4 ms·

Think they overextended themselves with the luxury fleet of Mercedes and BMWs. Worked pretty well with cheaper smart cars, IMO.

crooked-v 7y ago
I used it back when it was the Smart cars specifically because they were extremely easy to park anywhere, so the nicer cars were actually negative value for me even before considering the higher rates to use them.
mhd 7y ago
They're owned by Daimer and BMW, so the cost of the cars isn't as big a factor. Also, for long-running services, the initial costs aren't that important anyway if the cars are more durable. In Germany, almost all cabs used to be Mercedes. (I remember the whole cinema laughing in Collateral when the Jamie Foxx character presented his business outline for his luxury cab service)
- wnevets 7y ago
  Isn't the quality of BMWs different in Germany than in NA?
  - jeffwilcox 7y ago
    Quality is all great, but options, configurations, even engine choices vary. In Europe they are much more a la carte - cloth seats, etc., available, making them the standard cars in many ways at any price point. In the US and other "luxury" targeted markets, the country only offers certain premium configurations or bundles, such as how nearly all BMWNA cars have the "premium package", etc., significantly raising the MSRP to hit those premium luxury categories.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      It’s really funny to watch N. Americans buy BMWs with substantially larger engines than Germans, even though N.A. speed limits will top out at ~100 or ~110km/h. Even BMW Canada has some smaller base engines available than BMW USA. (Reduced stroke volume on the n52).
      - vkou 7y ago
        That's because cars are primarily a conspicuous consumption status symbol, and only secondarily a useful tool. It's also why a lot of people buy pickup trucks that they never haul or tow anything with, over SUVs - the latter aren't 'cool'.
        Scoundreller 7y ago
        I get most of that, but it’s a bit more complicated: BMW/truck makers could sell the smaller engine for proportionately less money, but they don’t because it would make the vehicle too available. Or just make up close enough numbers and most won’t care. 99% of bystanders won’t know the difference. BMW doesn’t follow its numbering scheme for engines anyway (The 323 had a 2.5L engine.)
      - magduf 7y ago
        >It’s really funny to watch N. Americans buy BMWs with substantially larger engines than Germans, even though N.A. speed limits will top out at ~100 or ~110km/h. That's not why Americans like big engines. American driving styles resemble drag racing: they like to take off from stop lights, even though their ultimate speed isn't as high as on German autobahns.
        Scoundreller 7y ago
        Iunno, SUV drivers seem to like big vehicles more than performance. I’m with you on pickups though, gotta have a Duallie V8 just in case you install a 5th wheel one day.
        usrusr 7y ago
        The actual driving style (distracted but polite to a fault and painstakingly low-key) I experienced in a week of driving as a European tourist tells yet another story: Americans want big engines so that they get moderate acceleration at the semi-idle throttle levels that allow their automatic transmission to stay in the quiet low rev range. Never saw anything in terms of "taking off" that could not have been handled by an engine half the size at full throttle on manual in high gear/low rev (most economic way to drive a given ICE) or by an engine quarter the size driven at low gear, high rev (most economic way to reach a given performance level of you can size the engine to fit). Perhaps I was at the wrong coast?
  - mhd 7y ago
    I guess a BMW in California is a lot better after the first year, because it hasn't been through the shitty German weather... Different factories have different failure rates, but Germany ain't even leading here (and believe me, there's no inherent "German engineering" factor separating someone working in Lower Bavaria than someone from South Carolina). Apart from minor details like bumpers and first aid kits, the cars should be pretty much the same wherever you go. Would be pretty bad from a marketing perspective if the quality varies too much, never mind that with global logistics, minimizing differences is pretty much the core value. Or in other words: The cars are overpriced rust all over the world.
- bearcobra 7y ago
  Even without considering the higher cost to manufacture a Mercedes/BMW vs Smart/Mini, those "lesser" brands were often more convenient since they made it easier to find parking.
superfrank 7y ago
I'm not sure it does. Lime had their LimePods car share program which used Fiat 500s and they shut down their program as well, although they wouldn't comment on the economics or the program (https://www.geekwire.com/2019/lime-shutters-limepod-raising-questions-viability-free-floating-car-sharing-model/ https://www.geekwire.com/2019/lime-shutters-limepod-raising-...). In Seattle, over the past few years, we've had car2go, ReachNow, and Lime all attempt the on demand car sharing and all three have eventually shut their programs down. Only ZipCar has managed to stick around, but their pricing model is a bit different and requires a monthly subscription. Based on that, my gut says that this no subscription, hop in, hop out car sharing just doesn't make money no matter what car is being used (although I'd be curious to see it tried again with fully electric cars).
- sukilot 7y ago
  Lime has two main problems: * The app is terrible, and devotes too much UI space to spamming ads for other products while user is trying to give Lime money. * They kept responding to low utilization by raising prices to the point where it's not notably cheaper than taking a cab.
- clairity 7y ago
  price/cost is a real issue, even with electrics, if bluela[0] in LA is any indication (indianapolis has the similar blueIndy). it's an all-electric car service rented by the minute, and developed by bolloré, a french conglomerate, in collaboration with ladot. bluela is riddled with problems[1], and for many use cases, it's not cost-competitive[2]. it's basically only economical for 15-minute point-to-point trips directly from and to charging stations (which have limited coverage, all near downtown). by my (very rough) estimation, such services become attractive when they're dockless and the cost gets to $3/hr for 3-5 hour rentals (the sweet spot for most errand-running and visitation trips). otherwise, you can often find rental car deals at ~$20/day. -- [0] https://www.bluela.com/ https://www.bluela.com/ [1] not dockless, unpredictable availability (both cars and charging spots), limited range, dirty cars/chargers, frequent breakages, poor UX (both app and car), convoluted rental process, payment issues, uncaring customer service, etc. [2] 20¢/min (≃$12/hr) with a $60/yr membership (also has a low-income tier at 15¢/min)
djsumdog 7y ago
I didn't know they had BMWs. I've only seen the Mercedes. Did they get those from the old/defunct ReachNow program BMW was trying out in Seattle?
- bowmessage 7y ago
  Hmm, I may have conflated the two services in my mind after this news broke last year: https://www.geekwire.com/2018/bmw-reachnow-merger-daimlers-car2go-approved-u-s-regulators/ https://www.geekwire.com/2018/bmw-reachnow-merger-daimlers-c...

crooked-v 7y ago

I used it back when it was the Smart cars specifically because they were extremely easy to park anywhere, so the nicer cars were actually negative value for me even before considering the higher rates to use them.

mhd 7y ago

They're owned by Daimer and BMW, so the cost of the cars isn't as big a factor. Also, for long-running services, the initial costs aren't that important anyway if the cars are more durable. In Germany, almost all cabs used to be Mercedes. (I remember the whole cinema laughing in Collateral when the Jamie Foxx character presented his business outline for his luxury cab service)

wnevets 7y ago
Isn't the quality of BMWs different in Germany than in NA?
- jeffwilcox 7y ago
  Quality is all great, but options, configurations, even engine choices vary. In Europe they are much more a la carte - cloth seats, etc., available, making them the standard cars in many ways at any price point. In the US and other "luxury" targeted markets, the country only offers certain premium configurations or bundles, such as how nearly all BMWNA cars have the "premium package", etc., significantly raising the MSRP to hit those premium luxury categories.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    It’s really funny to watch N. Americans buy BMWs with substantially larger engines than Germans, even though N.A. speed limits will top out at ~100 or ~110km/h. Even BMW Canada has some smaller base engines available than BMW USA. (Reduced stroke volume on the n52).
    - vkou 7y ago
      That's because cars are primarily a conspicuous consumption status symbol, and only secondarily a useful tool. It's also why a lot of people buy pickup trucks that they never haul or tow anything with, over SUVs - the latter aren't 'cool'.
      - Scoundreller 7y ago
        I get most of that, but it’s a bit more complicated: BMW/truck makers could sell the smaller engine for proportionately less money, but they don’t because it would make the vehicle too available. Or just make up close enough numbers and most won’t care. 99% of bystanders won’t know the difference. BMW doesn’t follow its numbering scheme for engines anyway (The 323 had a 2.5L engine.)
    - magduf 7y ago
      >It’s really funny to watch N. Americans buy BMWs with substantially larger engines than Germans, even though N.A. speed limits will top out at ~100 or ~110km/h. That's not why Americans like big engines. American driving styles resemble drag racing: they like to take off from stop lights, even though their ultimate speed isn't as high as on German autobahns.
      - Scoundreller 7y ago
        Iunno, SUV drivers seem to like big vehicles more than performance. I’m with you on pickups though, gotta have a Duallie V8 just in case you install a 5th wheel one day.
      - usrusr 7y ago
        The actual driving style (distracted but polite to a fault and painstakingly low-key) I experienced in a week of driving as a European tourist tells yet another story: Americans want big engines so that they get moderate acceleration at the semi-idle throttle levels that allow their automatic transmission to stay in the quiet low rev range. Never saw anything in terms of "taking off" that could not have been handled by an engine half the size at full throttle on manual in high gear/low rev (most economic way to drive a given ICE) or by an engine quarter the size driven at low gear, high rev (most economic way to reach a given performance level of you can size the engine to fit). Perhaps I was at the wrong coast?
- mhd 7y ago
  I guess a BMW in California is a lot better after the first year, because it hasn't been through the shitty German weather... Different factories have different failure rates, but Germany ain't even leading here (and believe me, there's no inherent "German engineering" factor separating someone working in Lower Bavaria than someone from South Carolina). Apart from minor details like bumpers and first aid kits, the cars should be pretty much the same wherever you go. Would be pretty bad from a marketing perspective if the quality varies too much, never mind that with global logistics, minimizing differences is pretty much the core value. Or in other words: The cars are overpriced rust all over the world.
bearcobra 7y ago
Even without considering the higher cost to manufacture a Mercedes/BMW vs Smart/Mini, those "lesser" brands were often more convenient since they made it easier to find parking.

superfrank 7y ago

I'm not sure it does. Lime had their LimePods car share program which used Fiat 500s and they shut down their program as well, although they wouldn't comment on the economics or the program (https://www.geekwire.com/2019/lime-shutters-limepod-raising-questions-viability-free-floating-car-sharing-model/ https://www.geekwire.com/2019/lime-shutters-limepod-raising-...). In Seattle, over the past few years, we've had car2go, ReachNow, and Lime all attempt the on demand car sharing and all three have eventually shut their programs down. Only ZipCar has managed to stick around, but their pricing model is a bit different and requires a monthly subscription. Based on that, my gut says that this no subscription, hop in, hop out car sharing just doesn't make money no matter what car is being used (although I'd be curious to see it tried again with fully electric cars).

sukilot 7y ago
Lime has two main problems: * The app is terrible, and devotes too much UI space to spamming ads for other products while user is trying to give Lime money. * They kept responding to low utilization by raising prices to the point where it's not notably cheaper than taking a cab.
clairity 7y ago
price/cost is a real issue, even with electrics, if bluela[0] in LA is any indication (indianapolis has the similar blueIndy). it's an all-electric car service rented by the minute, and developed by bolloré, a french conglomerate, in collaboration with ladot. bluela is riddled with problems[1], and for many use cases, it's not cost-competitive[2]. it's basically only economical for 15-minute point-to-point trips directly from and to charging stations (which have limited coverage, all near downtown). by my (very rough) estimation, such services become attractive when they're dockless and the cost gets to $3/hr for 3-5 hour rentals (the sweet spot for most errand-running and visitation trips). otherwise, you can often find rental car deals at ~$20/day. -- [0] https://www.bluela.com/ https://www.bluela.com/ [1] not dockless, unpredictable availability (both cars and charging spots), limited range, dirty cars/chargers, frequent breakages, poor UX (both app and car), convoluted rental process, payment issues, uncaring customer service, etc. [2] 20¢/min (≃$12/hr) with a $60/yr membership (also has a low-income tier at 15¢/min)

djsumdog 7y ago

I didn't know they had BMWs. I've only seen the Mercedes. Did they get those from the old/defunct ReachNow program BMW was trying out in Seattle?

bowmessage 7y ago
Hmm, I may have conflated the two services in my mind after this news broke last year: https://www.geekwire.com/2018/bmw-reachnow-merger-daimlers-car2go-approved-u-s-regulators/ https://www.geekwire.com/2018/bmw-reachnow-merger-daimlers-c...