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That means school was irrelevant. The evidence for transfer of learning is weak to the point of non-existence[1]. Even if transfer learning did exist that’s no

That means school was irrelevant. The evidence for transfer of learning is weak to the point of non-existence[1]. Even if transfer learning did exist that’s not the reason for school that any substantial portion of people believe in. If we look at the institutional history of school teaching nationalism is a much easier sell as to the purpose of school. [1] “Besides just plain forgetting, people commonly fail to marshal what they know effectively in situations outside the classroom or in other classes in different disciplines. The bridge from school to beyond or from this subject to that other is a bridge too far.” “Salomon, Gavriel, and David Perkins. 1989. “Rocky Roads to Transfer: Rethinking Mechanism of a Neglected Phenomenon.” Educational Psychologist 24 (2): 113–42.

etaioinshrdlu 7y ago
For those who don't know, transfer learning is a term from ML where you train a model on one task, then train it more on other tasks...
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  The keyword you’re looking for is “transfer of learning”, especially “far transfer.”
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  Sorry, meant transfer of learning, edited. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_learning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_learning > Today, transfer of learning is usually described as the process and the effective extent to which past experiences (also referred to as the transfer source) affect learning and performance in a new situation (the transfer target).[2] However, there remains controversy as to how transfer of learning should be conceptualized and explained, what its prevalence is, what its relation is to learning in general, and whether it exists at all.[3]
WilliamEdward 7y ago
> The evidence for transfer learning is weak to the point of non-existence. Citation needed. But transfer learning is a term specific to the ML field anyway, so I'm not sure why you used it. > teaching nationalism is a much easier sell as to the purpose of school I don't think most people believe this is the purpose of school, not even nationalists.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  Sorry, meant transfer of learning. Re: schooling as a means of promoting nationalism > Education and Military Rivalry > Using data from the last 150 years in a small set of countries, and from the postwar period in a large set of countries, we show that large investments in state primary education systems tend to occur when countries face military rivals or threats from their neighbors. By con- trast, we find that democratic transitions are negatively associated with education investments, while the presence of democratic politi- cal institutions magnifies the positive effect of military rivalries. These empirical results are robust to a number of statistical concerns and continue to hold when we instrument military rivalries with commod- ity prices or rivalries in a certain country’s immediate neighborhood. We also present historical case studies, as well as a simple model, that are consistent with the econometric evidence. https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/27759015/education_and_military_rivalry.pdf?sequence=1 https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/27759015/educati...
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    That paper is a decent description of how autocratic or militaristic governments invest in education, the purpose of a school is a separate meaning though. The paper itself states that threats to democracy increase enrolment and not funding, showing that parents or kids find value in applying to school even when it is not invested in. The paper goes on to note that expansion into studying economic threats as a motive for investment into schooling could be explored. The paper is too narrow to be a 'better sell' than transfer of learning, as dubious as that is.
- paganel 7y ago
  Nationalists most certainly believe that, for example every small change to our children’s history books that can be seen as not conforming to our glorious past (or what the nationalists see as our “glorious past”) is seen by our local nationalists (I live in a Eastern Europe) as potentially the end of the world as we know it. Europe can be interesting like that, good thing that we (almost) stopped killing each other after WW2 over stupid things like imaginary lines drawn on soil.
a-saleh 7y ago
I don't think we are talking about transfer. My mam had the concept of exercising zitsfleish, the ability to sit down and concentrate at a mentally taxing boring task for uncertain reward. This is a skill I use to this day, especially when debugging, and when I have a hard day, I remind myself that if I was able to solve 100 linear equations over christmass when I was 10, I should be able to find this bug!
- growlist 7y ago
  > the ability to sit down and concentrate at a mentally taxing boring task for uncertain reward If anything I'd say school hindered me in this regard! I think I learnt dogged persistence through playing videogames.
  - a-saleh 7y ago
    How did it hinder? Peergroup? Teachers? I have to admit, that I did mention my mum on purpose, for first two years she literally sat by my side to help me concentrate. Videogames either reqiured too good reaction time for me, or were too entertaining to need dogged persistence on my part :)

etaioinshrdlu 7y ago

For those who don't know, transfer learning is a term from ML where you train a model on one task, then train it more on other tasks...

SamReidHughes 7y ago
The keyword you’re looking for is “transfer of learning”, especially “far transfer.”
barry-cotter 7y ago
Sorry, meant transfer of learning, edited. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_learning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_learning > Today, transfer of learning is usually described as the process and the effective extent to which past experiences (also referred to as the transfer source) affect learning and performance in a new situation (the transfer target).[2] However, there remains controversy as to how transfer of learning should be conceptualized and explained, what its prevalence is, what its relation is to learning in general, and whether it exists at all.[3]

WilliamEdward 7y ago

> The evidence for transfer learning is weak to the point of non-existence. Citation needed. But transfer learning is a term specific to the ML field anyway, so I'm not sure why you used it. > teaching nationalism is a much easier sell as to the purpose of school I don't think most people believe this is the purpose of school, not even nationalists.

barry-cotter 7y ago
Sorry, meant transfer of learning. Re: schooling as a means of promoting nationalism > Education and Military Rivalry > Using data from the last 150 years in a small set of countries, and from the postwar period in a large set of countries, we show that large investments in state primary education systems tend to occur when countries face military rivals or threats from their neighbors. By con- trast, we find that democratic transitions are negatively associated with education investments, while the presence of democratic politi- cal institutions magnifies the positive effect of military rivalries. These empirical results are robust to a number of statistical concerns and continue to hold when we instrument military rivalries with commod- ity prices or rivalries in a certain country’s immediate neighborhood. We also present historical case studies, as well as a simple model, that are consistent with the econometric evidence. https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/27759015/education_and_military_rivalry.pdf?sequence=1 https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/27759015/educati...
- friendlybus 7y ago
  That paper is a decent description of how autocratic or militaristic governments invest in education, the purpose of a school is a separate meaning though. The paper itself states that threats to democracy increase enrolment and not funding, showing that parents or kids find value in applying to school even when it is not invested in. The paper goes on to note that expansion into studying economic threats as a motive for investment into schooling could be explored. The paper is too narrow to be a 'better sell' than transfer of learning, as dubious as that is.
paganel 7y ago
Nationalists most certainly believe that, for example every small change to our children’s history books that can be seen as not conforming to our glorious past (or what the nationalists see as our “glorious past”) is seen by our local nationalists (I live in a Eastern Europe) as potentially the end of the world as we know it. Europe can be interesting like that, good thing that we (almost) stopped killing each other after WW2 over stupid things like imaginary lines drawn on soil.

a-saleh 7y ago

I don't think we are talking about transfer. My mam had the concept of exercising zitsfleish, the ability to sit down and concentrate at a mentally taxing boring task for uncertain reward. This is a skill I use to this day, especially when debugging, and when I have a hard day, I remind myself that if I was able to solve 100 linear equations over christmass when I was 10, I should be able to find this bug!

growlist 7y ago
> the ability to sit down and concentrate at a mentally taxing boring task for uncertain reward If anything I'd say school hindered me in this regard! I think I learnt dogged persistence through playing videogames.
- a-saleh 7y ago
  How did it hinder? Peergroup? Teachers? I have to admit, that I did mention my mum on purpose, for first two years she literally sat by my side to help me concentrate. Videogames either reqiured too good reaction time for me, or were too entertaining to need dogged persistence on my part :)