5 ms·

I was skeptical when I read the title, given Europe's constant overregulation of US tech companies, but the argument actually makes a lot of sense.

brosinante 7y ago
overregulation Or just normal non-unbridled-capitalism regulation.
iagooar 7y ago
From a European point of view, US tech companies are not even close to being regulated.
- oliverx0 7y ago
  I am European myself, but I tend to have more libertarian tendencies when it comes to this. Funny how right after posting this, I just read the news that France fined Google (again) [1] for arbitrarily banning a company from Google Ads and promoting its own services (unrelated to the other company). This is the kind of thing that doesn't fly in the US: If I own a platform, I get to decide who can use it or not, and it is not the governments place to fine for me if I decide to promote my products in my platform (as long as there is no discrimination taking place). I think this kind of bureaucracy and "overregulation" (inference in private business affairs) is part of what makes it impossible for European tech companies to be among the top in the world. [1] https://www.elmundo.es/economia/empresas/2019/12/20/5dfca947fc6c83dc6d8b45b1.html https://www.elmundo.es/economia/empresas/2019/12/20/5dfca947...
  - moksly 7y ago
    It’s not libertarian to value corporate rights above those of the individual citizen. Hell, when companies become more powerful than actual governments, the least libertarian thing you could possible do, is to give their kingdoms free reign.
    - oliverx0 7y ago
      It is not one above the other. I can understand if my point of views are not common or if you disagree. But in order to have a healthier debate, perhaps you could specifically address my points? The US does not (usually) interfere as much as Europe into business affairs. I don't think that automatically translate into "valuing corporate rights above those of individual citizens"
    - atq2119 7y ago
      Depends on what you mean by "libertarian". There's a vocal group of "libertarians", the ones that veer towards anarcho-capitalism, whose stance is basically that state power is bad but economic power is just fine. Those folks may not explicitly say that they want corporate rights to be above those of individual citizens, but the practical consequence of their worldview is that they will be (to an even greater extent than they already are today), because corporations have much greater economic power than individuals. "Libertarian" used to be a concept that was purely about individual freedom, but it has been twisted to a large extent into something that is quite opposed to individual freedom in practice.
      - oliverx0 7y ago
        Fair enough, let me clarify: When an individual engages freely in a business transaction or relationship with a corporation, I think that government intervention should be minimal. A clear example of this is employment-at-will. This doctrine only exists in the US. Everywhere else, governments step in and determine that you can not fire someone without cause. Competition is what makes this point of view OK, without it, it does become a monopoly and problematic.
        mnm1 7y ago
        I would say an individual never engages freely in a working relationship unless that individual is already so rich that he doesn't need to work. Otherwise it's by necessity that people have to get jobs as we do not have the ability to reject the social contract and live off the land or anything like that (legally or practically). At will employment is a misnomer. There's nothing at will about most employment regardless of what we call it.
  - C4stor 7y ago
    Meanwhile, in the US : https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/9/20857440/google-antitrust-investigation-attorneys-general-advertising-search https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/9/20857440/google-antitrust-...
    - oliverx0 7y ago
      This is good! Investigation is taking place, not automatically fining and asking questions later. I think my point is not really getting across. I am not advocating that tech companies get a free pass to do whatever they want.
      - denzil_correa 7y ago
        > This is good! Investigation is taking place, not automatically fining and asking questions later. There was a multi-year investigation by France before the fine was issued to Google.
  - denzil_correa 7y ago
    > I just read the news that France fined Google (again) [1] for arbitrarily banning a company from Google Ads and promoting its own services (unrelated to the other company). This is the kind of thing that doesn't fly in the US: If I own a platform, I get to decide who can use it or not, and it is not the governments place to fine for me if I decide to promote my products in my platform (as long as there is no discrimination taking place). US too has anti-trust laws much like the ones which France used here.
- amelius 7y ago
  Tech company or not, we desperately need new regulation/legislation for platform economies. Entire markets are being captured inside a platform run by a single company, with rules that are made up by that company. I'd rather have my market regulated by the government, thank you.
tpm 7y ago
US (and not only US) tech companies are heavily underregulated in comparison to the rest of economic actors in EU economies. That's an unfair advantage and probably will be diminished, but not completely lost, in the future, with new and updated regulations and rulings such as this one.
PeterStuer 7y ago
Why do you call this 'overregulation'? In both cases the regulation is far more relaxed than many EU citizens would like it to be. It merely tries to minimally protect society from the overall race to the bottom in terms of employee rights and in terms of zoning and safety regulation.
- oliverx0 7y ago
  I posted an answer to this question below. I can understand your point of view, I just think that this makes it very hard for European companies to compete. I completely understand the need to regulate when it is needed to protect people's rights, but I think sometimes Europe goes a bit too far, and it makes it hard for European companies to compete at the same level as US companies. EDIT: Also, my post was not meant specifically for sharing-economy platforms. In those cases I can see the need for some specific regulation (and even then I think Europe goes too far), but just tech companies in general.
  - rimliu 7y ago
    Or US does not go far enough.
  - dbspin 7y ago
    How on earth can regulating American companies in Europe make it hard for European companies to compete 'at the same level as US companies'. Either way, surely citizen rights trump companies rights to compete every time, especially since Europe doesn't have the legal fiction of citizens united style 'corporate citizenship'.
    - CalRobert 7y ago
      Mostly because US companies are the ones who can afford to deal with it.
    - oliverx0 7y ago
      There are to points here: on one hand, overregulation in general, which is what my point about not being able to compete was about. Specifically, how many European tech companies do you know that operate at the same level (in terms of users and / or revenue) as US tech companies? Then come the specific regulation of US companies in Europe. Have you heard of the so called Google Tax? It is essentially a tax on tech companies that make more than $X in revenue, which only happens to affect US companies at the moment.

brosinante 7y ago

overregulation Or just normal non-unbridled-capitalism regulation.

iagooar 7y ago

From a European point of view, US tech companies are not even close to being regulated.

oliverx0 7y ago
I am European myself, but I tend to have more libertarian tendencies when it comes to this. Funny how right after posting this, I just read the news that France fined Google (again) [1] for arbitrarily banning a company from Google Ads and promoting its own services (unrelated to the other company). This is the kind of thing that doesn't fly in the US: If I own a platform, I get to decide who can use it or not, and it is not the governments place to fine for me if I decide to promote my products in my platform (as long as there is no discrimination taking place). I think this kind of bureaucracy and "overregulation" (inference in private business affairs) is part of what makes it impossible for European tech companies to be among the top in the world. [1] https://www.elmundo.es/economia/empresas/2019/12/20/5dfca947fc6c83dc6d8b45b1.html https://www.elmundo.es/economia/empresas/2019/12/20/5dfca947...
- moksly 7y ago
  It’s not libertarian to value corporate rights above those of the individual citizen. Hell, when companies become more powerful than actual governments, the least libertarian thing you could possible do, is to give their kingdoms free reign.
  - oliverx0 7y ago
    It is not one above the other. I can understand if my point of views are not common or if you disagree. But in order to have a healthier debate, perhaps you could specifically address my points? The US does not (usually) interfere as much as Europe into business affairs. I don't think that automatically translate into "valuing corporate rights above those of individual citizens"
  - atq2119 7y ago
    Depends on what you mean by "libertarian". There's a vocal group of "libertarians", the ones that veer towards anarcho-capitalism, whose stance is basically that state power is bad but economic power is just fine. Those folks may not explicitly say that they want corporate rights to be above those of individual citizens, but the practical consequence of their worldview is that they will be (to an even greater extent than they already are today), because corporations have much greater economic power than individuals. "Libertarian" used to be a concept that was purely about individual freedom, but it has been twisted to a large extent into something that is quite opposed to individual freedom in practice.
    - oliverx0 7y ago
      Fair enough, let me clarify: When an individual engages freely in a business transaction or relationship with a corporation, I think that government intervention should be minimal. A clear example of this is employment-at-will. This doctrine only exists in the US. Everywhere else, governments step in and determine that you can not fire someone without cause. Competition is what makes this point of view OK, without it, it does become a monopoly and problematic.
      - mnm1 7y ago
        I would say an individual never engages freely in a working relationship unless that individual is already so rich that he doesn't need to work. Otherwise it's by necessity that people have to get jobs as we do not have the ability to reject the social contract and live off the land or anything like that (legally or practically). At will employment is a misnomer. There's nothing at will about most employment regardless of what we call it.
- C4stor 7y ago
  Meanwhile, in the US : https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/9/20857440/google-antitrust-investigation-attorneys-general-advertising-search https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/9/20857440/google-antitrust-...
  - oliverx0 7y ago
    This is good! Investigation is taking place, not automatically fining and asking questions later. I think my point is not really getting across. I am not advocating that tech companies get a free pass to do whatever they want.
    - denzil_correa 7y ago
      > This is good! Investigation is taking place, not automatically fining and asking questions later. There was a multi-year investigation by France before the fine was issued to Google.
- denzil_correa 7y ago
  > I just read the news that France fined Google (again) [1] for arbitrarily banning a company from Google Ads and promoting its own services (unrelated to the other company). This is the kind of thing that doesn't fly in the US: If I own a platform, I get to decide who can use it or not, and it is not the governments place to fine for me if I decide to promote my products in my platform (as long as there is no discrimination taking place). US too has anti-trust laws much like the ones which France used here.
amelius 7y ago
Tech company or not, we desperately need new regulation/legislation for platform economies. Entire markets are being captured inside a platform run by a single company, with rules that are made up by that company. I'd rather have my market regulated by the government, thank you.

tpm 7y ago

US (and not only US) tech companies are heavily underregulated in comparison to the rest of economic actors in EU economies. That's an unfair advantage and probably will be diminished, but not completely lost, in the future, with new and updated regulations and rulings such as this one.

PeterStuer 7y ago

Why do you call this 'overregulation'? In both cases the regulation is far more relaxed than many EU citizens would like it to be. It merely tries to minimally protect society from the overall race to the bottom in terms of employee rights and in terms of zoning and safety regulation.

oliverx0 7y ago
I posted an answer to this question below. I can understand your point of view, I just think that this makes it very hard for European companies to compete. I completely understand the need to regulate when it is needed to protect people's rights, but I think sometimes Europe goes a bit too far, and it makes it hard for European companies to compete at the same level as US companies. EDIT: Also, my post was not meant specifically for sharing-economy platforms. In those cases I can see the need for some specific regulation (and even then I think Europe goes too far), but just tech companies in general.
- rimliu 7y ago
  Or US does not go far enough.
- dbspin 7y ago
  How on earth can regulating American companies in Europe make it hard for European companies to compete 'at the same level as US companies'. Either way, surely citizen rights trump companies rights to compete every time, especially since Europe doesn't have the legal fiction of citizens united style 'corporate citizenship'.
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    Mostly because US companies are the ones who can afford to deal with it.
  - oliverx0 7y ago
    There are to points here: on one hand, overregulation in general, which is what my point about not being able to compete was about. Specifically, how many European tech companies do you know that operate at the same level (in terms of users and / or revenue) as US tech companies? Then come the specific regulation of US companies in Europe. Have you heard of the so called Google Tax? It is essentially a tax on tech companies that make more than $X in revenue, which only happens to affect US companies at the moment.