it restricts. I’m just honestly not sure what purpose they serve here, and why you’d bother to call them monads when what you really seem to want is the stored debugging information.
- ljm 7y agoMaybe I’ve just been bitten by the functional bug but I find they can communicate intent much better than scattering around null checks or catching exceptions (many of which require reading the source to understand what exceptions you might get). It’s great in large scale projects, which I think is where a dynamic language starts to show its warts.
- obstacle1 7y agoAn alternative to scattering null checks around or using exceptions for control flow could be more thoughtfully designing your data/object model. No additional language constructs required!
- coldtea 7y agoThat attitude is the source of billions of dollars in bugs... Never manually do the work that the compiler / runtime could do. You can design "more thoughtfully designing your data/object model" (in other regards) AND have the compiler make sure you're not doing null referencing for you (so that that's not your concern anymore) -- instead of manually and in an ad-hoc way per project implementing another menial responsibility into the design of your model.
- ljm 7y agoWhat if using those functional concepts is my attempt at thoughtful design? You're making a hell of an assumption with that one.
- int_19h 7y agoGiven that we're talking about it in a pattern matching context, you'd just pattern match on x vs nil, rather than matching on Just x or None. And in case of Either, you'd match on the types that you expect.
- jolux 7y agoYeah I suppose my bigger beef is I just don't like dynamic languages. Perhaps it is in fact a good idea for them, but being someone primarily interested in types, it largely falls into the realm of "don't care."
- edflsafoiewq 7y agoPop an item from an array. What do you return when the array is empty? Solution: nil. Problem: How do you tell the difference between "the array was empty" and "the item you popped was nil"? Solution: have pop return a Maybe instead.
- alaaalawi 7y agoor allow returning multiple values. for example in CL searching for a thing returns two values the is-found and the value
- uryga 7y ago...which, btw, is equivalent to Maybe/Either – they're tagged unions, i.e. pairs (tag, content). Maybe<T> is isomorphic* to { has_value: bool, val: T|nil } * well, this representation is a bit too permissive, since you could do {has_value: true, val: nil} if you wanted to get the types water-tight, you'd need dependent types, typing it as dependent pair: Maybe<T> = sigma (has_value: bool) if has_value then T else () which can then only have values (false, ()) or (true, <actual value of type T>)
- coldtea 7y agoWhich is the same thing, but in an ad-hoc way, and leaves it open to the developer to check or not, and thus to crash.
- inopinatus 7y agoor solution: Null Object or a whole value or use an enumerator or a collection decorator All of which are simple solutions already available. No need to import every new paradigm hammer in the hope that everything is a nail.
- StuffedParrot 7y agoHow are they related at all?
- sergiotapia 7y agoPattern matching is awesome in Elixir, it's great to see functional language traits stain the Ruby language more. It's all the better for it.
- papito 7y agoI was introduced to it in Scala. I like how all "classic" languages are cherry-picking features from functional programming. It will make people less shell-shocked in the future, when they try it for real.
- nobleach 7y agoYup, Scala, F#/OCaml and Rust have the best pattern matching implementations I've seen. I'm happy to see other languages slowly coming around. Java has a JEP for it (although nowhere near as nice as Scala's). Even JavaScript has a TC-39 proposal, although its champion has gone on to focus more on Rust. I'm excited for the future.
- omneity 7y agoMy first exposure to it was in Haskell. It felt very surreal and almost magical at the time.
- pmontra 7y agoBasically this is Elixir's case, so a very narrow instance of what Elixir's pattern matching is. I'd love to see more pattern matching added to Ruby year after year. However adding everything Elixir has probably would require a total rework of the language. Example: multiple method definitions, one per pattern. I wonder what's going to be the idiomatic way to handle a failed match. Elixir ends the process but there is likely a supervisor to restart it. In the case of Ruby the process ends and there is nothing to restart it. In the case of Rails I expect the web request to fail with a 500 and maybe the next one will get more luck.
- riffraff 7y agoThere seem to be plans to extend this to destructuring assignment/bind, that would be a ton more useful and interesting imo.
- tyingq 7y agoDoes the pattern matching do something that Ruby's map() can't do? Coming from Perl, map() there can return fewer elements than the source list, so pattern matching works already. A short skim of Ruby's map seems to imply it always returns something with the same number of elements. Edit: I was confused about what this feature did. So this subthread is still interesting, but mostly unrelated.
- rubyfan 7y agoYeah afaik something is always returned from the block (even if it’s nil). Occasionally I recall my self doing something where the block might return nil and then I’d call `compact` to get rid of extra nil stuff. It works when you want a modified version of the enumerable but don’t want nil stuff. If you just want to match a subset then I think `select` is probably what you want. Further, the pattern matching feature is significantly different than `map` imo.
- s_kilk 7y agoMap is data manipulation, whereas pattern-matching is control flow.
- tyingq 7y agoYes, thank you. Reading the sub linked presentation, I see it now. The sentence "It can traverse a given object and assign its value if it matches a pattern" sounded like traverse and (optionally) manipulate.
- zahreeley 7y agoBogus and dead language
- burlesona 7y ago> Calling a private method with a literal self as the receiver is now allowed. Oof. Call me old fashioned, but I liked the consistency of not being able to call private methods with an explicit receiver. Oh well! The rest of this looks great, thanks Ruby team!
- atmosx 7y agoFunny thing: I always bring up how Ruby has private methods while Python doesn't, when toying around with colleagues about languages, etc. well there goes that I guess. Sidenote: I can't think of a use case where this is a good idea.
- cheald 7y agoYou've been able to use `send` to pierce the protected/private restriction forever, so this doesn't particularly change the nature of Ruby's method visibility rules. Now you can just use `self.foo` and it's the same as `self.send :foo`. class Foo def test priv # works self.send(:priv) # works self.priv # doesn't work under ruby 2.6- Foo.new.priv # doesn't work end private def priv puts "ran private" end end You shouldn't typically need to be using `self` at all, except when it's clarifying or disambiguating, so you shouldn't generally run into that issue. On occasion, though, you add a `self.` prefix to a method call and can break code that was otherwise working, because you've subjected your code to a scope protection that it wasn't subject to before.
- atmosx 7y ago> You've been able to use `send` to pierce the protected/private restriction forever, so this doesn't particularly change the nature of Ruby's method visibility rules. I wasn't aware, thanks for pointing that out.
- Lio 7y agoPreviously this was a good reason for preferring public_send over send where possible.
- ufo 7y agoOne of the interesting news is that they are now going to start requiring a C99 compiler, instead of only C90. I've been considering to do the same on my own projects. What does HN have to say about this? Is anyone here still working in a context where C99 is not an option? Did anyone else also recently switch to C99? How did it go?
- brudgers 7y agoWhy? Not being facetious. Wondering about the weights of benefits versus costs for users.
- codr7 7y agoMostly portable implementations of extensions for me; __thread, bool, inttypes.h, variadic macros, flexible array members etc. But declaring variables closer to the point of use is nice, as is struct initializers, compound literals and single line comments. Compared to the rest, C99 contains a lot of useful improvements.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kick 7y agoThe only real cost is that Windows users will have a slightly less convenient time, which doesn't matter for most projects.
- CJefferson 7y agoThe only modern problem with switching to C99 is Visual Studio on Windows. You have 2 sensible choices: 1) Use clang to build on Windows. 2) Use the subset of C99 which is implemented in Visual Studio (which also requires compiling as C++, which isn't that difficult to handle).
- gdxhyrd 7y ago3) Use C++17 with minimal features. This gives you a lot of needed libraries built-in and it is better supported than C99 (due to Windows).
- z92 7y agoThe compaction GC was the most important change. I haven't measured Ruby's performance specifically but in general the difference and improvements over a non-compacting GC is so huge. Specially for long running processes.
- ksec 7y ago>over a non-compacting GC is so huge Yes in other languages, but as far as I am aware that is not the case in Ruby ( Specific to Rails ) . At least I wouldn't use so huge to describe the improvement.
- chucke 7y agoIts an important change, but not huge, at least not yet: it's not yet integrated in the GC, which means you have to explicitly request it. And most of the fragmentation comes anyway from the allocations heap. That being said, I think this will improve in the coming releases.
- ultrarunner 7y agoWhat criteria should be monitored to request compaction in a long-running process? Is a timer sufficient (at what interval?) or are there other tools available in Ruby to make that decision?
- brandur 7y agoIt's likely to be most useful for anyone using a Unicorn-style process forking model in Ruby. You call `GC.compact` in the parent right before forking off your child processes and because the memory in the children are copy-on-write (COW), it lets them share memory with their parent far longer than they normally would be able to. Any change in a page (i.e. an object allocated or deallocated) causes it to be copied to a child process, and because previously pages were a mix of objects of all kinds of longevity and slots which may be empty or used, children tended to copy their parent's entire memory space very quickly. Running a GC and compact before forks improves the likelihood that shared pages are mostly full of still-in-use, longer-lived objects, and gives the COW strategy a fighting chance.
- seanmccann 7y agoI had wondered why most recent Ruby releases were on Christmas Day and recently found out why. The Ruby creator Matz is religious (LDS), and he considers it a Christmas gift to the community. I thought that was really cool.
- atraktor 7y agoLove Matz & Ruby, Merry Christmas!
- mattmarcus 7y agoI'm most excited for Enumerable#tally for counting occurrences of elements. From the example in the release: ["a", "b", "c", "b"].tally #=> {"a"=>1, "b"=>2, "c"=>1} There's more about this change here (https://medium.com/@baweaver/ruby-2-7-enumerable-tally-a706a5fb11ea https://medium.com/@baweaver/ruby-2-7-enumerable-tally-a706a...). I probably do this a few times a week: list.each_with_object(Hash.new(0)) { |v, h| h[v.something] += 1 }
- meowface 7y agoFor Python developers: this exists as collections.Counter.
- Twirrim 7y agoI stumbled across collections.Counter during last year's Advent of Code, and promptly kicked myself for the number of times I'd implmeented that by hand.
- faitswulff 7y agoI was a fan of list.group_by(&:itself).transform_values(&:count) ...but I'll be very happy to replace that with #tally!