3 ms·

I don't know about this specific case, but I can give you examples in other companies. Some of them were things I lived through "thanks" to a former boss of min

by Yoric 7y ago

I don't know about this specific case, but I can give you examples in other companies. Some of them were things I lived through "thanks" to a former boss of mine who's still lurking on HN so hello, former boss. 1. Move someone's desk to (sometimes literally, sometimes figuratively) a closet: a place where they don't see anyone. 2. Set someone to watch them. Make sure that they can't speak to anyone during the day. Make sure that they are always at their desk. If they're not, for any reason, make sure to blame them. 3. Repeat them three times per day that they are doing a piss-poor job. 4. But also make sure that they have nothing to do. Make-believe job at best, but it must be clear to them that it's make-believe job. Once they have produced their deliverables, ignore these entirely. 5. Set them up to fail. Give them impossible deadlines. Change the goalposts. Give them a title and responsibilities that looks like they have entire teams working for them but never fill the teams. 6. Force you to write daily reports of activities when everybody else is on weekly/monthly/quarterly/... basis. 7. But also repeat to them that they're not working sufficiently. Make it clear to them that it's their fault. etc.

privateSFacct 7y ago
Can I ask briefly what kept you spending such a significant portion of your day working for such an employer? Is this is in the US or somewhere else where maybe there is a forced work period? In the US at least your employer generally cannot force you to keep working for them but I know other places in the mideast etc they can.
- vertex-four 7y ago
  Finding another job is not easy for many people. I've been looking for work (not in France) for years - even getting an interview is difficult, and I have very poor interview skills (autism spectrum disorder makes it particularly hard to learn how to interview) so I don't get anywhere. Not everyone is in a market where companies are desperate for warm bodies.
- BrandoElFollito 7y ago
  The point is I think that the management want you to quit but cannot (or do not want) to do this themselves. They harass you until you give up.
- Yoric 7y ago
  This was in France. Well, there were several factors. 1. It took me time to realize that this was going on. 2. My boss basically wanted to get rid of me because I had done my job too well and everybody knew it. I had taken over some of his previous responsibilities and where he had led the company's flagship project pretty close to the grave, I led the team that turned his failure into success. Problem is, he wanted his name to be the one on the top of the poster. By then, getting me to leave was paramount to asking me to abandon my baby. So yeah, it took me some time to come to terms with this. 3. Generally speaking, in France, there's a notion of "job loyalty" which is very different from anything I've seen in UK/US/Canada. I've elaborated more on the topic over there https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21856307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21856307 4. Benefits are very different if you quit or if you're laid off/fired. If you quit, there were no benefits at all at the time (laws have changed since then, I believe). My boss was clearly trying to fire me without benefits. I did not enjoy this prospect. 5. Also, finding a new job takes more time in France than, say, in the US. It's both an economical thing and a cultural thing – interview periods are longer, for instance. edit Rephrased point 2.
  - discreteevent 7y ago
    You might find Yoric's comment above hard to believe but actually it's not uncommon. If you work in enough places over time you will come across this behavior. There are two kinds of people. Those who achieve success in life by getting better at getting things done (and as a side effect, often having authority over others). Those who succeed by gaining power over others without necessarily getting anything done. In fact often they are incompetent when it comes to getting things done but highly competent at the worst kind of politics. Usually the only people who can deal with the politicians are those above them. These people thrive where the top is weak. It's not hard to deal with them. The first sign is dishonesty. The way to spot this is to frequently do a deep dive. Go down to the people at the lower level and investigate why things went wrong (they always go wrong under these people) If not these people will destroy that part of your business and drive out the competent people. Of course this is why honesty in national politics is also so important. But in this case it is the people who need to drive these types out.
  - denni9th 7y ago
blondin 7y ago
wow! those aren't tech companies, are they?
- Yoric 7y ago
  The cases I know of (including mine) were mostly in tech companies.
kdeldycke 7y ago
Thanks @Yoric for speaking out. I suffered from a similar situation early in my career as a developer, and it was far from pleasant. This happened in a very early stage, self-founded startup in France (was the third person to join). Took me time to realize the situation was really bad and unescapable: I was young and lacking experience. To employees: don't wait to be fired or to reach your breaking point. You're on the way to serious burnout. There is something out there called the market that is redistributing talents. So get out. To managers: don’t be that boss.

by Yoric 7y ago

privateSFacct 7y ago

Can I ask briefly what kept you spending such a significant portion of your day working for such an employer? Is this is in the US or somewhere else where maybe there is a forced work period? In the US at least your employer generally cannot force you to keep working for them but I know other places in the mideast etc they can.

vertex-four 7y ago
Finding another job is not easy for many people. I've been looking for work (not in France) for years - even getting an interview is difficult, and I have very poor interview skills (autism spectrum disorder makes it particularly hard to learn how to interview) so I don't get anywhere. Not everyone is in a market where companies are desperate for warm bodies.
BrandoElFollito 7y ago
The point is I think that the management want you to quit but cannot (or do not want) to do this themselves. They harass you until you give up.
Yoric 7y ago
This was in France. Well, there were several factors. 1. It took me time to realize that this was going on. 2. My boss basically wanted to get rid of me because I had done my job too well and everybody knew it. I had taken over some of his previous responsibilities and where he had led the company's flagship project pretty close to the grave, I led the team that turned his failure into success. Problem is, he wanted his name to be the one on the top of the poster. By then, getting me to leave was paramount to asking me to abandon my baby. So yeah, it took me some time to come to terms with this. 3. Generally speaking, in France, there's a notion of "job loyalty" which is very different from anything I've seen in UK/US/Canada. I've elaborated more on the topic over there https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21856307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21856307 4. Benefits are very different if you quit or if you're laid off/fired. If you quit, there were no benefits at all at the time (laws have changed since then, I believe). My boss was clearly trying to fire me without benefits. I did not enjoy this prospect. 5. Also, finding a new job takes more time in France than, say, in the US. It's both an economical thing and a cultural thing – interview periods are longer, for instance. edit Rephrased point 2.
- discreteevent 7y ago
  You might find Yoric's comment above hard to believe but actually it's not uncommon. If you work in enough places over time you will come across this behavior. There are two kinds of people. Those who achieve success in life by getting better at getting things done (and as a side effect, often having authority over others). Those who succeed by gaining power over others without necessarily getting anything done. In fact often they are incompetent when it comes to getting things done but highly competent at the worst kind of politics. Usually the only people who can deal with the politicians are those above them. These people thrive where the top is weak. It's not hard to deal with them. The first sign is dishonesty. The way to spot this is to frequently do a deep dive. Go down to the people at the lower level and investigate why things went wrong (they always go wrong under these people) If not these people will destroy that part of your business and drive out the competent people. Of course this is why honesty in national politics is also so important. But in this case it is the people who need to drive these types out.
- denni9th 7y ago

blondin 7y ago

wow! those aren't tech companies, are they?

Yoric 7y ago
The cases I know of (including mine) were mostly in tech companies.

kdeldycke 7y ago

Thanks @Yoric for speaking out. I suffered from a similar situation early in my career as a developer, and it was far from pleasant. This happened in a very early stage, self-founded startup in France (was the third person to join). Took me time to realize the situation was really bad and unescapable: I was young and lacking experience. To employees: don't wait to be fired or to reach your breaking point. You're on the way to serious burnout. There is something out there called the market that is redistributing talents. So get out. To managers: don’t be that boss.