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This reminds me of the interesting metaphysical argument that happened when Kanye released The Life of Pablo to streaming services and then tweeted “Imma fix Wo

This reminds me of the interesting metaphysical argument that happened when Kanye released The Life of Pablo to streaming services and then tweeted “Imma fix Wolves”. To my knowledge, you have to really Google around to find the original version of the song Wolves today (it would probably be harder if Kanye had “fixed” it without announcing it first). Basically, what is “Cats (2019)”? Is it the thing people saw last weekend? The thing people will see next weekend? The further edited thing that shows up on streaming services in a few months? Or does “Cats” just refer to the idea of a motion-captured live adaptation of the book musical “Cats” that stars a certain group of people but takes many forms depending on when it was viewed?

sp332 7y ago
People don't have this kind of philosophical meltdown when shows are changed from one performance to the next on Broadway.
- akersten 7y ago
  That's the expectation with live musicals and part of the reason why people go see them in the first place - it's a unique, evolving experience. Movies shouldn't be that way - they should have ISBN numbers or something - if you want to re-make it, you shouldn't just be able to erase the original. We're going to wind up in some terrible place where if you pre-order your movie ticket you can see the Target special edition of Avengers Endgame 8 that is only available in theaters for two weeks before it switches to some other version. Maybe we'll get to the point where movie theaters will just perpetually have the same film on roll and update it every couple of months with the latest patches like an MMO. Remember, your Avengers and Superman subscriptions are different. This sure makes me feel crotchety.
- shantly 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure highly-accurate audiovisual media are all tied up in fear of death at this point, in a way that a given live performance of something cannot be, so it bothers us when they're not eternal and unchanging, while live shows do not.
elliekelly 7y ago
The modern day ship of Theseus.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  Replacing <5% of the parts does not get you a ship of Theseus.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    just iterate
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      That costs as much as making a new movie, so I expect roughly nobody to do that. We can worry about it when it happens outside of an art film.
paxys 7y ago
Editing already-released media isn't that novel a concept. Books have been getting updated in reprints since forever. Video games are constantly patched. Movies have always put out "re-cut" or other editions in later releases and on home video. The big change now is really the frequency of it, as everything continues to go digital. The way things are going, soon it'll be common to say "I'm going to watch the movie a few weeks after release once they have worked out all the bugs".
- nixpulvis 7y ago
  Kill me now; before all my bugs are worked out...
- Uehreka 7y ago
  Fair enough, but in the past all of these things (Video Games excepted, they’re part of a newer wave of media) usually came in “editions”. Careful fans know the difference between the original theater cut of Star Wars: A New Hope, as opposed to the original VHS release as opposed to the late 90’s VHS and later DVD releases. When Kanye “fixed Wolves”, it’s not like the new version showed up as part of “The Life Of Pablo (Remastered Edition)”. He just overwrote the file on the streaming services’ CDNs, and since this is in an age where few people keep copies of their music, the old version sort of disappeared.
  - shantly 7y ago
    > Careful fans know the difference between the original theater cut of Star Wars: A New Hope Careful fans know the original theatrical cut was just called Star Wars :-)
  - paxys 7y ago
    The real problem, then, is not the update itself but rather the distribution mechanism (who really "owns" the content?). If I buy a song digitally on Amazon and save it to my local disk, Kanye isn't going to be able to touch it later. If I download it again tomorrow it may be completely different, but I still have the old version with me (same as a cassette or DVD). If I use Amazon's (or Spotify's or Apple's) streaming service, however, the songs are on their servers, and I am only paying for temporary access. I get to listen only to whatever version they want to send me at any point in time.

sp332 7y ago

People don't have this kind of philosophical meltdown when shows are changed from one performance to the next on Broadway.

akersten 7y ago
That's the expectation with live musicals and part of the reason why people go see them in the first place - it's a unique, evolving experience. Movies shouldn't be that way - they should have ISBN numbers or something - if you want to re-make it, you shouldn't just be able to erase the original. We're going to wind up in some terrible place where if you pre-order your movie ticket you can see the Target special edition of Avengers Endgame 8 that is only available in theaters for two weeks before it switches to some other version. Maybe we'll get to the point where movie theaters will just perpetually have the same film on roll and update it every couple of months with the latest patches like an MMO. Remember, your Avengers and Superman subscriptions are different. This sure makes me feel crotchety.
shantly 7y ago
I'm pretty sure highly-accurate audiovisual media are all tied up in fear of death at this point, in a way that a given live performance of something cannot be, so it bothers us when they're not eternal and unchanging, while live shows do not.

elliekelly 7y ago

The modern day ship of Theseus.

Dylan16807 7y ago
Replacing <5% of the parts does not get you a ship of Theseus.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  just iterate
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    That costs as much as making a new movie, so I expect roughly nobody to do that. We can worry about it when it happens outside of an art film.

paxys 7y ago

Editing already-released media isn't that novel a concept. Books have been getting updated in reprints since forever. Video games are constantly patched. Movies have always put out "re-cut" or other editions in later releases and on home video. The big change now is really the frequency of it, as everything continues to go digital. The way things are going, soon it'll be common to say "I'm going to watch the movie a few weeks after release once they have worked out all the bugs".

nixpulvis 7y ago
Kill me now; before all my bugs are worked out...
Uehreka 7y ago
Fair enough, but in the past all of these things (Video Games excepted, they’re part of a newer wave of media) usually came in “editions”. Careful fans know the difference between the original theater cut of Star Wars: A New Hope, as opposed to the original VHS release as opposed to the late 90’s VHS and later DVD releases. When Kanye “fixed Wolves”, it’s not like the new version showed up as part of “The Life Of Pablo (Remastered Edition)”. He just overwrote the file on the streaming services’ CDNs, and since this is in an age where few people keep copies of their music, the old version sort of disappeared.
- shantly 7y ago
  > Careful fans know the difference between the original theater cut of Star Wars: A New Hope Careful fans know the original theatrical cut was just called Star Wars :-)
- paxys 7y ago
  The real problem, then, is not the update itself but rather the distribution mechanism (who really "owns" the content?). If I buy a song digitally on Amazon and save it to my local disk, Kanye isn't going to be able to touch it later. If I download it again tomorrow it may be completely different, but I still have the old version with me (same as a cassette or DVD). If I use Amazon's (or Spotify's or Apple's) streaming service, however, the songs are on their servers, and I am only paying for temporary access. I get to listen only to whatever version they want to send me at any point in time.