7 ms·

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you. Letting poor people compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality. It undermines your position of power. Western Europeans and their ancestors benefited greatly from conquest all over the world. Are Indians and Chinese somehow second rate people? They do not deserve to even compete with the White Elite of Western Europe? You should stop being egoist. Start your own company if you do not like being employee.

drharby 7y ago
I get the impression from your rant that you're dismissing the parents comments core complaint about the adverse impact of increased labor supply on the middle class and then follow on to namecalling. This style of commentary seems beneath HN's aspirational high signal low noise.
pnako 7y ago
I think you're attacking a straw man here. Chinese and Indian people can certainly compete with European people, and they do it everyday. But they can do it from China and India.
- huffmsa 7y ago
  The GP thinks its about "getting even", as if China and India were naive, noble backwaters the devious Europeans pulled the wool over and secretly exploited in 1700s. When really, they got out competed in trade and on the battlefield by the Europeans.
  - rock_v 7y ago
    So, it’s fair if a European gets out competed in the labor market today.
    - huffmsa 7y ago
      Of course it is. But it's not the European companies getting outcompeted, it's the individual laborers. So it's equally as fair for those laborers (voters) to say "no more importing cheap competition". The UK already has. It's incredibly difficult to bring in foreign employees. Edit, addendum, ignore the part about companies, though you'd said European firms.
  - palerdot 7y ago
    By the governments and private corporations (like east India company) supported by the people ... Your comment implies as if bunch of people decided to colonise the entire world outside Europe on their own whims ...
    - huffmsa 7y ago
      The European governments and private corporations were made up of and supported by private citizens, were they not?
      - ben_w 7y ago
        Back then, arguably not. “Who gets to vote” started out as a very small group.
inertiatic 7y ago
>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.
- peaceanwar 7y ago
  Something must be going horribly wrong in Greece. You can live easily of 30k in the Netherlands, I would make that to even 25k. Yes, that would mean having no car and using a bike to get around (which is common).
  - foepys 7y ago
    I think the key phrase in GP's post is "supporting a child".
    - mambru 7y ago
      In Netherlands that is probably subsidized.
      - exceptione 7y ago
        Partly, yes. Still, parent paints a picture that in today's economic climate is not practically true. I have (single living) colleagues from abroad who learn it now the hard way. Hopping from one airbnb to the other, moving al their stuff each time. Doing this for months and they start to despair now. Even local youngsters cannot afford a home anymore.
  - exceptione 7y ago
    You cannot rent a home on that income in the public market. In the areas where you could bike to work that would mean waiting 15+ years for a social housing home. Renting a room in the back lands of NL is possible, but you would need a car because public transport is only somewhat useful in the Randstad area.
ChuckNorris89 7y ago
>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Yeah, please take me and my family to this magic lala land. You can also survive on the streets with no money. That doesn't mean it's a lifestyle you should aspire to.
- foepys 7y ago
  I don't know why this being downvoted so much. A family requires a lot more money than being single. Are so many people here single without children that don't know or care about this? Raising children on 30k€ in a city in Western Europe is scratching on the government defined poverty line.
  - ben_w 7y ago
    > Raising children on 30k€ in a city in Western Europe is scratching on the government defined poverty line. What do you base this on? Based on [0], the poverty threshold in Germany is €13.152/year, and Germany is one of the richer EU nations. Even if that’s a working single parent and one child, €30k isn’t scratching the poverty line. [0] https://m.dw.com/en/germanys-minimum-wage-is-barely-above-the-poverty-line/a-46797781 https://m.dw.com/en/germanys-minimum-wage-is-barely-above-th...
    - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
      We need to stop taking government statistics as de facto goalposts. Just because the German government says you can live on €13.152/year doesn't make it a fact. Government numbers also says inflation is 2.6% last year but if I look closely, my bills and mandatory expenses have gone up way more than that. That article states that Romanians are best off in the EU when it comes to living on minimum wage, while I can tell you that it's definitely not like that in the real world. Lots of the time statistics are made with a formula tailored by the government to fit a certain political agenda.
    - foepys 7y ago
      30k is gross and 13k is net income, those are very different things. You also only looked at the poverty line for singles, not for couples (or single parent) with children. But you are in good company in this thread as nearly nobody takes children into account. Raising children on the poverty line is not the right way.
crdoconnor 7y ago
>Letting poor people compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality. It certainly contributes to brain drain which helps maintain inequality between countries. That is, unless there are fiscal transfers to India I'm unaware of to help pay for the educations their government pays for and western employers use...
ChuckNorris89 7y ago
>But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you. Is the US also wanting me underneath them by not giving me a work Visa to work at FAANG in SV?
- webpaymentsguy 7y ago
  >Is the US also wanting me underneath them by not giving me a work Visa to work FAANG? Arguably yes based on his comment. And for the record, you can work for several FAANG companies in the EU. Why not just start working?
ramblerman 7y ago
> EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. Most Europeans can’t afford a house anymore. The fear for a lot is that excess immigration and taking on refugees will break the social welfare you just mentioned. I actually agree with a lot of your points though and envision a similar future that will be less about borders. But you wrap it in such a vicious rant I imagine you are alienating people from your idea more than winning them over.
- Isinlor 7y ago
  I know that I got emotional. But to be honest, I think emotions are sometimes important to make the point clear. > The fear for a lot is that excess immigration and taking on refugees will break the social welfare you just mentioned. I understand that fear. As I was responding to another person in this thread, I know people ruthlessly exploiting western social programs to the extend that they manage to live exclusively, or almost exclusively on welfare. My mother has a neighbor who was laughing that she is silly to work, because she has Belgian fiancée and she should live off social support. But that is not the type of argument that was made originally. The original comment was by an entitled software developer, who hides behind equality. > Most Europeans can’t afford a house anymore. Many people say it, but I never seen a good analysis of that issue. If you have data to back that up I would be very happy to see it. That's something that I wanted to research for some time. My biggest question is whether it was really so easy before, or is it just still difficult. Is the issue related to immigration? Or is it due to regulations? Or something else?
close04 7y ago
> But no, you want more Don't you? And since you also do doesn't it make the rest of your point not only moot but also hypocritical? Isn't this the exact reason someone would move from a poorer country to a richer one? Not because they can't live in one but because they want a better life in the other. You can easily live without a lot of things. But sometimes it's not only about living but about how you live. > Letting poor people compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality. You're being very libertine with the suggestion that everyone else in this conversation hates "poor people" and must be racists. "Fair terms" would imply all equal. Are you competing on quality or price? Because winning solely on price is a sure way to lower everyone's wages over time but also lower the quality. Doesn't this push better qualified people to places where "fairness" implies more than accepting the lowest possible salary? > Are Indians and Chinese somehow second rate people? They do not deserve to even compete with the White Elite of Western Europe? This makes you sound incredibly racist.
ChuckNorris89 7y ago
> But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. If that was the case, birthrates wouldn't be so low in Europe. Free school and healthcare doesn't support your family when rents are higher than ever and fewer people than ever can afford to buy a property to raise a family in.
- lake99 7y ago
  I haven't seen any evidence that birthrates have anything to do with having a high income in developed economies. All the evidence I have seen points in the other direction, where when women's education and career are de-emphasized by the society, the birthrates are high.
- baybal2 7y ago
  If you live in the EU, downshift! With stable $30k you can easily buy a seaside villa in Bulgaria on a 7 year credit with today rates.
  - blub 7y ago
    I've come to the conclusion that the economics are only part of the story. Unless one is single, there's a ton of stuff you have to worry about, from finding a job for the spouse, to learning the language, subtle to not so subtle xenophobia, navigating a different social & political system, etc. Moving with kids makes things even more complicated, to the point that we essentially only have migration from poorer to richer countries. I'd wager immigration from the west to the east is almost zero. I know some cases, but it's a tiny minority. Then there's the fact that most people don't want to live in another country, surrounded by foreigners speaking a language they will almost certainly never speak fluently themselves.
- mcv 7y ago
  Low birthrate isn't caused by high rent, but by a highly educated population and an economic system where kids aren't necessary to take care of you when you get old.
Fjordbored 7y ago
Ok, neo-liberal shill.
- dang 7y ago
  We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. Please don't create accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
mk89 7y ago
> But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you. Why does wanting more imply having people underneath you? Your comment is full of frustration, hatred and anger, it doesn't have any argument in it. I hope you can see that. The main issue stems from the fact that Europeans have a different lifestyle, therefore, moving forward for them implies having actually higher wages, not lower ones, in order to have at the end of the month some free days of vacation, health insurance for the family, etc etc. The comment you are answering to says exactly that. It didn't mention anything like "let's send them back" or whatever it is, as you seem to imply with your words. It was an honest observation (backed up by economists, by the way, just google that) about the fact that by giving more work to people who get less money won't do anything else than lowering the salaries for the entire sector. Of course, it will give people from other countries a possibility to work and make it, however, as a local citizen wishing to improve my country and the average income, why would I care about people coming from other countries? I mean, what do I get in return?
- finolex1 7y ago
  > however, as a local citizen wishing to improve my country and the average income, why would I care about people coming from other countries? I mean, what do I get in return? The main point of contention is not about whether this would improve the quality of life of the average EU programmer. It is about concealing what is just naked self-interest (i.e. concern about one's own wages) with noble talk of 'inequality'. I don't think there's anything wrong with concern for one's own interests, but trying to phrase it as a worry about something else comes off as a bit disingenuous. Secondly, this just smacks of protectionism. If everyone thought the same way, we would have nowhere close to the diverse array of goods available to the modern consumer at such low prices.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    What's wrong with self interest and protectionism? My family comes first. I don't want to be part in the salary race to the bottom for the sake of lower prices and consumerism.
faned 7y ago
If you believe this—truly—is it safe to assume you support open borders for Israel?
throwno 7y ago
Rich to hear Indians feeling entitled to EU immigration when the Indians just happily passed a law against Muslim immigration. Letting poor muslims compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality. It undermines your position of power.
- bg117 7y ago
  Its good to understand history. India and Pakistan were partitioned based on Religion. Muslims under Jinnah decided that Muslims cannot live in a united country and partitioned United India. Millions were killed during that transition in 1947. Same with Bangladesh in 1906. Things were settled long time back once and partition is a one-time affair. Is it not?
- mkbkn 7y ago
  > when the Indians just happily passed a law against Muslim immigration That's because of the current Fascists govt who is hell bent on copying 1984, China & Nazis. Most Indians do not support this law.
  - bg117 7y ago
    Most? Any data to backup?
- pergadad 7y ago
  Not everyone agrees with that law. In fact there are massive protests against it with dozens dead.
bumblebee4 7y ago
As an engineer, isn't life in Asia more luxurious because you can easily afford a maid and other amenities? Seriously, what's the benefit of moving into Western Europe?
- novaRom 7y ago
  Freedom of speech and action. Less corruption. Clean air and environment. More social protections.
- vsskanth 7y ago
  No corruption for basic services, access to decent education, property rights and if in the US, money. Although the access to education is now being heavily gated by property values in countries like US.
IdiocyInAction 7y ago
> But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you. No, I want the country I live in to act in the interest of its own citizens and not of the interest of India. After all, I pay masses of taxes, so I think it is not unfair to expect my government to not work towards making sure I get paid even less than I do now.
acroback 7y ago
Hey man, why you have to burn someone so hard that they curl up in their bed crying tears of agony like a little pussy? Slow clap
dang 7y ago
Your comment breaks many of the site guidelines. That's not ok, regardless of how wrong or bad some other comment is (or you feel it is). Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and using this site as intended? Flamewar rants, personal attacks, and denunciatory rhetoric are no way to persuade anyone, let alone to have curious conversation, which is what this site is for. It's clear that you have good reasons for feeling strongly on this topic, and I definitely don't mean to disrespect that. But it's necessary to post respectfully and with dignity in order to properly represent one's point of view on a topic like this. If you stoop to just flaming the other side, you end up discrediting the very truth that you're trying to express (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20truth%20discredit&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...).
- Isinlor 7y ago
  True. I will rewrite it in a better style. Thanks for the work you are doing!
  - dang 7y ago
    Appreciated!

drharby 7y ago

I get the impression from your rant that you're dismissing the parents comments core complaint about the adverse impact of increased labor supply on the middle class and then follow on to namecalling. This style of commentary seems beneath HN's aspirational high signal low noise.

pnako 7y ago

I think you're attacking a straw man here. Chinese and Indian people can certainly compete with European people, and they do it everyday. But they can do it from China and India.

huffmsa 7y ago
The GP thinks its about "getting even", as if China and India were naive, noble backwaters the devious Europeans pulled the wool over and secretly exploited in 1700s. When really, they got out competed in trade and on the battlefield by the Europeans.
- rock_v 7y ago
  So, it’s fair if a European gets out competed in the labor market today.
  - huffmsa 7y ago
    Of course it is. But it's not the European companies getting outcompeted, it's the individual laborers. So it's equally as fair for those laborers (voters) to say "no more importing cheap competition". The UK already has. It's incredibly difficult to bring in foreign employees. Edit, addendum, ignore the part about companies, though you'd said European firms.
- palerdot 7y ago
  By the governments and private corporations (like east India company) supported by the people ... Your comment implies as if bunch of people decided to colonise the entire world outside Europe on their own whims ...
  - huffmsa 7y ago
    The European governments and private corporations were made up of and supported by private citizens, were they not?
    - ben_w 7y ago
      Back then, arguably not. “Who gets to vote” started out as a very small group.

inertiatic 7y ago

>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.

peaceanwar 7y ago
Something must be going horribly wrong in Greece. You can live easily of 30k in the Netherlands, I would make that to even 25k. Yes, that would mean having no car and using a bike to get around (which is common).
- foepys 7y ago
  I think the key phrase in GP's post is "supporting a child".
  - mambru 7y ago
    In Netherlands that is probably subsidized.
    - exceptione 7y ago
      Partly, yes. Still, parent paints a picture that in today's economic climate is not practically true. I have (single living) colleagues from abroad who learn it now the hard way. Hopping from one airbnb to the other, moving al their stuff each time. Doing this for months and they start to despair now. Even local youngsters cannot afford a home anymore.
- exceptione 7y ago
  You cannot rent a home on that income in the public market. In the areas where you could bike to work that would mean waiting 15+ years for a social housing home. Renting a room in the back lands of NL is possible, but you would need a car because public transport is only somewhat useful in the Randstad area.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Yeah, please take me and my family to this magic lala land. You can also survive on the streets with no money. That doesn't mean it's a lifestyle you should aspire to.

foepys 7y ago
I don't know why this being downvoted so much. A family requires a lot more money than being single. Are so many people here single without children that don't know or care about this? Raising children on 30k€ in a city in Western Europe is scratching on the government defined poverty line.
- ben_w 7y ago
  > Raising children on 30k€ in a city in Western Europe is scratching on the government defined poverty line. What do you base this on? Based on [0], the poverty threshold in Germany is €13.152/year, and Germany is one of the richer EU nations. Even if that’s a working single parent and one child, €30k isn’t scratching the poverty line. [0] https://m.dw.com/en/germanys-minimum-wage-is-barely-above-the-poverty-line/a-46797781 https://m.dw.com/en/germanys-minimum-wage-is-barely-above-th...
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    We need to stop taking government statistics as de facto goalposts. Just because the German government says you can live on €13.152/year doesn't make it a fact. Government numbers also says inflation is 2.6% last year but if I look closely, my bills and mandatory expenses have gone up way more than that. That article states that Romanians are best off in the EU when it comes to living on minimum wage, while I can tell you that it's definitely not like that in the real world. Lots of the time statistics are made with a formula tailored by the government to fit a certain political agenda.
  - foepys 7y ago
    30k is gross and 13k is net income, those are very different things. You also only looked at the poverty line for singles, not for couples (or single parent) with children. But you are in good company in this thread as nearly nobody takes children into account. Raising children on the poverty line is not the right way.

crdoconnor 7y ago

>Letting poor people compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality. It certainly contributes to brain drain which helps maintain inequality between countries. That is, unless there are fiscal transfers to India I'm unaware of to help pay for the educations their government pays for and western employers use...

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

>But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you. Is the US also wanting me underneath them by not giving me a work Visa to work at FAANG in SV?

webpaymentsguy 7y ago
>Is the US also wanting me underneath them by not giving me a work Visa to work FAANG? Arguably yes based on his comment. And for the record, you can work for several FAANG companies in the EU. Why not just start working?

ramblerman 7y ago

> EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. Most Europeans can’t afford a house anymore. The fear for a lot is that excess immigration and taking on refugees will break the social welfare you just mentioned. I actually agree with a lot of your points though and envision a similar future that will be less about borders. But you wrap it in such a vicious rant I imagine you are alienating people from your idea more than winning them over.

Isinlor 7y ago
I know that I got emotional. But to be honest, I think emotions are sometimes important to make the point clear. > The fear for a lot is that excess immigration and taking on refugees will break the social welfare you just mentioned. I understand that fear. As I was responding to another person in this thread, I know people ruthlessly exploiting western social programs to the extend that they manage to live exclusively, or almost exclusively on welfare. My mother has a neighbor who was laughing that she is silly to work, because she has Belgian fiancée and she should live off social support. But that is not the type of argument that was made originally. The original comment was by an entitled software developer, who hides behind equality. > Most Europeans can’t afford a house anymore. Many people say it, but I never seen a good analysis of that issue. If you have data to back that up I would be very happy to see it. That's something that I wanted to research for some time. My biggest question is whether it was really so easy before, or is it just still difficult. Is the issue related to immigration? Or is it due to regulations? Or something else?

close04 7y ago

> But no, you want more Don't you? And since you also do doesn't it make the rest of your point not only moot but also hypocritical? Isn't this the exact reason someone would move from a poorer country to a richer one? Not because they can't live in one but because they want a better life in the other. You can easily live without a lot of things. But sometimes it's not only about living but about how you live. > Letting poor people compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality. You're being very libertine with the suggestion that everyone else in this conversation hates "poor people" and must be racists. "Fair terms" would imply all equal. Are you competing on quality or price? Because winning solely on price is a sure way to lower everyone's wages over time but also lower the quality. Doesn't this push better qualified people to places where "fairness" implies more than accepting the lowest possible salary? > Are Indians and Chinese somehow second rate people? They do not deserve to even compete with the White Elite of Western Europe? This makes you sound incredibly racist.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

> But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. If that was the case, birthrates wouldn't be so low in Europe. Free school and healthcare doesn't support your family when rents are higher than ever and fewer people than ever can afford to buy a property to raise a family in.

lake99 7y ago
I haven't seen any evidence that birthrates have anything to do with having a high income in developed economies. All the evidence I have seen points in the other direction, where when women's education and career are de-emphasized by the society, the birthrates are high.
baybal2 7y ago
If you live in the EU, downshift! With stable $30k you can easily buy a seaside villa in Bulgaria on a 7 year credit with today rates.
- blub 7y ago
  I've come to the conclusion that the economics are only part of the story. Unless one is single, there's a ton of stuff you have to worry about, from finding a job for the spouse, to learning the language, subtle to not so subtle xenophobia, navigating a different social & political system, etc. Moving with kids makes things even more complicated, to the point that we essentially only have migration from poorer to richer countries. I'd wager immigration from the west to the east is almost zero. I know some cases, but it's a tiny minority. Then there's the fact that most people don't want to live in another country, surrounded by foreigners speaking a language they will almost certainly never speak fluently themselves.
mcv 7y ago
Low birthrate isn't caused by high rent, but by a highly educated population and an economic system where kids aren't necessary to take care of you when you get old.

Fjordbored 7y ago

Ok, neo-liberal shill.

dang 7y ago
We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. Please don't create accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

mk89 7y ago

> But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you. Why does wanting more imply having people underneath you? Your comment is full of frustration, hatred and anger, it doesn't have any argument in it. I hope you can see that. The main issue stems from the fact that Europeans have a different lifestyle, therefore, moving forward for them implies having actually higher wages, not lower ones, in order to have at the end of the month some free days of vacation, health insurance for the family, etc etc. The comment you are answering to says exactly that. It didn't mention anything like "let's send them back" or whatever it is, as you seem to imply with your words. It was an honest observation (backed up by economists, by the way, just google that) about the fact that by giving more work to people who get less money won't do anything else than lowering the salaries for the entire sector. Of course, it will give people from other countries a possibility to work and make it, however, as a local citizen wishing to improve my country and the average income, why would I care about people coming from other countries? I mean, what do I get in return?

finolex1 7y ago
> however, as a local citizen wishing to improve my country and the average income, why would I care about people coming from other countries? I mean, what do I get in return? The main point of contention is not about whether this would improve the quality of life of the average EU programmer. It is about concealing what is just naked self-interest (i.e. concern about one's own wages) with noble talk of 'inequality'. I don't think there's anything wrong with concern for one's own interests, but trying to phrase it as a worry about something else comes off as a bit disingenuous. Secondly, this just smacks of protectionism. If everyone thought the same way, we would have nowhere close to the diverse array of goods available to the modern consumer at such low prices.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  What's wrong with self interest and protectionism? My family comes first. I don't want to be part in the salary race to the bottom for the sake of lower prices and consumerism.

faned 7y ago

If you believe this—truly—is it safe to assume you support open borders for Israel?

throwno 7y ago

Rich to hear Indians feeling entitled to EU immigration when the Indians just happily passed a law against Muslim immigration. Letting poor muslims compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality. It undermines your position of power.

bg117 7y ago
Its good to understand history. India and Pakistan were partitioned based on Religion. Muslims under Jinnah decided that Muslims cannot live in a united country and partitioned United India. Millions were killed during that transition in 1947. Same with Bangladesh in 1906. Things were settled long time back once and partition is a one-time affair. Is it not?
mkbkn 7y ago
> when the Indians just happily passed a law against Muslim immigration That's because of the current Fascists govt who is hell bent on copying 1984, China & Nazis. Most Indians do not support this law.
- bg117 7y ago
  Most? Any data to backup?
pergadad 7y ago
Not everyone agrees with that law. In fact there are massive protests against it with dozens dead.

bumblebee4 7y ago

As an engineer, isn't life in Asia more luxurious because you can easily afford a maid and other amenities? Seriously, what's the benefit of moving into Western Europe?

novaRom 7y ago
Freedom of speech and action. Less corruption. Clean air and environment. More social protections.
vsskanth 7y ago
No corruption for basic services, access to decent education, property rights and if in the US, money. Although the access to education is now being heavily gated by property values in countries like US.

IdiocyInAction 7y ago

> But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you. No, I want the country I live in to act in the interest of its own citizens and not of the interest of India. After all, I pay masses of taxes, so I think it is not unfair to expect my government to not work towards making sure I get paid even less than I do now.

acroback 7y ago

Hey man, why you have to burn someone so hard that they curl up in their bed crying tears of agony like a little pussy? Slow clap

dang 7y ago

Your comment breaks many of the site guidelines. That's not ok, regardless of how wrong or bad some other comment is (or you feel it is). Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and using this site as intended? Flamewar rants, personal attacks, and denunciatory rhetoric are no way to persuade anyone, let alone to have curious conversation, which is what this site is for. It's clear that you have good reasons for feeling strongly on this topic, and I definitely don't mean to disrespect that. But it's necessary to post respectfully and with dignity in order to properly represent one's point of view on a topic like this. If you stoop to just flaming the other side, you end up discrediting the very truth that you're trying to express (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20truth%20discredit&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...).

Isinlor 7y ago
True. I will rewrite it in a better style. Thanks for the work you are doing!
- dang 7y ago
  Appreciated!