3 ms·

If you want to tax pollution, tax fuel consumption or actual tailpipe emissions, not a broad class of vehicles. Which emits more -- a small family SUV or a BMW

If you want to tax pollution, tax fuel consumption or actual tailpipe emissions, not a broad class of vehicles. Which emits more -- a small family SUV or a BMW M3? Governments have taxed vehicles based on weight, width, engine displacement, etc. -- and the automakers adapt. It's very easy to game the system. Just tax vehicles on a model-by-model basis on the fuel they actually use, and on what they actually emit.

ossworkerrights 7y ago
Often you will notice that regulation in EU countries, and the EU itself, are not thought through. Indeed a BMW M3 and many small cars can emit more emissions than SUVs. But I suspect this is more of an eny tax, as in Europe SUVs are not that common and are considered "luxury", despite small cars shrinking to the point where there is not enough headroom on the backseat.
- imtringued 7y ago
  The tax is based on emissions. The Bloomberg article is just of a very low quality.
pjc50 7y ago
That's actually what's happening here, it's just that misleading (nationalist?) reporting has left that bit out. The tax is based on "administrative horsepower", calculated from engine power + CO2 emissions per mile. That is then looked up in a tax table. See my comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21862516 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21862516
dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
The headline is imprecise, the proposed law takes this into account.
- imtringued 7y ago
  The article only talks about SUV specific penalties which is wrong.
tangue 7y ago
That's what's being done, the tax is based on CO2 emissions [1]. And this tax is symbolic as the sales of cars exceeding 172g/km (the tax threshold) are only 1% ( 10 000 and 15 000 vehicles in France) of the cars sold each year [2]. Indeed most SUV won't be concerned (Even a fat and quite luxurious SUV like the Audi Q5 is under the threshold) , and based on what I read only affordable "sports" cars will be. Much ado about greenwashing. Tax rates 173g/km : 12.552€ 174g/km : 13.109€ 175g/km : 13.682€ 176g/km : 14.273€ 177g/km : 14.881€ 178g/km : 15.506€ 179g/km : 16.149€ 180g/km : 16.810€ 181g/km : 17.490€ 182g/km : 18.188€ 183g/km : 18.905€ 184g/km : 19.641€ 185g/km and more : 20.000€ [1]https://www.autoplus.fr/actualite/malus-CO2-plafond-taxe-bareme-1545039.html https://www.autoplus.fr/actualite/malus-CO2-plafond-taxe-bar... [2] https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/automobile/le-supermalus-touchera-entre-10000-et-15000-vehicules-par-an-1153068 https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/automobile/le-sup...
mariushn 7y ago
A good first step would be to stop all subsidies for fossil fuels. Taxing while subsidizing doesn't make sense. https://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/eu-countries-have-no-concrete-plans-to-phase-out-fossil-fuel-subsidies-report/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/eu...

ossworkerrights 7y ago

Often you will notice that regulation in EU countries, and the EU itself, are not thought through. Indeed a BMW M3 and many small cars can emit more emissions than SUVs. But I suspect this is more of an eny tax, as in Europe SUVs are not that common and are considered "luxury", despite small cars shrinking to the point where there is not enough headroom on the backseat.

imtringued 7y ago
The tax is based on emissions. The Bloomberg article is just of a very low quality.

pjc50 7y ago

That's actually what's happening here, it's just that misleading (nationalist?) reporting has left that bit out. The tax is based on "administrative horsepower", calculated from engine power + CO2 emissions per mile. That is then looked up in a tax table. See my comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21862516 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21862516

dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago

The headline is imprecise, the proposed law takes this into account.

imtringued 7y ago
The article only talks about SUV specific penalties which is wrong.

tangue 7y ago

That's what's being done, the tax is based on CO2 emissions [1]. And this tax is symbolic as the sales of cars exceeding 172g/km (the tax threshold) are only 1% ( 10 000 and 15 000 vehicles in France) of the cars sold each year [2]. Indeed most SUV won't be concerned (Even a fat and quite luxurious SUV like the Audi Q5 is under the threshold) , and based on what I read only affordable "sports" cars will be. Much ado about greenwashing. Tax rates 173g/km : 12.552€ 174g/km : 13.109€ 175g/km : 13.682€ 176g/km : 14.273€ 177g/km : 14.881€ 178g/km : 15.506€ 179g/km : 16.149€ 180g/km : 16.810€ 181g/km : 17.490€ 182g/km : 18.188€ 183g/km : 18.905€ 184g/km : 19.641€ 185g/km and more : 20.000€ [1]https://www.autoplus.fr/actualite/malus-CO2-plafond-taxe-bareme-1545039.html https://www.autoplus.fr/actualite/malus-CO2-plafond-taxe-bar... [2] https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/automobile/le-supermalus-touchera-entre-10000-et-15000-vehicules-par-an-1153068 https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/automobile/le-sup...

mariushn 7y ago

A good first step would be to stop all subsidies for fossil fuels. Taxing while subsidizing doesn't make sense. https://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/eu-countries-have-no-concrete-plans-to-phase-out-fossil-fuel-subsidies-report/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/eu...