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So sad to see Meteor solidly in the avoid quadrant, but it seems deserved. Meteor is what I learned how to do web development with back in 2015, and it was fun.
by lgessler 7y ago
So sad to see Meteor solidly in the avoid quadrant, but it seems deserved. Meteor is what I learned how to do web development with back in 2015, and it was fun. It didn't take much to make stuff happen, and the baked-in live sync was like magic. I'm still eager to whip Meteor out for proof of concept prototyping because of how convenient it is to have a schemaless database and a framework that abstracts away HTTP, but for one thing I feel Meteor's big bet on Mongo hasn't paid off.
Also surprised to see ClojureScript's satisfaction rate at 60%. In the past year or two it's become much easier to use NPM packages, which was IMO the last remaining huge missing piece. It's now a great language for web development, providing what JS couldn't: a rich standard library with, ahem, consistent API's, a strong FP flair with excellent immutable data structures built in, and maybe most critically of all, a somewhat constrained macro system that allows users to write and distribute third-party libraries for syntax that in other languages would have required an extension of the language standard.
All of that is (I think) desirable by anyone unless you're hardcore anti-FP (with the one exception, I guess, that macros can be and are abused, though I haven't seen it very often in the CLJS ecosystem). So why hasn't ClojureScript seen more adoption? It's the age-old curse of Lisp, I guess: those dang old parentheses which decades of CS curricula taught in ALGOL descendents have rendered foreign and horrifying.
- didibus 7y agoWhere did you see a ClojureScript satisfaction rating? All I'm seeing is the have you used it before/heard of it question.
- sgdesign 7y agoSurvey author here, it's all the more ironic considering all these 21k responses were collected through a Meteor app ;)
- fatbird 7y agoI continue to be involved in development of a Meteor app that started in the 0.8 days, and has been actively maintained up to current versions. I'm a little sad, too, that "Meteor" as a technology all its own hasn't developed legs, but honestly, at this point it's a build stack and little more. Once you use React over Blaze, all it really offers you is a build process and a lack of need to set up your own GraphQL API; in exchange, you get exploding build times because of the uglification library, and something that you know is nothing more than a nodejs app under the hood, but with just enough special sauce mixed in that you don't want to look under the hood, hoping the vendor that's reduced the dev staff to 1 will keep in good shape. It's a missed opportunity, but the mistake was the Meteor Development Group's in betting on the JS community being satisfied with an "opinionated curation of the stack". The JS community has the attention span of rabid squirrel, and this was obvious back in the 0.8 days. They were never going to love a single bundle of choices for long.
- kabes 7y agoMeteor 0.8 was released in 2014, and I'm sure your app would still work on the latest Meteor release without much changes, while in the meantime offering all the latest JS features (JS in 2014 was a completely different world). How many other JS build tools & frameworks from 2014 can say the same?
- kabes 7y agoI don't think it's deserved. If you don't need the kind of reactive queries Meteor offers (and IMO is still unbeaten in terms of developer productivity in case you do need them), then you can safely ignore that part. In the end Meteor is mainly a layer on top of nodejs. So you can do all your regular nodejs stuff and you can run Meteor without any of the mongo stuff these days. Then it still offers you a zero-config build tool which has been absolutely unbeaten (at least in the JS world) in terms of backwards compatibility over the years. I think Meteor mostly suffers from not being the cool new thing anymore and being released in a period of a heavily changing JS ecosystem. I'd still pick it over any webpack config-clusterfuck project any day of the week.
- cheapsteak 7y agoHow would you compare it with Create React App in terms of ease of use and build/dev speed for front end projects?