8 ms·

You Suck at Excel (2015) [video]

228 points by kristianp 7y ago

TAForObvReasons 7y ago
Submitted many times, the most active discussion was in 2016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12448545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12448545
- eindiran 7y ago
  In the 2016 discussion, the link to the Martin Shkreli video is down. These are some of the videos in that series where you can see him use Excel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fASInVKShnM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fASInVKShnM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poyf3Cnb-MQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poyf3Cnb-MQ
  - giarc 7y ago
    The fact that there is a world champion Excel user tells me I suck at excel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SysRS3lZm98&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SysRS3lZm98&feature=emb_logo
emj 7y ago
That video really helped me to understand the horror that is Excel, but why fight it instead create a linter for Excel: https://github.com/plasma-umass/ExceLint-addin https://github.com/plasma-umass/ExceLint-addin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEwUA0h2dsw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEwUA0h2dsw It is telling how complicated that linter is.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
notyourgrandma 7y ago
Such a classic, and great to give to first-year analysts
enitihas 7y ago
This is the best Excel tutorial I have ever found. Even if you don't remember much about Excel, the following from this video allows me to basically get started with any data very quickly: 1. Ctrl A : Select all the data 2. Insert table : This will allow you to be able to filter or sort on any column, provide a row for stats if you want, and will auto format and color the table. You can also choose to go to a pivot table easily from here.
- Analemma_ 7y ago
  Those two suggestions, plus “always work in R1C1 mode”, are enough to supercharge most inexperienced users of Excel. If you take nothing else away from Joel’s video, get those three.
  - bitwize 7y ago
    R1C1? I haven't seen that actually used since Multiplan...
    - jasomill 7y ago
      A1? I haven't actually used that since 1-2-3… A1 users, please explain what the expression "$A$1 - A1" means in twenty-five words or less.
  - e12e 7y ago
    Hm, so that's using integers for rows and columns, rather than integer/letter (a1 vs r1c1). Is there a way to do indirect/computed references? Because if not, I'm not sure I see how it's much better (saner/easier maybe..)? What's the elevator pitch for r1c1? https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_excel-mso_mac/how-to-usecreate-formulas-in-r1c1-mode/f74759f0-725e-44ec-ba3a-abf1a747f603 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_... Ed: ok, apparently the video starts with r1c1 - so I guess I've found my elevator pitch...
    - iudqnolq 7y ago
vonnik 7y ago
Joel's blog about software is also amazing for those unfamiliar with it. Still worth reading posts that are more than a decade old. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/category/reading-lists/top-10/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/category/reading-lists/top-10...
mongol 7y ago
Would be nice with a list of "best of" youtube videos for various topics. This is probably best in class in the Excel category.
Nullabillity 7y ago
Please, just learn SQL instead of creating more Excel messes...
- enitihas 7y ago
  Excel allows you to do interactive analysis though, which SQL simply comes no where near close. For example, after creating an Excel table, you add a filter, see the changed data. You can Ctrl-Z for undo. Add another filter and see changed data instantaneously, undo/redo, sort on many columns, create derived columns and sort on those, and all of this interactively. Also, excel supports far more mathematical functions.
  - Nullabillity 7y ago
    > For example, after creating an Excel table, you add a filter, see the changed data. Add a WHERE. > You can Ctrl-Z for undo. Drop the WHERE. Hell, ctrl+z will work fine here too! > sort on many columns ORDER BY supports multiple columns too. > create derived columns and sort on those You can have arbitrary expressions in your SELECT clause. > and all of this interactively. Destructively*. And SQL makes it clear exactly what you've done to the source data in order to get there. > Also, excel supports far more mathematical functions. Surely that's what extensions are for!
    - ALittleLight 7y ago
      Earlier today I was looking at data from two different sources about the same thing. I wanted to see how similar the reports were. I grepped my logs, got columns of data, copied and pasted into Excel, created a line chart, copied and pasted the line chart into an email to a colleague. How would SQL let me do the same thing? With Excel this was probably less than a minute end to end. Would SQL be as fast? Keeping in mind that I wouldn't have a database for any of the data I was looking at.
      - hoistbypetard 7y ago
        Concur. For whacking out a quick analysis like that, it's hard to beat a spreadsheet. (I do like Excel, but no longer think it's all that far ahead of LibreOffice for most things I tend to use it for.) It's also good for creating what amounts to a quick interactive form. But I've lost count of how many times I've run across a spreadsheet being misused as a shitty, ad-hoc database where it'd be less work (and less error-prone) to just use sqlite (or even postgres, honestly), so I have some empathy for GP's perspective.
juped 7y ago
The fact that the GUI button to make a table is called "Format as Table" and placed next to purely visual formatting options (and makes you pick a color scheme!) has been the roadblock for countless Excel users graduating to power users, I imagine.
soniman 7y ago
His rude responses to questions aren't as adorable as he thinks.
- rndmize 7y ago
  It's a parody of another web series called "You Suck at Photoshop". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWn0lxRNqos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWn0lxRNqos
- youeseh 7y ago
  He isn't trying to be adorable.
  - soniman 7y ago
    He succeeded.
- unexaminedlife 7y ago
  I noticed that too. But then I thought: What if, before he started his presentation, he told the audience to save questions for after the presentation.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
phn 7y ago
The video is amazing if you're a coder and might need to use excel at some point (access columns by name?! sign me up!). However, what I love about excel is to see what it enables people without formal programming training to do with data, and using functional programming on top of that! Is there any tool that comes even close in terms of power, accessibility and ubiquity? What would such a tool even look like?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  I'd love to see excel running python under the hood with easy integrations to numpy and matplotlib and all that. There actually are a couple such projects I've been meaning to check out. In essence, I've spent a lot of my career modeling things in excel. For quick, easily shareable prototypes(to pseudo-technical people), excel is great. But add any real complexity and I rapidly find myself using some UGLY hacks to get the functionality that would be trivial if I could just iterate over the data more explicitly. If I could just click a cell and set the output equal to a python function return value, man would that be a tool. THE tool even. I don't really want to learn VBA or something clunky and not very useful outside of that niche context. I already keep too many programming languages in my head between python, c++, FORTRAN, and some bash scripts.
  - abakker 7y ago
    Check out XLwings. It can do some pretty handy stuff.
    - Enginerrrd 7y ago
      That is one of the projects I've been meaning to check out!
- rch 7y ago
  For larger datasets check out IGOR Pro.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
Did you ever see Martin Shkreli on excel on YouTube?
jrumbut 7y ago
I wish the Excel developers would bring some of the UI in line with other apps. The #1 thing here is the lack of smooth scrolling, scrolling by row actually gives me motion sickness whenever I use Excel (and that's not a problem I have with anything else I use). You can find a legion of people begging for at least a setting to end snapping to rows here: https://excel.uservoice.com/forums/304921-excel-for-windows-desktop-application/suggestions/19408420-smooth-scrolling-without-snap-to-cell https://excel.uservoice.com/forums/304921-excel-for-windows-... If anyone from MS is reading this, this seems like such a tiny change but it would really make a lot of people happy. In the meantime, could anyone recommend a smooth scrolling spreadsheet program? I haven't used the alternatives too much.
- magnetic 7y ago
  Numbers (on Mac) has smooth scrolling.
  - mattl 7y ago
    Numbers is a weird Quantrix/Improv inspired spreadsheet. Are people using it like Excel?
    - AznHisoka 7y ago
      I use it to view spreadsheets offline in my Mac, but use no other fancy features.
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  It would be nice if the mouse wheel clutch (i.e. Logitech Master 3) controlled that, so you could feel each row snap by individually when you wanted to, or toggle the clutch button or spin the wheel fast to scroll smoothly.
  - j88439h84 7y ago
    Nice idea. I wonder what would be involved in making that happen.
rekabis 7y ago
This… is supposed to be difficult stuff??
leeman2016 7y ago
I wish there was one for Access too. I find MS Access less intuitive than Excel.
andyreed 7y ago
I don’t get it, he seems to use his mouse to navigate. Day 1 in finance you remove the mouse. Video was boring/slow for such a drastic title. Should read “snarky guy slowly uses different functions in excel and is proud of himself”. I got my hopes up for nothing :/.
- slowhand09 7y ago
  You do realize Joel Spolsky was the MS project leader for writing Excel...
gizmodo59 7y ago
A must read: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-review/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-rev...
vermilingua 7y ago
Did anyone archive the Martin Shkreli video where he shows his Excel workflow? Think what you will of the guy, but that was one of the most info-dense videos I've seen, and it's a shame that YT saw fit to remove it.
- 1337biz 7y ago
  His tutorials were amongst the best I have seen on financial analysis. Problematic character but genius level skills and talents that he was willing to share.
  - getlawgdon 7y ago
    Why do you say this? I'm close to people in finance and they derided the videos and said they were the equivalent of showing off how fast he could parse filings into Excel when real pro have scads of solutions that automate it at scale. The view is that he's a criminal with a folk hero reputation for people who were dazzled by his attitude and his facility with Excel.
    - B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago
      > I'm close to people in finance and they derided the videos Living among the gentry with good private performers is fine, but the peasants have to amuse themselves with the traveling minstrels in the fair ... their technique may not be the best.
- visualphoenix 7y ago
  This one? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3nfcCQ0Vyl8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3nfcCQ0Vyl8
  - vermilingua 7y ago
    No, he had a ~90min video that was purely overviewing how he uses excel. Wasn't really about finance anymore, and isn't available on youtube.
Exuma 7y ago
This video is freaking amazing, and I already know a ton about excel.
duxup 7y ago
What always amazes me are the Excel wizards I find who show me a thing they want on their website in just a few minutes and I'm thinking: "It's going take me a hell of a lot longer to code that than it took him/her to show me it working in Excel...."
Alt-F4 7y ago
The title reminds me of a part of The Website is Down #2: Excel Hell (slightly NSFW) https://youtu.be/1SNxaJlicEU?t=216 https://youtu.be/1SNxaJlicEU?t=216
clausok 7y ago
The worst Excel user I've ever seen was my brother. At film school he was producing a student film. He did the budget in Excel. One day I came home from work and he had some questions waiting for me. Looking through his sheet, I noticed that his summation row at the bottom had hard-coded values rather than the =SUM(...) formulas I was expecting. Thinking he had inadvertently done a 'copy -> paste values', I said, "Look, you killed your formulas here." He asked, "What are formulas?". Turns out, he had been using a calculator to tally up all the columns and was typing the total into the cell at the bottom.
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  It may not be relates to your brother, but I often find that the smarter people consider themselves to be, the more often they never open the manual for the tools they are using.

228 points by kristianp 7y ago

Submitted many times, the most active discussion was in 2016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12448545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12448545

eindiran 7y ago
In the 2016 discussion, the link to the Martin Shkreli video is down. These are some of the videos in that series where you can see him use Excel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fASInVKShnM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fASInVKShnM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poyf3Cnb-MQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poyf3Cnb-MQ
- giarc 7y ago
  The fact that there is a world champion Excel user tells me I suck at excel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SysRS3lZm98&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SysRS3lZm98&feature=emb_logo

emj 7y ago

That video really helped me to understand the horror that is Excel, but why fight it instead create a linter for Excel: https://github.com/plasma-umass/ExceLint-addin https://github.com/plasma-umass/ExceLint-addin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEwUA0h2dsw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEwUA0h2dsw It is telling how complicated that linter is.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

notyourgrandma 7y ago

Such a classic, and great to give to first-year analysts

enitihas 7y ago

This is the best Excel tutorial I have ever found. Even if you don't remember much about Excel, the following from this video allows me to basically get started with any data very quickly: 1. Ctrl A : Select all the data 2. Insert table : This will allow you to be able to filter or sort on any column, provide a row for stats if you want, and will auto format and color the table. You can also choose to go to a pivot table easily from here.

Analemma_ 7y ago
Those two suggestions, plus “always work in R1C1 mode”, are enough to supercharge most inexperienced users of Excel. If you take nothing else away from Joel’s video, get those three.
- bitwize 7y ago
  R1C1? I haven't seen that actually used since Multiplan...
  - jasomill 7y ago
    A1? I haven't actually used that since 1-2-3… A1 users, please explain what the expression "$A$1 - A1" means in twenty-five words or less.
- e12e 7y ago
  Hm, so that's using integers for rows and columns, rather than integer/letter (a1 vs r1c1). Is there a way to do indirect/computed references? Because if not, I'm not sure I see how it's much better (saner/easier maybe..)? What's the elevator pitch for r1c1? https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_excel-mso_mac/how-to-usecreate-formulas-in-r1c1-mode/f74759f0-725e-44ec-ba3a-abf1a747f603 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_... Ed: ok, apparently the video starts with r1c1 - so I guess I've found my elevator pitch...
  - iudqnolq 7y ago

vonnik 7y ago

Joel's blog about software is also amazing for those unfamiliar with it. Still worth reading posts that are more than a decade old. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/category/reading-lists/top-10/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/category/reading-lists/top-10...

mongol 7y ago

Would be nice with a list of "best of" youtube videos for various topics. This is probably best in class in the Excel category.

Nullabillity 7y ago

Please, just learn SQL instead of creating more Excel messes...

enitihas 7y ago
Excel allows you to do interactive analysis though, which SQL simply comes no where near close. For example, after creating an Excel table, you add a filter, see the changed data. You can Ctrl-Z for undo. Add another filter and see changed data instantaneously, undo/redo, sort on many columns, create derived columns and sort on those, and all of this interactively. Also, excel supports far more mathematical functions.
- Nullabillity 7y ago
  > For example, after creating an Excel table, you add a filter, see the changed data. Add a WHERE. > You can Ctrl-Z for undo. Drop the WHERE. Hell, ctrl+z will work fine here too! > sort on many columns ORDER BY supports multiple columns too. > create derived columns and sort on those You can have arbitrary expressions in your SELECT clause. > and all of this interactively. Destructively*. And SQL makes it clear exactly what you've done to the source data in order to get there. > Also, excel supports far more mathematical functions. Surely that's what extensions are for!
  - ALittleLight 7y ago
    Earlier today I was looking at data from two different sources about the same thing. I wanted to see how similar the reports were. I grepped my logs, got columns of data, copied and pasted into Excel, created a line chart, copied and pasted the line chart into an email to a colleague. How would SQL let me do the same thing? With Excel this was probably less than a minute end to end. Would SQL be as fast? Keeping in mind that I wouldn't have a database for any of the data I was looking at.
    - hoistbypetard 7y ago
      Concur. For whacking out a quick analysis like that, it's hard to beat a spreadsheet. (I do like Excel, but no longer think it's all that far ahead of LibreOffice for most things I tend to use it for.) It's also good for creating what amounts to a quick interactive form. But I've lost count of how many times I've run across a spreadsheet being misused as a shitty, ad-hoc database where it'd be less work (and less error-prone) to just use sqlite (or even postgres, honestly), so I have some empathy for GP's perspective.

juped 7y ago

The fact that the GUI button to make a table is called "Format as Table" and placed next to purely visual formatting options (and makes you pick a color scheme!) has been the roadblock for countless Excel users graduating to power users, I imagine.

soniman 7y ago

His rude responses to questions aren't as adorable as he thinks.

rndmize 7y ago
It's a parody of another web series called "You Suck at Photoshop". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWn0lxRNqos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWn0lxRNqos
youeseh 7y ago
He isn't trying to be adorable.
- soniman 7y ago
  He succeeded.
unexaminedlife 7y ago
I noticed that too. But then I thought: What if, before he started his presentation, he told the audience to save questions for after the presentation.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

phn 7y ago

The video is amazing if you're a coder and might need to use excel at some point (access columns by name?! sign me up!). However, what I love about excel is to see what it enables people without formal programming training to do with data, and using functional programming on top of that! Is there any tool that comes even close in terms of power, accessibility and ubiquity? What would such a tool even look like?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Enginerrrd 7y ago
I'd love to see excel running python under the hood with easy integrations to numpy and matplotlib and all that. There actually are a couple such projects I've been meaning to check out. In essence, I've spent a lot of my career modeling things in excel. For quick, easily shareable prototypes(to pseudo-technical people), excel is great. But add any real complexity and I rapidly find myself using some UGLY hacks to get the functionality that would be trivial if I could just iterate over the data more explicitly. If I could just click a cell and set the output equal to a python function return value, man would that be a tool. THE tool even. I don't really want to learn VBA or something clunky and not very useful outside of that niche context. I already keep too many programming languages in my head between python, c++, FORTRAN, and some bash scripts.
- abakker 7y ago
  Check out XLwings. It can do some pretty handy stuff.
  - Enginerrrd 7y ago
    That is one of the projects I've been meaning to check out!
rch 7y ago
For larger datasets check out IGOR Pro.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago

Did you ever see Martin Shkreli on excel on YouTube?

jrumbut 7y ago

I wish the Excel developers would bring some of the UI in line with other apps. The #1 thing here is the lack of smooth scrolling, scrolling by row actually gives me motion sickness whenever I use Excel (and that's not a problem I have with anything else I use). You can find a legion of people begging for at least a setting to end snapping to rows here: https://excel.uservoice.com/forums/304921-excel-for-windows-desktop-application/suggestions/19408420-smooth-scrolling-without-snap-to-cell https://excel.uservoice.com/forums/304921-excel-for-windows-... If anyone from MS is reading this, this seems like such a tiny change but it would really make a lot of people happy. In the meantime, could anyone recommend a smooth scrolling spreadsheet program? I haven't used the alternatives too much.

magnetic 7y ago
Numbers (on Mac) has smooth scrolling.
- mattl 7y ago
  Numbers is a weird Quantrix/Improv inspired spreadsheet. Are people using it like Excel?
  - AznHisoka 7y ago
    I use it to view spreadsheets offline in my Mac, but use no other fancy features.
DonHopkins 7y ago
It would be nice if the mouse wheel clutch (i.e. Logitech Master 3) controlled that, so you could feel each row snap by individually when you wanted to, or toggle the clutch button or spin the wheel fast to scroll smoothly.
- j88439h84 7y ago
  Nice idea. I wonder what would be involved in making that happen.

rekabis 7y ago

This… is supposed to be difficult stuff??

leeman2016 7y ago

I wish there was one for Access too. I find MS Access less intuitive than Excel.

andyreed 7y ago

I don’t get it, he seems to use his mouse to navigate. Day 1 in finance you remove the mouse. Video was boring/slow for such a drastic title. Should read “snarky guy slowly uses different functions in excel and is proud of himself”. I got my hopes up for nothing :/.

slowhand09 7y ago
You do realize Joel Spolsky was the MS project leader for writing Excel...

gizmodo59 7y ago

A must read: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-review/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-rev...

vermilingua 7y ago

Did anyone archive the Martin Shkreli video where he shows his Excel workflow? Think what you will of the guy, but that was one of the most info-dense videos I've seen, and it's a shame that YT saw fit to remove it.

1337biz 7y ago
His tutorials were amongst the best I have seen on financial analysis. Problematic character but genius level skills and talents that he was willing to share.
- getlawgdon 7y ago
  Why do you say this? I'm close to people in finance and they derided the videos and said they were the equivalent of showing off how fast he could parse filings into Excel when real pro have scads of solutions that automate it at scale. The view is that he's a criminal with a folk hero reputation for people who were dazzled by his attitude and his facility with Excel.
  - B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago
    > I'm close to people in finance and they derided the videos Living among the gentry with good private performers is fine, but the peasants have to amuse themselves with the traveling minstrels in the fair ... their technique may not be the best.
visualphoenix 7y ago
This one? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3nfcCQ0Vyl8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3nfcCQ0Vyl8
- vermilingua 7y ago
  No, he had a ~90min video that was purely overviewing how he uses excel. Wasn't really about finance anymore, and isn't available on youtube.

Exuma 7y ago

This video is freaking amazing, and I already know a ton about excel.

duxup 7y ago

What always amazes me are the Excel wizards I find who show me a thing they want on their website in just a few minutes and I'm thinking: "It's going take me a hell of a lot longer to code that than it took him/her to show me it working in Excel...."

Alt-F4 7y ago

The title reminds me of a part of The Website is Down #2: Excel Hell (slightly NSFW) https://youtu.be/1SNxaJlicEU?t=216 https://youtu.be/1SNxaJlicEU?t=216

clausok 7y ago

The worst Excel user I've ever seen was my brother. At film school he was producing a student film. He did the budget in Excel. One day I came home from work and he had some questions waiting for me. Looking through his sheet, I noticed that his summation row at the bottom had hard-coded values rather than the =SUM(...) formulas I was expecting. Thinking he had inadvertently done a 'copy -> paste values', I said, "Look, you killed your formulas here." He asked, "What are formulas?". Turns out, he had been using a calculator to tally up all the columns and was typing the total into the cell at the bottom.

heavenlyblue 7y ago
It may not be relates to your brother, but I often find that the smarter people consider themselves to be, the more often they never open the manual for the tools they are using.