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> * opt only for business ideas that can generate good revenue upfront The fact that this isn't a fundamental requirement perplexes me. But I consider the gen

> * opt only for business ideas that can generate good revenue upfront The fact that this isn't a fundamental requirement perplexes me. But I consider the generic silicon valley startup model a sickness. You sell your and the company's soul to VC's before you even make a dime at the expense of the people who sweat and bled for you and who you also promised stake, only to routinely get screwed by the VC's who get paid out first. > * jump into bootstrapping full time while relying on personal savings It can be done, but I don't recommend it. > * bootstrap on the side while working a day job This is what I did. About the time you're pulling your hair out because you don't have enough time in the day to follow through with taking people's money is a great time to finally quit that day job.

koolba 7y ago
Keeping your day job and being willing to slog through your nights and weekends is a level zero test of whether you believe in your own success. “I don’t have time” is the sorriest excuse for an excuse. If you really want to make it you’ll make time. If you don’t, consider it an indication that you don’t have what it takes.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  I 100% agree with that. If you can't balance your career/interests/family/side-projects/sanity to keep everyone happy while working a day job, then good luck doing a lot more of the same after you fully launch.
- HatchedLake721 7y ago
  Amen
- scarface74 7y ago
  ”I don’t have time” is the sorriest excuse for an excuse. Yeah some people have to do silly things like spend time with their kids and make sure they are attentive to their spouses.
- steve_taylor 7y ago
  Do you have kids? Do you have a wife pressuring you to save for a deposit on a house and get a mortgage in an overpriced market in order to provide a stable environment for the kids? I doubt it. This is typical generic startup know-it-all bullshit.
  - vjktyu 7y ago
    The cynical me hints that "for the kids" is just a nice way to say "I need an option for 50% that I get to execute, should I leave our startup." With this logic, the price of the house doesn't matter.
  - enraged_camel 7y ago
    >>Do you have a wife pressuring you to save for a deposit on a house and get a mortgage in an overpriced market in order to provide a stable environment for the kids? Wait... are you seriously suggesting that struggling to save the deposit for and then buying an overpriced house will provide a stable environment for your kids?
    - someguydave 7y ago
      If the environment was poor, people probably would not bid much for the house.
    - imtringued 7y ago
      You're attacking a strawman. Nobody was saying anything about struggling. Accumulating a down payment is by definition a lengthy process because you have to pay rent while you are saving up money. If you could get a mortgage with 0% down you could immediately convert the money you would have spent on rent into equity.
  - Enginerrrd 7y ago
    I have kids, launched my company the same year my son was born, and 100% agree with his statement. There's room for some level of success outside of failing that "level 0 test", but there's also a lot of truth in those words too.
- ludocode 7y ago
  I have a four month old daughter. My job takes eight hours, almost two hours more for the commute, at least an hour each day for cooking and meal prep, six hours for sleep, and the rest is taken up with the baby. I get some work done on weekends or in the middle of the night but it's not enough. I recently negotiated with work to drop down to four days a week. They refused to let me do three days a week for the worst reason: my coworkers depend on me too much, so they need my butt in the chair. I tried it for a bit, but it's still nowhere near enough time to bootstrap my side project. So I decided to quit. I'll burn savings for a bit while I try to prove out my idea. My wife knows she married a starving artist. I feel a lot older than I wanted to be when starting a family, but we're getting old enough that we don't have the luxury of putting it off any longer. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford a house. Am I failing your level zero test? Not everyone is a 21 year old college graduate with zero expenses or obligations. Saying it's just the "sorriest excuse for an excuse" and "you don't have what it takes" is just insulting. Real people have real time commitments in the real world.
  - csomar 7y ago
    Just a shot in the dark. But how hard would it be to reduce your commute to practically 0? How hard would it be to convince your co-workers/manager of working remote?
  - mathgladiator 7y ago
    People make different choices, and then they have to live with the consequences. I agree that not having time is a sorry excuse because it ignores that people made decisions on how to spend their time.
  - Enginerrrd 7y ago
    For what it's worth, I did launch a side-project into a full-time company the same year my first kid was born. I would contend that if you have difficulty managing all the competing interests in your life between work family and side-projects now, it will not likely improve when you launch your former side project into a full time gig. Elon Musk is notorious for not taking vacations and sleeping on the factory floor when exciting shit is going down. His partner knows this and is ok with that. If yours isn't, then frankly, yeah it's going to be a major uphill battle and stressor on your relationship to try and pull that off. It's totally ok to not be in a position to do this. In fact, it's arguably a healthier way of living. But it may still be an indication of failing that level zero test because you just aren't into it enough. Business is not the make-a-wish foundation.
- yowlingcat 7y ago
  We're not on LinkedIn, so it's probably a good idea for you to keep the gratuitous chest-beating to a minimum. Let's be honest. Having what it takes is about whether you successfully sell the MVP you get built to happy paying customers and keep the momentum going. Simple as that. "Slogging" through the nights and weekends on an idea that doesn't have legs is a level zero test of being a glutton for pain. Don't mistake that for actual progress.
CodeWriter23 7y ago
Even a company which can go better than ramen profitable with the first sale still has risk in the expenses of closing the first sale.

koolba 7y ago

Keeping your day job and being willing to slog through your nights and weekends is a level zero test of whether you believe in your own success. “I don’t have time” is the sorriest excuse for an excuse. If you really want to make it you’ll make time. If you don’t, consider it an indication that you don’t have what it takes.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Enginerrrd 7y ago
I 100% agree with that. If you can't balance your career/interests/family/side-projects/sanity to keep everyone happy while working a day job, then good luck doing a lot more of the same after you fully launch.
HatchedLake721 7y ago
Amen
scarface74 7y ago
”I don’t have time” is the sorriest excuse for an excuse. Yeah some people have to do silly things like spend time with their kids and make sure they are attentive to their spouses.
steve_taylor 7y ago
Do you have kids? Do you have a wife pressuring you to save for a deposit on a house and get a mortgage in an overpriced market in order to provide a stable environment for the kids? I doubt it. This is typical generic startup know-it-all bullshit.
- vjktyu 7y ago
  The cynical me hints that "for the kids" is just a nice way to say "I need an option for 50% that I get to execute, should I leave our startup." With this logic, the price of the house doesn't matter.
- enraged_camel 7y ago
  >>Do you have a wife pressuring you to save for a deposit on a house and get a mortgage in an overpriced market in order to provide a stable environment for the kids? Wait... are you seriously suggesting that struggling to save the deposit for and then buying an overpriced house will provide a stable environment for your kids?
  - someguydave 7y ago
    If the environment was poor, people probably would not bid much for the house.
  - imtringued 7y ago
    You're attacking a strawman. Nobody was saying anything about struggling. Accumulating a down payment is by definition a lengthy process because you have to pay rent while you are saving up money. If you could get a mortgage with 0% down you could immediately convert the money you would have spent on rent into equity.
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  I have kids, launched my company the same year my son was born, and 100% agree with his statement. There's room for some level of success outside of failing that "level 0 test", but there's also a lot of truth in those words too.
ludocode 7y ago
I have a four month old daughter. My job takes eight hours, almost two hours more for the commute, at least an hour each day for cooking and meal prep, six hours for sleep, and the rest is taken up with the baby. I get some work done on weekends or in the middle of the night but it's not enough. I recently negotiated with work to drop down to four days a week. They refused to let me do three days a week for the worst reason: my coworkers depend on me too much, so they need my butt in the chair. I tried it for a bit, but it's still nowhere near enough time to bootstrap my side project. So I decided to quit. I'll burn savings for a bit while I try to prove out my idea. My wife knows she married a starving artist. I feel a lot older than I wanted to be when starting a family, but we're getting old enough that we don't have the luxury of putting it off any longer. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford a house. Am I failing your level zero test? Not everyone is a 21 year old college graduate with zero expenses or obligations. Saying it's just the "sorriest excuse for an excuse" and "you don't have what it takes" is just insulting. Real people have real time commitments in the real world.
- csomar 7y ago
  Just a shot in the dark. But how hard would it be to reduce your commute to practically 0? How hard would it be to convince your co-workers/manager of working remote?
- mathgladiator 7y ago
  People make different choices, and then they have to live with the consequences. I agree that not having time is a sorry excuse because it ignores that people made decisions on how to spend their time.
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  For what it's worth, I did launch a side-project into a full-time company the same year my first kid was born. I would contend that if you have difficulty managing all the competing interests in your life between work family and side-projects now, it will not likely improve when you launch your former side project into a full time gig. Elon Musk is notorious for not taking vacations and sleeping on the factory floor when exciting shit is going down. His partner knows this and is ok with that. If yours isn't, then frankly, yeah it's going to be a major uphill battle and stressor on your relationship to try and pull that off. It's totally ok to not be in a position to do this. In fact, it's arguably a healthier way of living. But it may still be an indication of failing that level zero test because you just aren't into it enough. Business is not the make-a-wish foundation.
yowlingcat 7y ago
We're not on LinkedIn, so it's probably a good idea for you to keep the gratuitous chest-beating to a minimum. Let's be honest. Having what it takes is about whether you successfully sell the MVP you get built to happy paying customers and keep the momentum going. Simple as that. "Slogging" through the nights and weekends on an idea that doesn't have legs is a level zero test of being a glutton for pain. Don't mistake that for actual progress.

CodeWriter23 7y ago

Even a company which can go better than ramen profitable with the first sale still has risk in the expenses of closing the first sale.