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Isn't this the plot of BioShock? If this sounds like a dorky joke post, it's not. Isn't this literally motivated by the same neo-fuedal oligarchical narcissis
by SerLava 7y ago
Isn't this the plot of BioShock?
If this sounds like a dorky joke post, it's not.
Isn't this literally motivated by the same neo-fuedal oligarchical narcissism that made the bad guy in BioShock build essentially the same thing as this? Tell me one of these "seasteads" won't get hit by some speedboat pirates and decide OK, we're gonna arm up and hey why not build down? And you know what? No one's gonna say we can't do human experiments on our residents, so why not? As long as they sign their names to it.
Just stay in Palo Alto or whatever, and pay your god damned taxes. This is bleak, bleak stuff.
“Do I want to create the first venture-backed city-state? Hell yeah”
- arrosenberg 7y ago> “Do I want to create the first venture-backed city-state? Hell yeah” Ahem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies And we all know how well that turned out for the locals.
- vanusa 7y agoIt's their plain for the whole planet, basically. In fact it's what the whole idea of "smashing the state" has been about all along.
- friendlybus 7y agoYou would need a private military for that.
- aaronbrethorst 7y agoYou’re in luck! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi Also, this story is wild: https://theintercept.com/2019/05/03/erik-prince-trump-uae-project-veritas/ https://theintercept.com/2019/05/03/erik-prince-trump-uae-pr...
- sgnelson 7y agoI like this game. Let's continue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Free_State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Free_State Nope, there's absolutely nothing that could go wrong here.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- vanusa 7y agoPlus ça change, plus c'est la même chose: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21824178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21824178
- throwawaybbb 7y agoHere's one in the US: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Company https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Company The 90% death rate in the first two years is really impressive.
- walshemj 7y agoAnd in a similar vein John Company taking over India
- dickeytk 7y agoWe’ve seen a bit of this domestically too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip
- Ididntdothis 7y agoWell, I am glad I work in medical devices. Vouchers for stents or pacemakers probably won’t be very attractive.
- dickeytk 7y agoScrip is certainly not limited to the products a company produces. In the states it was lumber and mining companies but the stores offered whatever people needed.
- SerLava 7y agoThis is kind of the worst part- that they lack the historical literacy to recognize that they wouldn't even be the first. And they'll just dive headlong into it.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- darawk 7y agoWhy the fear of opt-in competition? Nobody is forcing anyone to move to these places. What they are is an opportunity to try out new governance modes. They might work or they might not. I find the hostility towards people trying new things to be strange and misplaced.
- arrosenberg 7y ago> Why the fear of opt-in competition? Nobody is forcing anyone to move to these places. What they are is an opportunity to try out new governance modes. It's a governance mode that was heavily used throughout the European colonial period and it resulted in the rape and theft of the local populations and underclasses of all the nations involved. When you put things in the proper historical context, the hostility is rather well-reasoned.
- nsxwolf 7y agoWeren't there always native populations involved in these cases? That isn't the case with seasteading. For now you have to assent to the idea and immigrate.
- klyrs 7y ago> For now you have to assent to the idea and immigrate. Unless you're a victim of human trafficking. Or, for example, read up on how scientologists use their cruise ship [1]. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/03/world/scientology-cruise-ship/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/03/world/scientology-cruise-ship...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- xwdv 7y agoWhat’s bleak about consensual human experiments? The volunteers who sign up are doing a great service for all mankind. There is so much to learn.
- dillonmckay 7y agoI’ll start with this one... https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2917810/elephant-man-drug-testing-trial-tgn1412/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2917810/elephant-man-drug-test...
- SerLava 7y agoOK now Sea Citizen, you haven't been hitting your production targets... This is the third month you've failed to qualify for the monthly "bonus" scrip. After rent and commissary, I'm afraid that puts you in the red. And I don't have to tell you what that means. There aren't any open positions higher up, and you aren't exactly a top performer. The only way I see you digging out of this is signing up for the Human Initiative Project. A couple injections a week, plus your regular salary, and you'll have more than enough scrip. Don't believe the rumors, you'll be just fine.
- stale2002 7y agoPretty sure the whole point of all of this is that it is voluntary. People are free to leave, if they don't like living in the special economic zone.
- patrissimo1976 7y agoJust stay in Manchester or whatever, and pay your god damned taxes to the king. Moving to the New World is bleak, bleak stuff. Just stay on Earth or whatever, and fix your god damned environment. Settling the Solar System - how dare you? Tell me one of those space ships won't get hit by an asteroid. I mean, heck, the idea of doing a startup of any kind is dangerously transgressive. If you make new things, something bad might happen! And existing companies might lose customers! There will be change! Chaos! Mayhem! Or - crazy idea here - perhaps we could have the courage to not let the plot of a video game limit our social innovation? Or, if that's the only metric you have, at least pick the right game - SimCity!
- dbspin 7y agoStartups aren't remotely transgressive. They're heavily promoted, financed and supported by virtually every state government and have been for decades (centuries if you count the startups behind colonial enterprises). Settling the solarsystem would be neat. It won't do anything to fix climate changes or overpopulation. It's not even possible in principle, let alone practice to remove significant quantities of people from the gravity well. Creating lawless zones for the specific purpose of fiefdom isn't new, entrepreneurial or even particularly imaginative. Unless you count the villains of Connery era James Bond as novel entrepreneurs. Just where do you think these marvelously useful, livable but mysteriously uninhabited "vacant tracts of land in developing countries" will come from.
- patrissimo1976 7y agoCharter cities are, like startups, heavily supported by the partner nation. The models are Dubai & Shenzhen. Instead of being completely funded and operated by the state, the new generation of cities will be public-private partnerships between developers and nations. A small, incremental degree of privatization. I have no idea where you get "lawless" or "fiefdom". These zones are requested, authorized, regulated, and monitored by a nation. Do you think the 3,000 SEZs in the world are lawless fiefdoms? This is strangely hyperbolic language for what's basically a new kind of free trade zone. Would make a good movie plot, though, you've got a grand imagination!
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- yters 7y agoIsn't this how most other civilizations lived in Europe, Africa, and the Americas, as small city states, until the recent entry (in the west) of eastern style nation states?
- aww_dang 7y agoI find it interesting that a site who's stated mission is "promotion of intellectual curiosity", consistently lacks curiosity about ideas which question the primacy of the state. In this case, because 'video games'. Perhaps if readers had more curiosity they might be interested to investigate the topic of voluntarism, free-association and economic theory. This is not to say that there is no room to disagree with the aforementioned ideas. However, I feel disappointed that the most prominent comment here forgoes literacy and logic in lieu of hyperbole while citing the plot of a video game. Intellectual curiosity indeed.
- stale2002 7y ago> won't get hit by some speedboat pirates and decide OK, we're gonna arm up No. What will happen is that the authorities will arrest the pirates, or whoever. All of this is being done within the bounds of the law. So I am not sure why people are bringing up ridiculous hypotheticals. Special economic zones are not a new thing. And they have worked out fine in many places.
- tim333 7y ago> This is bleak, bleak stuff. There have been a number of low tax, rule of law city states like Hong Kong and Singapore that did rather well and provided a refuge for many Chinese when China was going a bit nuts under Mao and the like. It's not all bleak.
- pasabagi 7y agoI don't know if Singapore counts - it's a fascist dictatorship.
- nwah1 7y agoThe extent to which their political and economic system is influenced by fascism may be up for debate, but given that they've not conducted any genocide or imperialism, the charge doesn't hold the gravity that you intend.
- tim333 7y agoDidn't seem very fascist when I was there. The Economist Intelligence Unit has it as a 'flawed democracy', the same category as the US. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index)
- SerLava 7y agoThe Democracy Index rankings are non-transparent measures by a less than objective organization that places significant weight on a country's openness to multinational corporations. Singapore specifically is an example people use to illustrate the inherent flaws of the Democracy Index rating system. This is a country with low press freedom, one ruling party that sues the opposition into bankruptcy for "defamation" to prevent any loss of power, and oh, they execute people for carrying drugs.
- sandoooo 7y agoLet me just remind everybody that Bioshock is a computer game, its plot is fiction, and it constitutes no evidence whatsoever tht a real-life scenario that start the same way would end the same way. Sure, it is obvious when spelt out, but it is less obvious when it is a game of implications.
- keiferski 7y agoAgreed. It’s become a bit ridiculous when “but the game/movie/Netflix series showed that it can’t work” becomes an argument that is taken seriously.
- Apocryphon 7y agoPlenty of people defer to social parables like Atlas Shrugged or Animal Farm.
- cassandrersen 7y agowhat makes you think the united states doesn't regularly "experiment" on its population