8 ms·

quick rule of thumb I developed - if product has long shelf life and does not require refrigeration - it is probably unhealthy. fruits and veggies get optimize

quick rule of thumb I developed - if product has long shelf life and does not require refrigeration - it is probably unhealthy. fruits and veggies get optimized for heavier weight per piece and longer shelf life, instead of taste. Same thing for every other grocery product.

Faaak 7y ago
exceptions: nuts, olive oil, pasta, flour, water, rice, potatoes, apples, etc. But i like the idea
- lemoncucumber 7y ago
  Even many of those exceptions sacrifice taste in the name of shelf life and consistency: Mass-market olive oil has much less flavor than fresher, smaller-batch olive oil. Fresh pasta tastes better than dried pasta. Flours made from heritage grains are making a comeback in gourmet baking. Red delicious/golden delicious/granny smith apples taste far worse than many of the less mass-market alternatives. Etc.
- namdnay 7y ago
  And pretty much all pulses Regarding olive oil, it will store fairly well if kept in sealed in the dark, however it definitely loses its kick after the first 6 months
athenot 7y ago
I have a similar rule of thumb: if it's not part of any culture's traditional cuisine, it's probably unhealthy. Long shelf life is not necessarily an issue; I've eaten home-made canned cherries & plums that were 10 years old. Wine can also have a long shelf life (though most don't). But your point stands with the varietals optimized for appearance and tolerance to shipping as opposed to flavor. I've come to realize why many consider fruits and vegetables not very appealing is that almost all of what is available is tasteless.
- trianglem 7y ago
  I doubt that. Pretty much all of Northern European preserved meats are terrible for you.
  - DiabloD3 7y ago
    Except they kind of aren't. Northern Europeans used the same techniques that many other cultures used across the globe: remove as much water content as possible, use herbs that have certain bacteria-inhibiting properties that also taste good, apply liberal salt. Everything is some evolution of this. You may wish to provide an example as to what you mean, because I suspect whatever you are referring to is more modern (ie, in the past 300 or so years).
    - roel_v 7y ago
      Are you talking about sausage? Because herbs aren't for preservation in sausages. The 'natural' preservative in sausages is celery, which has nitrate, which is then converted to nitrite during curing. 'Biological' sausage makers still do that, because this way they don't have to disclose nitrite additives, althougj their final product has more nitrite than properly dosed regular sausages. I still think there's no real problem with eating preserved meat, but the misguided worship of ye good old times needs to stop.
      - DiabloD3 7y ago
        The way sausage is made now is most certainly a modern invention, but nitrates and nitrites are not bad for you, nor toxic, in of itself as a family of chemicals. The problem in the modern industrial world is the use of artificial nitrates and nitrites present outside of plain sodium or potassium nitrite, which thankfully is starting to become more rare again. Also, there is no scientific link between nitrate consumption and cancer, only really awfully designed papers that somehow, and very unreasonably so, got published in journals.
        mathrawka 7y ago
open-source-ux 7y ago
"if product has long shelf life and does not require refrigeration - it is probably unhealthy" There are a lot of exceptions though: dried lentils and pulses, pasta, ground spices (and to a less extent whole spices). Tinned fruit, vegetables, beans and pulses are often fine too. Some vegetables, like onions and potatoes, can be stored for many weeks in a cool environment (not in the refrigerator). Also, UHT milk has a long shelf life and is not unhealthy, although it tastes awful.
- autokad 7y ago
  honey, water, legumes, etc. Among diet rule of thumbs, its not a great one.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  > Also, UHT milk has a long shelf life and is not unhealthy, although it tastes awful. Sure you're not getting it confused with evaporated milk? UHT milk doesn't taste much different at all, maybe the slightest caramel flavor. I swapped to it when I got tired of running out of milk at random, now I can just stock the pantry and always grab a spare when I kick the one in the fridge.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    You’re probably in an area where the dairies have consolidated and milk tastes like crap. UHT milk is not at all tasty compared to normal milk and has a different consistency. I like it as an alternative beverage or coffee creamer, especially for camping.
  - realusername 7y ago
    UHT milk is very different taste-wise, that's the number one reason of why it's not used that much.
grecy 7y ago
Even easier - only buy and cook/eat things from the supermarket that have one ingredient.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  Really? It'd be hard to give up miso, or fish sauce, or chocolate. Or beer. Or gochujang. Cheese. Baking powder. Mustard... I could make some of these things myself, but that's a pretty tall order.
  - grecy 7y ago
    Sure, it's hard to give up McDonalds and coke too, but I wasn't talking about what you want to eat, I was talking about what you should eat. If you want to avoid overly-processed food (like TFA), then do you best to stick to things that have one ingredient.
    - Pfhreak 7y ago
      No, those things are trivial to give up. Plenty of fermented foods are both good for you and contain many ingredients, for example.
  - undersuit 7y ago
    >I could make some of these things myself, but that's a pretty tall order. Maybe that's the point. You mention chocolate, 100% chocolate exists but children aren't going to ever eat it when there's a Hershey bar available.
- yellowapple 7y ago
  ...like Crisco, apparently.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
nimbius 7y ago
>if product has long shelf life and does not require refrigeration - it is probably unhealthy. Beef Jerky, dried chiles beans and legumes, as well as canned vegetables would beg to differ. steel cut Oats, carefully stored, will easily survive close to a decade. naturally fermented pickles can last months on end as well. In the US, canned beans and frozen vegetables are among the most opulent excesses of the boomer era that ushered in among other things, the tv dinner and immortal confection we know to be a twinkie. Most of a grocery store is structured to completely disregard seasonal produce and function on an almost comical dependence on low diesel prices in order to truck fruits, vegetables, and meats thousands of miles cross country.
- hansthehorse 7y ago
  The trucking industry depends on comically low driver wages not low fuel prices, although fuel costs are a factor. An over the road trucker used to be able to support a family easily, making 80k in todays money in the 70s and 80s. Today they can expect to make an average of 40k working for a trucking company. There is a severe shortage of over the road drivers and I believe this is the major reason. It's a tough and unhealthy life and the money incentive is gone.
  - Simon_says 7y ago
    Good. It's a terrible job.
- ip26 7y ago
  Frozen vegetables are no heavier than fresh vegetables, and there is far less spoilage. They are, IMO, to be celebrated. Especially frozen peas & blueberries.
heavyset_go 7y ago
You can jar fresh fruit and vegetables with a pressure cooker and they will have an incredibly long shelf life.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
They shouldn’t even get optimized for taste. Otherwise you end up with super sweet apples that have less nutritional value than they used to have. It will probably be hard to define what nutritional value is but otherwise we end up fruits and veggies being bred to be fast food.
- ip26 7y ago
  If there was zero selection then apples would still be crabapples. Diverse choice & multiple grading criteria seems like the most sane foundation. The story of the Washington Delicious apple is a cautionary tale, bred for appearance to the detriment of all else.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Faaak 7y ago

exceptions: nuts, olive oil, pasta, flour, water, rice, potatoes, apples, etc. But i like the idea

lemoncucumber 7y ago
Even many of those exceptions sacrifice taste in the name of shelf life and consistency: Mass-market olive oil has much less flavor than fresher, smaller-batch olive oil. Fresh pasta tastes better than dried pasta. Flours made from heritage grains are making a comeback in gourmet baking. Red delicious/golden delicious/granny smith apples taste far worse than many of the less mass-market alternatives. Etc.
namdnay 7y ago
And pretty much all pulses Regarding olive oil, it will store fairly well if kept in sealed in the dark, however it definitely loses its kick after the first 6 months

athenot 7y ago

I have a similar rule of thumb: if it's not part of any culture's traditional cuisine, it's probably unhealthy. Long shelf life is not necessarily an issue; I've eaten home-made canned cherries & plums that were 10 years old. Wine can also have a long shelf life (though most don't). But your point stands with the varietals optimized for appearance and tolerance to shipping as opposed to flavor. I've come to realize why many consider fruits and vegetables not very appealing is that almost all of what is available is tasteless.

trianglem 7y ago
I doubt that. Pretty much all of Northern European preserved meats are terrible for you.
- DiabloD3 7y ago
  Except they kind of aren't. Northern Europeans used the same techniques that many other cultures used across the globe: remove as much water content as possible, use herbs that have certain bacteria-inhibiting properties that also taste good, apply liberal salt. Everything is some evolution of this. You may wish to provide an example as to what you mean, because I suspect whatever you are referring to is more modern (ie, in the past 300 or so years).
  - roel_v 7y ago
    Are you talking about sausage? Because herbs aren't for preservation in sausages. The 'natural' preservative in sausages is celery, which has nitrate, which is then converted to nitrite during curing. 'Biological' sausage makers still do that, because this way they don't have to disclose nitrite additives, althougj their final product has more nitrite than properly dosed regular sausages. I still think there's no real problem with eating preserved meat, but the misguided worship of ye good old times needs to stop.
    - DiabloD3 7y ago
      The way sausage is made now is most certainly a modern invention, but nitrates and nitrites are not bad for you, nor toxic, in of itself as a family of chemicals. The problem in the modern industrial world is the use of artificial nitrates and nitrites present outside of plain sodium or potassium nitrite, which thankfully is starting to become more rare again. Also, there is no scientific link between nitrate consumption and cancer, only really awfully designed papers that somehow, and very unreasonably so, got published in journals.
      - mathrawka 7y ago

open-source-ux 7y ago

"if product has long shelf life and does not require refrigeration - it is probably unhealthy" There are a lot of exceptions though: dried lentils and pulses, pasta, ground spices (and to a less extent whole spices). Tinned fruit, vegetables, beans and pulses are often fine too. Some vegetables, like onions and potatoes, can be stored for many weeks in a cool environment (not in the refrigerator). Also, UHT milk has a long shelf life and is not unhealthy, although it tastes awful.

autokad 7y ago
honey, water, legumes, etc. Among diet rule of thumbs, its not a great one.
joecool1029 7y ago
> Also, UHT milk has a long shelf life and is not unhealthy, although it tastes awful. Sure you're not getting it confused with evaporated milk? UHT milk doesn't taste much different at all, maybe the slightest caramel flavor. I swapped to it when I got tired of running out of milk at random, now I can just stock the pantry and always grab a spare when I kick the one in the fridge.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  You’re probably in an area where the dairies have consolidated and milk tastes like crap. UHT milk is not at all tasty compared to normal milk and has a different consistency. I like it as an alternative beverage or coffee creamer, especially for camping.
- realusername 7y ago
  UHT milk is very different taste-wise, that's the number one reason of why it's not used that much.

grecy 7y ago

Even easier - only buy and cook/eat things from the supermarket that have one ingredient.

Pfhreak 7y ago
Really? It'd be hard to give up miso, or fish sauce, or chocolate. Or beer. Or gochujang. Cheese. Baking powder. Mustard... I could make some of these things myself, but that's a pretty tall order.
- grecy 7y ago
  Sure, it's hard to give up McDonalds and coke too, but I wasn't talking about what you want to eat, I was talking about what you should eat. If you want to avoid overly-processed food (like TFA), then do you best to stick to things that have one ingredient.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    No, those things are trivial to give up. Plenty of fermented foods are both good for you and contain many ingredients, for example.
- undersuit 7y ago
  >I could make some of these things myself, but that's a pretty tall order. Maybe that's the point. You mention chocolate, 100% chocolate exists but children aren't going to ever eat it when there's a Hershey bar available.
yellowapple 7y ago
...like Crisco, apparently.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

nimbius 7y ago

>if product has long shelf life and does not require refrigeration - it is probably unhealthy. Beef Jerky, dried chiles beans and legumes, as well as canned vegetables would beg to differ. steel cut Oats, carefully stored, will easily survive close to a decade. naturally fermented pickles can last months on end as well. In the US, canned beans and frozen vegetables are among the most opulent excesses of the boomer era that ushered in among other things, the tv dinner and immortal confection we know to be a twinkie. Most of a grocery store is structured to completely disregard seasonal produce and function on an almost comical dependence on low diesel prices in order to truck fruits, vegetables, and meats thousands of miles cross country.

hansthehorse 7y ago
The trucking industry depends on comically low driver wages not low fuel prices, although fuel costs are a factor. An over the road trucker used to be able to support a family easily, making 80k in todays money in the 70s and 80s. Today they can expect to make an average of 40k working for a trucking company. There is a severe shortage of over the road drivers and I believe this is the major reason. It's a tough and unhealthy life and the money incentive is gone.
- Simon_says 7y ago
  Good. It's a terrible job.
ip26 7y ago
Frozen vegetables are no heavier than fresh vegetables, and there is far less spoilage. They are, IMO, to be celebrated. Especially frozen peas & blueberries.

heavyset_go 7y ago

You can jar fresh fruit and vegetables with a pressure cooker and they will have an incredibly long shelf life.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

They shouldn’t even get optimized for taste. Otherwise you end up with super sweet apples that have less nutritional value than they used to have. It will probably be hard to define what nutritional value is but otherwise we end up fruits and veggies being bred to be fast food.

ip26 7y ago
If there was zero selection then apples would still be crabapples. Diverse choice & multiple grading criteria seems like the most sane foundation. The story of the Washington Delicious apple is a cautionary tale, bred for appearance to the detriment of all else.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]