11 ms·

CDC Confirms a THC Additive, Vitamin E Acetate, Is Culprit in Most Vaping Deaths

244 points by harmmonica 7y ago

dangus 7y ago
> A health-surveillance system put in place after the terrorist attacks of September 2001 has been used to pinpoint the cause of the... That’s the interesting part of the article.
- capableweb 7y ago
  More: > It was important to understand the timing of the outbreak as part of this investigation. Health officials wanted to know when exactly the problems first cropped up, and whether they had missed many cases before those initial reports. That's why they turned to the surveillance data, collected from more than 3,200 emergency rooms from most states. >They found a gradual increase in emergency-room visits among people who vaped or used e-cigarettes, starting in January of 2017. > The surveillance system doesn't automatically flag health concerns – often scientists dive into the data once their suspicion is raised, as it was in this case. The outbreak only became apparent in the data once researchers defined more closely what they were looking for and focused on one age group.
  - nerdponx 7y ago
    > The surveillance system doesn't automatically flag health concerns – often scientists dive into the data once their suspicion is raised, as it was in this case. The outbreak only became apparent in the data once researchers defined more closely what they were looking for and focused on one age group. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some kind of outlier detection method that could automatically flag a sudden increase in unusual cases.
    - prepend 7y ago
      The web site has a lot of papers talking about that. They do detect spikes in defined syndromes. But for stuff like this that isn’t a defined syndrome and isn’t really captured well at the hospital it’s not an outlier until scientists do a lot of analysis.
      - AmericanChopper 7y ago
        The ETL for 3200 emergency rooms worth of data must be a nightmare. It would have to be largely unstructured upon ingestion, and I can’t imagine normalising it enough for this sort of automated outlier detection would be possible.
        prepend 7y ago
        The guide [0] shows like 20 defined fields and then free text notes. It would be cool, but seems kind of impossible to tell a significant outlier (vape lung) from an insignificant outlier (misspelling). The way the article describes it, epidemiologists define a new condition (vape lung) and then look for that. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nssp/documents/guides/syndrsurvmessagguide2_messagingguide_phn.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nssp/documents/guides/syndrsurvmessaggui...
- icegreentea2 7y ago
  The program in question: https://www.cdc.gov/nssp/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/nssp/index.html
catalogia 7y ago
Vitamin E Acetate may be the cause of the fatalities, but that's not the full extent of the problem. Lack of testing or fraudulent testing for pesticides seems to be a serious issue as well: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/01/07/37770867/why-every-washington-pot-smoker-should-be-worried-about-californias-weed-recall https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/01/07/37770867/why-eve... Beyond pesticides, I'm also generally skeptical of some of the solvents used for extraction. Supercritical CO2 extraction should be perfectly fine, but apparently not every brand is using that.
- meowface 7y ago
  I stopped all use of cannabis vape pens after reading a study that found lead often leaches into the oil cartridge over time (I believe from the pen and/or the metal contact on the cartridge). I imagine there could be other risks, as well. Vaping is definitely safer if implemented ideally, but it looks like the ultra-portable solutions are mostly still pretty sketchy.
  - steve19 7y ago
    I don't vape or use cannabis so am ignorant. In what way is lead used? I would have thought that a metal with a low melting point out not be found near a heating element.
    - jdsully 7y ago
      Lead still doesn’t melt that easily. 470 celcius is really hot. You might be thinking of solder which is easily melted by resistive heating. But that is because its alloyed with Tin and the combination has a much lower melting point than either metals.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - thatcat 7y ago
        Lead can chemically dissolve in acidic solutions
DenisM 7y ago
In case you wondered where "Vitamin E Acetate" comes from: > Further research focused on vitamin E acetate, which is used in some of these preparations to dilute the much more expensive THC oil.
- ianai 7y ago
  Further, it’s synthetic. I don’t think it exists in any food sources naturally. Probably shouldn’t be in lung tissue: “vitamin E acetate, is a synthetic form of vitamin E. It is the ester of acetic acid and α-tocopherol” (Wikipedia)
  - gewa 7y ago
    Yes, but the ester will probably only affect the hydrophobicity and will be hydrolised at some point. I wouldn't expect vast differences in specifity.
  - TTPrograms 7y ago
    I'm not sure the addition of white vinegar should be of any particular concern... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2903/j.efsa.2016.4412 https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2903/j.efsa.... - "The substance readily hydrolyses" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_pneumonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_pneumonia
    - heavyset_go 7y ago
      Food safe doesn't mean its aerosol or combustion products are safe to inhale.
- pyrophane 7y ago
  It seems like there is probably a long history of these cutting agents being extremely toxic. I suppose it makes perfect sense. The person who takes the risk to sell you something illegal doesn't really care about your health.
martinald 7y ago
Really, the WHO and other governmental health authorities should be throwing _billions_ of dollars at making vaping effective and safe. The RoI is absolutely insane - even if 10k people switch to a well researched alternative to tobacco and avoid serious health implications (probably costing $1million per person at a minimum in the US healthcare system), that's $10bn saved. You multiply that by around a billion worldwide smokers and the public health benefits are absolutely crazy. Probably on the order of tens of trillions of dollars, maybe even a quadrillion dollars over the next century.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bsder 7y ago
  > The RoI is absolutely insane - even if 10k people switch to a well researched alternative to tobacco and avoid serious health implications The problem is that vaping is converting non-smokers into vapers. That's a really BAD ROI. Estimates are now as high as 25% of high schoolers vape and has snagged more women than cigarettes would have. That's undone 20+ years of anti-smoking efforts. So, yeah, public health officials are really pissed off. Yes, vaping is a good replacement for smoking. It's not a good replacement for not smoking, however.
  - quotemstr 7y ago
    Tobacco isn't harmful because it contains nicotine. There's evidence that nicotine is good for you: it improves concentration [1] and reduces BMI [2]. Vaping gives people nicotine without the harmful substances in burning tobacco. Why should we bucket vaping with smoking? Hell, given the state of public health generally, maybe we should be encouraging people to vape. [1] https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20021023/harnessing-nicotines-power https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20021023/harnes... [2] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/06/why-smokers-are-skinny https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/06/why-smokers-are-skin...
    - washadjeffmad 7y ago
jcampbell1 7y ago
Given the scale, a Mexican cartel was almost certainly the source of the bad carts. It just makes sense that someone there ordered a few barrels of vitamin e acetate from China and the problem appeared suddenly across the US but not in Canada and much less in states with legal carts.
- akjetma 7y ago
  oh fuck off
- resfirestar 7y ago
  One of the most popular vitamin E acetate based additives was developed and sold by an American former small time actor who apparently used his marketing skills to become a force in the illegal vape market. https://www.leafly.com/news/health/toxic-vaping-vapi-evali-lung-injury-rise-and-fall-of-vitamin-e-oil-honey-cut https://www.leafly.com/news/health/toxic-vaping-vapi-evali-l...
- MiroF 7y ago
  You'd be surprised the extent of the domestic illicit pot industry. Cartels don't have to be involved even in large scale production and distribution and often aren't
- bitxbitxbitcoin 7y ago
  What makes you so sure? The economics of any cartel filling vape cartridges and then smuggling them across the US/Mexico border is laughable.
  - Godel_unicode 7y ago
    Why would it being a Mexican cartel necessitate manufacturing in Mexico?
    - bitxbitxbitcoin 7y ago
      A valid point.
droithomme 7y ago
Obviously then ban Vitamin E, just as these imbeciles once banned Tryptophan and Ephedra.
- wahern 7y ago
  You can buy ephedra in supplements, and ephedrine over the counter as Primatene or Bronkaid. Primatene is the perfect cold remedy--ephedrine to clear your nasal passages and guaifenesin to loosen mucus. Bonus that ephedrine gives you some zip, especially if you're in the minority of people whose viral-induced sneezing and runny nose is responsive to OTC antihistamines, which can sometimes make you drowsy (not as much of an issue for me since cetirizine went generic). Warning: both ephedrine and guaifenesin increase blood pressure, so take care if that might be of concern.
  - mkagenius 7y ago
    > not as much of an issue for me since cetirizine went generic Yes, fexofenadine is great (for me at least)
perl4ever 7y ago
I expect the other 90% of the iceberg is food and prescription drugs. This is like how people gossiped about Boeing management for years before the 737-MAX finally demonstrated the consequences. Or how people have smothered their doubts about the President because the market has been going up.
macinjosh 7y ago
Vitamin E Acetate is not a THC additive. Sure, someone sketchy in the blackmarket added it to their product but its not a thing normal people using THC do intentionally. The cause behind recent fear mongering over vaping is pure and simple. Some jurisdictions have become dependent on the revenue from the vice tax on tobacco and have seen vaping slashing their income more and more each year. Vaping must be made out to be dangerous so there is an excuse to tax and regulate it just like tobacco.
- nrp 7y ago
  People dying from toxic cutting agents that managed to get distributed pretty broadly across the US seems like a pretty good reason on its own to regulate it like tobacco is. Added “sin tax” revenue is just icing on the cake.
  - macinjosh 7y ago
    The people using the cutting agents were sellers on the blackmarket. Do you really think they're going to collect and pay sin tax and follow regulations? This whole episode had nothing to do with the legal sale of THC products.
    - nrp 7y ago
      Actually, it seems some adulterated products made it into the legal market, which seems to indicate insufficient control and inspection along the supply chain: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1097011 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1097011 In any case, reasonable regulations are already going into place in states where THC products are legal: https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2019/12/12/thc-vape-massachusetts-ban-over/ https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2019/12/12/thc-vape-mass... The availability of known-safe, conveniently-available, regulated alternatives tends to erode black markets pretty successfully. See alcohol or Spotify as examples.
      - fingerlocks 7y ago
        This isn’t the best refutation. In your first link, 80% of cases were confirmed black-market. The remaining were self-reported by users that would not name the dispensary or brand name of the product. Then from your second link regarding new regulations: ...the CCC said it has not seen evidence that anyone stricken with the mysterious and in some cases deadly lung condition bought their vape products from a licensed pot shop or medical dispensary. They are instead believed to have been sourced from the black market.
MiroF 7y ago
Mods- could we edit the title? Vitamin E is not a "THC additive"
- bitxbitxbitcoin 7y ago
  It's a vape juice additive and this problem only arose because of the prohibition.
  - heavyset_go 7y ago
    Depends on where marijuana products end up on the regulatory spectrum. Vitamin E acetate is added to thicken the THC + solvent solution, because to users, a thicker solution appears to mean that the THC is less diluted than it actually is. If marijuana products are regulated like supplements are today, there's really no reason why less than scrupulous vape cartridge manufacturers wouldn't do exactly what they're doing today. There's no regulatory oversight when it comes to supplements.
  - jachee 7y ago
    It's a black-market additive to make their watered down product appear genuine.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    It’s an THC product additive, that’s not used in non-THC vape juices. The title is perfectly accurate, even if it could be a little more verbose. I know a lot of commenters here have a vested political interest in promoting marijuana and its derivative products as safe, but you can’t change the facts because of that.
    - MiroF 7y ago
      I believe the CDC also found it in illicit nicotine cartridges
      - AmericanChopper 7y ago
jokesnotfunny 7y ago
I am curious, how it wasn't already known to people working at these vape manufacturing companies?
- Clubber 7y ago
  These, I suspect were most likely made in some guy's kitchen.
- sjnair96 7y ago
  Vitamin E dilutions have only found in blackmarket THC vapes. There's simply no need for legitimate vendors to dilute product with vit E Acetate. THC Distillate which is the base for most THC cartridges is made from any and all cannabis biomass or 'leftovers' from other processes. Since it's a highly pure (~94%) extraction, in terms of cannabis extracts, there is no worry about the starting products' quality/looks/smell as is the case with most cannabis products. All this results in this high-purity substance being much cheaper, and very high value for the customer. The legitimate cannabis industry has dabbled with other diluents though (such as PG/PEG/VG and most commonly terpenes), mostly to help the very viscous THC distillate work with the cartridge hardware. However, nowadays, cartridge technology has improved so much that it is possible to use very viscous THC distillate in most cartridges. These legit vendors have known about various issues related to health concerns, due to health-savvy cannabis users. PG/PEG/VG are almost completely phased out for terpenes, which are currently seen as the better alternative (compared to PG/PEG/VG, not that it's safe). I've never come across legal cannabis vendors discussing Vitamin E as a dilutant in my research.
- stjohnswarts 7y ago
  Because this is blackmarket stuff, although I imagine contingent of otherwise legal home vape assembly people could in their ignorance get their hands on some off a friend and have the same issue. The big deal here is that some states are completely losing their mind and trying to completely stop or over regulate vaping, no doubt resulting in many more deaths as a result of former smokers going back to smoking and now they have blood on their hands because of it because it's obviously happening only in people who use vaping to get a THC high, which is already illegal and regulated and they really didn't care.
rolltiide 7y ago
So how fast does this happen? Taking a hit from a friends vape of unknown origin and substance still cool? Or is that insta KO
- stjohnswarts 7y ago
  don't do it if people are trying to vape THC or just black market pods. Just get your own and do it legally or simply tell them nope and pass on the hit.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stjohnswarts 7y ago
The british have a perfectly sane and working way of handling vaping products and e-cigarettes, the USA could easily copy them in how it's regulated. The USA is just too damn proud to ever copy something another country is doing, even if it's vastly superior to what we're doing currently.

244 points by harmmonica 7y ago

> A health-surveillance system put in place after the terrorist attacks of September 2001 has been used to pinpoint the cause of the... That’s the interesting part of the article.

capableweb 7y ago
More: > It was important to understand the timing of the outbreak as part of this investigation. Health officials wanted to know when exactly the problems first cropped up, and whether they had missed many cases before those initial reports. That's why they turned to the surveillance data, collected from more than 3,200 emergency rooms from most states. >They found a gradual increase in emergency-room visits among people who vaped or used e-cigarettes, starting in January of 2017. > The surveillance system doesn't automatically flag health concerns – often scientists dive into the data once their suspicion is raised, as it was in this case. The outbreak only became apparent in the data once researchers defined more closely what they were looking for and focused on one age group.
- nerdponx 7y ago
  > The surveillance system doesn't automatically flag health concerns – often scientists dive into the data once their suspicion is raised, as it was in this case. The outbreak only became apparent in the data once researchers defined more closely what they were looking for and focused on one age group. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some kind of outlier detection method that could automatically flag a sudden increase in unusual cases.
  - prepend 7y ago
    The web site has a lot of papers talking about that. They do detect spikes in defined syndromes. But for stuff like this that isn’t a defined syndrome and isn’t really captured well at the hospital it’s not an outlier until scientists do a lot of analysis.
    - AmericanChopper 7y ago
      The ETL for 3200 emergency rooms worth of data must be a nightmare. It would have to be largely unstructured upon ingestion, and I can’t imagine normalising it enough for this sort of automated outlier detection would be possible.
      - prepend 7y ago
        The guide [0] shows like 20 defined fields and then free text notes. It would be cool, but seems kind of impossible to tell a significant outlier (vape lung) from an insignificant outlier (misspelling). The way the article describes it, epidemiologists define a new condition (vape lung) and then look for that. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nssp/documents/guides/syndrsurvmessagguide2_messagingguide_phn.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nssp/documents/guides/syndrsurvmessaggui...
icegreentea2 7y ago
The program in question: https://www.cdc.gov/nssp/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/nssp/index.html

catalogia 7y ago

Vitamin E Acetate may be the cause of the fatalities, but that's not the full extent of the problem. Lack of testing or fraudulent testing for pesticides seems to be a serious issue as well: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/01/07/37770867/why-every-washington-pot-smoker-should-be-worried-about-californias-weed-recall https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/01/07/37770867/why-eve... Beyond pesticides, I'm also generally skeptical of some of the solvents used for extraction. Supercritical CO2 extraction should be perfectly fine, but apparently not every brand is using that.

meowface 7y ago
I stopped all use of cannabis vape pens after reading a study that found lead often leaches into the oil cartridge over time (I believe from the pen and/or the metal contact on the cartridge). I imagine there could be other risks, as well. Vaping is definitely safer if implemented ideally, but it looks like the ultra-portable solutions are mostly still pretty sketchy.
- steve19 7y ago
  I don't vape or use cannabis so am ignorant. In what way is lead used? I would have thought that a metal with a low melting point out not be found near a heating element.
  - jdsully 7y ago
    Lead still doesn’t melt that easily. 470 celcius is really hot. You might be thinking of solder which is easily melted by resistive heating. But that is because its alloyed with Tin and the combination has a much lower melting point than either metals.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - thatcat 7y ago
      Lead can chemically dissolve in acidic solutions

DenisM 7y ago

In case you wondered where "Vitamin E Acetate" comes from: > Further research focused on vitamin E acetate, which is used in some of these preparations to dilute the much more expensive THC oil.

ianai 7y ago
Further, it’s synthetic. I don’t think it exists in any food sources naturally. Probably shouldn’t be in lung tissue: “vitamin E acetate, is a synthetic form of vitamin E. It is the ester of acetic acid and α-tocopherol” (Wikipedia)
- gewa 7y ago
  Yes, but the ester will probably only affect the hydrophobicity and will be hydrolised at some point. I wouldn't expect vast differences in specifity.
- TTPrograms 7y ago
  I'm not sure the addition of white vinegar should be of any particular concern... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2903/j.efsa.2016.4412 https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2903/j.efsa.... - "The substance readily hydrolyses" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_pneumonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_pneumonia
  - heavyset_go 7y ago
    Food safe doesn't mean its aerosol or combustion products are safe to inhale.
pyrophane 7y ago
It seems like there is probably a long history of these cutting agents being extremely toxic. I suppose it makes perfect sense. The person who takes the risk to sell you something illegal doesn't really care about your health.

martinald 7y ago

Really, the WHO and other governmental health authorities should be throwing _billions_ of dollars at making vaping effective and safe. The RoI is absolutely insane - even if 10k people switch to a well researched alternative to tobacco and avoid serious health implications (probably costing $1million per person at a minimum in the US healthcare system), that's $10bn saved. You multiply that by around a billion worldwide smokers and the public health benefits are absolutely crazy. Probably on the order of tens of trillions of dollars, maybe even a quadrillion dollars over the next century.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bsder 7y ago
> The RoI is absolutely insane - even if 10k people switch to a well researched alternative to tobacco and avoid serious health implications The problem is that vaping is converting non-smokers into vapers. That's a really BAD ROI. Estimates are now as high as 25% of high schoolers vape and has snagged more women than cigarettes would have. That's undone 20+ years of anti-smoking efforts. So, yeah, public health officials are really pissed off. Yes, vaping is a good replacement for smoking. It's not a good replacement for not smoking, however.
- quotemstr 7y ago
  Tobacco isn't harmful because it contains nicotine. There's evidence that nicotine is good for you: it improves concentration [1] and reduces BMI [2]. Vaping gives people nicotine without the harmful substances in burning tobacco. Why should we bucket vaping with smoking? Hell, given the state of public health generally, maybe we should be encouraging people to vape. [1] https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20021023/harnessing-nicotines-power https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20021023/harnes... [2] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/06/why-smokers-are-skinny https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/06/why-smokers-are-skin...
  - washadjeffmad 7y ago

jcampbell1 7y ago

Given the scale, a Mexican cartel was almost certainly the source of the bad carts. It just makes sense that someone there ordered a few barrels of vitamin e acetate from China and the problem appeared suddenly across the US but not in Canada and much less in states with legal carts.

akjetma 7y ago
oh fuck off
resfirestar 7y ago
One of the most popular vitamin E acetate based additives was developed and sold by an American former small time actor who apparently used his marketing skills to become a force in the illegal vape market. https://www.leafly.com/news/health/toxic-vaping-vapi-evali-lung-injury-rise-and-fall-of-vitamin-e-oil-honey-cut https://www.leafly.com/news/health/toxic-vaping-vapi-evali-l...
MiroF 7y ago
You'd be surprised the extent of the domestic illicit pot industry. Cartels don't have to be involved even in large scale production and distribution and often aren't
bitxbitxbitcoin 7y ago
What makes you so sure? The economics of any cartel filling vape cartridges and then smuggling them across the US/Mexico border is laughable.
- Godel_unicode 7y ago
  Why would it being a Mexican cartel necessitate manufacturing in Mexico?
  - bitxbitxbitcoin 7y ago
    A valid point.

droithomme 7y ago

Obviously then ban Vitamin E, just as these imbeciles once banned Tryptophan and Ephedra.

wahern 7y ago
You can buy ephedra in supplements, and ephedrine over the counter as Primatene or Bronkaid. Primatene is the perfect cold remedy--ephedrine to clear your nasal passages and guaifenesin to loosen mucus. Bonus that ephedrine gives you some zip, especially if you're in the minority of people whose viral-induced sneezing and runny nose is responsive to OTC antihistamines, which can sometimes make you drowsy (not as much of an issue for me since cetirizine went generic). Warning: both ephedrine and guaifenesin increase blood pressure, so take care if that might be of concern.
- mkagenius 7y ago
  > not as much of an issue for me since cetirizine went generic Yes, fexofenadine is great (for me at least)

perl4ever 7y ago

I expect the other 90% of the iceberg is food and prescription drugs. This is like how people gossiped about Boeing management for years before the 737-MAX finally demonstrated the consequences. Or how people have smothered their doubts about the President because the market has been going up.

macinjosh 7y ago

Vitamin E Acetate is not a THC additive. Sure, someone sketchy in the blackmarket added it to their product but its not a thing normal people using THC do intentionally. The cause behind recent fear mongering over vaping is pure and simple. Some jurisdictions have become dependent on the revenue from the vice tax on tobacco and have seen vaping slashing their income more and more each year. Vaping must be made out to be dangerous so there is an excuse to tax and regulate it just like tobacco.

nrp 7y ago
People dying from toxic cutting agents that managed to get distributed pretty broadly across the US seems like a pretty good reason on its own to regulate it like tobacco is. Added “sin tax” revenue is just icing on the cake.
- macinjosh 7y ago
  The people using the cutting agents were sellers on the blackmarket. Do you really think they're going to collect and pay sin tax and follow regulations? This whole episode had nothing to do with the legal sale of THC products.
  - nrp 7y ago
    Actually, it seems some adulterated products made it into the legal market, which seems to indicate insufficient control and inspection along the supply chain: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1097011 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1097011 In any case, reasonable regulations are already going into place in states where THC products are legal: https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2019/12/12/thc-vape-massachusetts-ban-over/ https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2019/12/12/thc-vape-mass... The availability of known-safe, conveniently-available, regulated alternatives tends to erode black markets pretty successfully. See alcohol or Spotify as examples.
    - fingerlocks 7y ago
      This isn’t the best refutation. In your first link, 80% of cases were confirmed black-market. The remaining were self-reported by users that would not name the dispensary or brand name of the product. Then from your second link regarding new regulations: ...the CCC said it has not seen evidence that anyone stricken with the mysterious and in some cases deadly lung condition bought their vape products from a licensed pot shop or medical dispensary. They are instead believed to have been sourced from the black market.

MiroF 7y ago

Mods- could we edit the title? Vitamin E is not a "THC additive"

bitxbitxbitcoin 7y ago
It's a vape juice additive and this problem only arose because of the prohibition.
- heavyset_go 7y ago
  Depends on where marijuana products end up on the regulatory spectrum. Vitamin E acetate is added to thicken the THC + solvent solution, because to users, a thicker solution appears to mean that the THC is less diluted than it actually is. If marijuana products are regulated like supplements are today, there's really no reason why less than scrupulous vape cartridge manufacturers wouldn't do exactly what they're doing today. There's no regulatory oversight when it comes to supplements.
- jachee 7y ago
  It's a black-market additive to make their watered down product appear genuine.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  It’s an THC product additive, that’s not used in non-THC vape juices. The title is perfectly accurate, even if it could be a little more verbose. I know a lot of commenters here have a vested political interest in promoting marijuana and its derivative products as safe, but you can’t change the facts because of that.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    I believe the CDC also found it in illicit nicotine cartridges
    - AmericanChopper 7y ago

jokesnotfunny 7y ago

I am curious, how it wasn't already known to people working at these vape manufacturing companies?

Clubber 7y ago
These, I suspect were most likely made in some guy's kitchen.
sjnair96 7y ago
Vitamin E dilutions have only found in blackmarket THC vapes. There's simply no need for legitimate vendors to dilute product with vit E Acetate. THC Distillate which is the base for most THC cartridges is made from any and all cannabis biomass or 'leftovers' from other processes. Since it's a highly pure (~94%) extraction, in terms of cannabis extracts, there is no worry about the starting products' quality/looks/smell as is the case with most cannabis products. All this results in this high-purity substance being much cheaper, and very high value for the customer. The legitimate cannabis industry has dabbled with other diluents though (such as PG/PEG/VG and most commonly terpenes), mostly to help the very viscous THC distillate work with the cartridge hardware. However, nowadays, cartridge technology has improved so much that it is possible to use very viscous THC distillate in most cartridges. These legit vendors have known about various issues related to health concerns, due to health-savvy cannabis users. PG/PEG/VG are almost completely phased out for terpenes, which are currently seen as the better alternative (compared to PG/PEG/VG, not that it's safe). I've never come across legal cannabis vendors discussing Vitamin E as a dilutant in my research.
stjohnswarts 7y ago
Because this is blackmarket stuff, although I imagine contingent of otherwise legal home vape assembly people could in their ignorance get their hands on some off a friend and have the same issue. The big deal here is that some states are completely losing their mind and trying to completely stop or over regulate vaping, no doubt resulting in many more deaths as a result of former smokers going back to smoking and now they have blood on their hands because of it because it's obviously happening only in people who use vaping to get a THC high, which is already illegal and regulated and they really didn't care.

rolltiide 7y ago

So how fast does this happen? Taking a hit from a friends vape of unknown origin and substance still cool? Or is that insta KO

stjohnswarts 7y ago
don't do it if people are trying to vape THC or just black market pods. Just get your own and do it legally or simply tell them nope and pass on the hit.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

stjohnswarts 7y ago

The british have a perfectly sane and working way of handling vaping products and e-cigarettes, the USA could easily copy them in how it's regulated. The USA is just too damn proud to ever copy something another country is doing, even if it's vastly superior to what we're doing currently.