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Teen Marijuana Vaping Soars, Displacing Other Habits

• noobermin 7y ago
  It's funny because for years, as the opening of the article suggests, usual teenage vices (booze, drugs, and sex) have been dropping contrary to 80s teen movie stereotypes. FWIW, apart from the potential concerns with inhaling vaporized anything--something people skeptical of vaping point to although the science hasn't really established if it is harmful or not yet, weed is certainly the weakest of drugs (including alcohol) wrt harm for the body.
  • anyanswers 7y ago
    > weed is certainly the weakest of drugs (including alcohol) wrt harm for the body. is the brain a part of the body? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930618/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930618/ https://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/11/marijuana-brain https://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/11/marijuana-brain
    • caleb-allen 7y ago
      Your first source states in the abstract that causality between marijuana use and altered brain function was not determined edit: if anything I think more research is needed to inform effective regulation. I'm astonished how little there is on this drug
      • CocaKoala 7y ago
        Getting permission to do research on a schedule 1 drug is pretty tricky, from what I understand? Since marijuana is schedule 1 it's termed as having a) no medical benefit and b) a high potential for abuse, which puts you in something of a catch-22 situation: you can't justify the research on medical grounds because the drug has no medical benefit (or it wouldn't be sched 1), and you can't justify research for exploratory purposes because of the potential for abuse (or else it wouldn't be sched 1), and then it becomes hard to find research that says "Actually, weed has medical uses and isn't nearly as abusable as heroin" because no research can be conducted. Edit: To clarify, that's not to say that marijuana _should_ be schedule 1, only that it _is_ schedule 1 and moving something out of sched 1 is challenging because the research position is tricky.
        • lostgame 7y ago
          >> Since marijuana is schedule 1 it's termed as having a) no medical benefit Eye. Roll. I always thought this was the most absolutely bullshit, patently false thing I'd seen in law for time. The medical benefits of THC have been well-established for decades. The sheer idea that there were ever arrests related to this plant is a disgusting mark on how shitty humanity can be, and how unwilling it is to acknowledge when it is wrong.
          • CocaKoala 7y ago
            Yeah, you can definitely look at the list of schedule 1 drugs and get a strong sense of "one of these things is not like the other".
        • mahgnous 7y ago
          There's plenty of research out of Israel on it.
    • ipnon 7y ago
      Alcohol and cannabis are both detrimental to brain development.
    • Pigo 7y ago
      I know people who are extremely dependent on weed, who will have anxiety attacks without it. It's less dangerous than most drugs, but there are people who are important to me that I wish could function without it. I'm talking grown adults, with families, who do nothing but play video games. Their problems would exist without the weed, but it seems to play a part in their stagnation. I guess I just don't know that many people who will just occasionally smoke it, it seems to turn into a lifestyle as much as any other drug.
      • double0jimb0 7y ago
        Not my experience observing others. Do you by chance live in a state where marijuana is not yet legalized?
      • Broken_Hippo 7y ago
        "... who will have anxiety attacks without it." Honestly, I've met many daily smokers in my life. Heck, I've been one off and on and tend to like to do it most weekends. I greatly prefer it to alcohol.Most folks can quit quite easily: At most, a few weeks of decreased appetite and trouble falling asleep. The worst effects wear off in the first week. The few folks I've met that have trouble without it have mental health issues, such as anxiety attacks. The worst thing about that situation is that one has to be able to find decent medical care and risk getting anxiety attacks - which I've read are horribly scary - to feel comfortable giving up smoking. And even then they might find that the smoking helps the best with the fewest side effects...unfortunately. Also, most adults I've met who smoke regularly do all the family stuff just fine. They work, they play with their kids (more happily when a little stoned!), and so on. I mean, sure, it makes you more happy with a slightly messier house and more happy just being, but the other thing with that lowered happiness thresh hold is being happier when going on walks or playing boring kids games. Sure, happier with a slightly messier house but also happier to do the cleaning. Happier to eat more healthily, and so on.
        • Pigo 7y ago
          I'm definitely not trying to blame weed, if people can use it responsibly I say great! The problem is people who have conditions like anxiety who become dependent on it to get by. Some people become alcoholics because they have stuff going on that they can't deal with, and that doesn't mean I think alcohol should be illegal. But just like them, I wish the drug wasn't a numbing agent that prevents them from dealing with the underlying problem.
    • draw_down 7y ago
      > is the brain a part of the body? It sure is. Now go look up what alcohol does to the brain.
    • mnm1 7y ago
      So which recreational drug would you say is safer than marijuana then and why? I could see making a case for psilocybin and psilocin. Is that what you're arguing? That the psilocybin and psilocin contained in magic mushrooms are safer than the THC and other cannabinoids contained in marijuana? I would agree with that. If not that, then which drug would you say is safer?
• wbronitsky 7y ago
  The article starts with something that is, by most accounts, harm reduction among teenagers: “Teenagers are drinking less alcohol, smoking fewer cigarettes and trying fewer hard drugs, new federal survey data shows. But these public health gains have been offset by a sharp increase in vaping of marijuana and nicotine..." The statistics, unused in this article, are quite clear: alcohol, tobacco and hard drugs more harmful to personal and societal health than marijuana. But then the NYT proceeds to whip up some nonsense about how harmful vaping marijuana is, staring, and really ending, as we have no clue how harmful this behavior is, with a quote: “'This is a very, very worrisome trend..." This is fear mongering, pure and simple.
  • nfoz 7y ago
    But are they vaping instead of those other things, or were we witnessing a decrease in the other things until vaping happened?
    • wbronitsky 7y ago
      I doubt the data source can tell us this information. It asks students what drugs they have taken at what intervals, and does not seek to address the "why." Hence the pearl clutching by the NYT to provide the "why" for us. Either way, we have no clue as to the harm that vaping causes us; we are rather certain of the harm alcohol, cigarettes and hard drugs cause us. The numbers in TFA are still pretty bad: ~17% of these kids have vaped THC in the past month where as ~50% had drank alcohol. Even if this was a tradeoff, it seems like a good one at this point.
  • jdmg94 7y ago
    it is clear that the NYT wants society to go back to the cocked up 80s
    • thedaemon 7y ago
      *coked
• whalesalad 7y ago
  The thing that sucks here is the health issues have nothing inherently to do with THC and everything to do with vaping a black market product that has shitty ingredients in it. I live in CA where it is becoming more and more regulated. I have a 'church' down the street where I can buy stuff at a steeeep discount (no tax, lower prices)... but I go to the regulated places the next town over (higher taxes, higher prices) that do lab testing and have their products sealed with a lab certificate. As soon as I learned that the underground trap shops were buying, cleaning and refilling used cartriges with god knows what I stopped going to the churches.
  • kalessin 7y ago
    I am not a doctor but from what I have been reading, consuming THC on a regular basis before 21 (the commonly accepted age for the latest stage of brain development) is definitely a bad idea, as it will prevent the endocannabinoid system to develop correctly. I would not dismiss teen smoking/vaping as a public health concern, it's not just about counterfeiting, I think we need better education about the risks and benefits.
    • SkyBelow 7y ago
      >before 21 (the commonly accepted age for the latest stage of brain development) Last I remember from my psychology classes, it was 25 to 28. 21 feels like a number picked to reflect law and cultural norms, not the science. But my information is a decade out of date and there could have been new findings since.
      • e40 7y ago
        I thought 25 was chosen because that's when brain development is mostly completed.
        • taurath 7y ago
          This has become quite the meme lately as a pop-neurology fact, but its... clearly untrue the ways people try to apply it. It creates a sort of fatalism about being able to improve or change your mind that in no way reflects whats actually possible.
• sysbin 7y ago
  The piece is built for fear mongering but I'm curious how the developing brain of an adolescent will be changed from constant marijuana use and compared to if it had never happened. I'm guessing how the drug is used would also be important in the longterm outcome because someone using it to help with anxiety might benefit compared to a developing brain under a lot of anxiety.
  • stevenwoo 7y ago
    overview of studies https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930618/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930618/ Every measurement of brain function decreased significantly with marijuana use, long term abstention seemed to clear up some problems, though physical changes in brain did not go away in users who started as adolescents, there were long term permanent changes to brain function.
    • sysbin 7y ago
      Thanks for replying with that research. I'll check it out and I'm not sure why my comment is being downvoted for curiosity.
• bryanlarsen 7y ago
  Marijuana extracts for vaping become legally available in much of Canada tomorrow.
  • deerIRL 7y ago
    Yesterday actually. My local dispensary had them in stock from Canaca already.
  • core-questions 7y ago
    Where can I find out more about this?
• ars 7y ago
  Unlike other drugs (smoking, drinking) adults (at least the noisy ones online) very much want marijuana. And because of that they are very poorly motivated to stop its use among teens. So this isn't going to get better, it'll get much worse. Adults also believe marijuana use is perfectly fine, and risk free, which may or may not be true for adults, but is not true for teens. But because they believe it's risk free they aren't exactly telling teens not to use it. And keep in mind: those adults who really want to use marijuana are the "nosiest" online, which is where teens get all their info.
  • gewrtw45 7y ago
    It's very true on HN. Marijuana it's heavily promoted here.
    • LanceH 7y ago
      Some promote the drug itself. Probably a lot more are behind the freedom to use what you want (and against the heavy criminalization). There are probably a fair number that would see the drug continue to be banned, but are just against the biased, fear-mongering, moral panic inducing "journalism" we see from once reputable establishments like the NYT.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • hoistbypetard 7y ago
    > But because they believe it's risk free they aren't exactly telling teens not to use it. Citation, please. My personal experience as a teenager two and a half decades ago and as someone responsible for the care of teens and pre-teens now is quite the opposite of this. The teens/kids I observe are being told very stridently not to use it, in the same terms and even by some of the same organizations (D.A.R.E.) that we were in the '90s. While there might be a (strong, IMO) argument that teens are disregarding real, serious risks because they find out some of the bogeymen presented by D.A.R.E and similar are overblown and assume all of us are over-articulating risks, I don't think kids are being told any less to "just say no." As if that helped in the first place.
• alistproducer2 7y ago
  >Vaping of marijuana was at the root of a public health crisis that unfolded this summer The fact that it takes the author two more paragraphs to elucidate that the illness was in fact linked to bootleg, vitamin E-containing cartridges is disappointing, but not surprisingly. That fact seems really material to the argument.
  • mylons 7y ago
    there's definitely a big push from entrenched industries that will suffer with marijuana's legality, and Boomer's treating it like a taboo. the front runner for the LIBERAL party in America is anti weed ffs.
    • trophycase 7y ago
      Most of the democratic party is conservative.
      • vorpalhex 7y ago
        Your personal Overton window is likely extremely liberal/progressive and outside the mainstream.
        • shitpostbot 7y ago
          Your personal Overton window is likely extremely conservative/regressive and outside the mainstream. Considering how far to the right US politics are from most of the developed world.
        • Xelynega 7y ago
          Mainstream for who though? The Overton window for the United states is very different from Canada's even though they're right next to each-other. For a lot of countries, the United States democratic party is fairly far to the right.
        • bag531 7y ago
          On the contrary, yours is extremely conservative/reactionary, and even moreso outside the mainstream.
• plumednom 7y ago
  Teenagers don't know how easy they have it. In the 1990s, I'd have go call up some shady delivery guy, wait around for 3 hours, then pay $10 per gram for some half-assed schwag. Now these kids can get an adult to walk into a high-end dispensary, and pay $10/hour for some 32% super dank nugs.
• lacker 7y ago
  This is great news. Vaping is far better for your health than alcohol or cigarettes.
  • kasi 7y ago
    depends on what you're vaping!
    • sgarman 7y ago
      Maybe stay away from that vitamin E acetate.
      • tartoran 7y ago
        It's a lottery, it doesn't advertise E acetate anywhere, the surprise comes a bit alter when the lungs stop working properly...
  • throwaway07Ju19 7y ago
    "Teen Marijuana Vaping Soars" is objectively not great news. Subjectively it might be great news if the vaping THC dose was low, but it is not. There is no technology that makes alcohol 100X stronger for todays teen than what it has been historically. But that's not true for THC products. On a personal note, I lost my hearing in one ear immediately after trying a strong MJ product. I just assumed it was congestion at the time but 10 months later I still have 70% hearing loss. I don't share this story with anyone because speaking ill of THC is heresy these days and a sure way to get downvoted.
    • lostgame 7y ago
      Yeah, I'd need to see some scientific evidence on how those events were connected. I've never heard of that before, and it's not really logical from what I can understand. And at least we have regulation now, you're welcome to buy weed with less THC. :) >> "Teen Marijuana Vaping Soars" is objectively not great news Bullshit. Smoking is far worse for you than vaping and I'm extremely grateful to read this headline instead of it being meth, crack, or Fentanyl.
• excalibur 7y ago
  That's wonderful. It's the most dangerous form of vaping and the most dangerous use of cannabis (aside from DUI), finding popularity with one of the most at-risk demographics.
  • seattle_spring 7y ago
    Vaping is the most dangerous use of cannabis? Can you share some citations on that claim?
    • excalibur 7y ago
      I was referring to the whole vitamin E acetate fiasco. Smoking marijuana doesn't kill people, at least not directly. Of course this risk decreases if you're not using black-market products, but since marijuana is generally prohibited for teens, they're already guaranteed to be acquiring them through illicit channels. Placing responsibility for their safety in the hands of their drug dealers seems disingenuous.
• dghughes 7y ago
  Two of the worst seem to be pulegone (mint flavour) and benzaldehyde (almond). The heating of the compounds is what causes the changes they are OK to eat but not heat and inhale. https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/vaping-liquid-tests-1.5381363 https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/vaping-liquid-tests-1.5381363
  • sybarita 7y ago
    That flavoring is for nicotine e-juice though, I'm sure some people do cut weed carts with it but generally the legitimate carts are made of cannabis extracts called "distillate" or "live resin" and possibly PG (propylene glycol, aka unflavored e-juice) as a cut. It always struck me as insanely dumb that people would assume food flavoring was also ok to inhale but I don't know what else I expect
• proc0 7y ago
  I'm an avid user for many years, and when I used vaping pens for a couple weeks, I felt the damage in my lungs, it was uncomfortable. Burning oil was a little better but it still felt like the hot air was burning your lungs, and burning wax had a completely different problem where I literally felt wax on my esophagus and lungs the more I vaped. Never had any of these problems smoking from a bong. I'll stick to what has been tried and tested for centuries if not millenia.
  • nwienert 7y ago
    You may have been a bit paranoid, wax isn't actually wax it's just pressed weed so you remove plant matter. When you smoke it through water it you're inhaling a healthier product because you're not incinerating leaves and stems, and typically you're doing it at a more controlled and lower temperature.
    • proc0 7y ago
      This was wax/shatter inside a vape pen. I'm sure it was the correct use. Whether or not that is actual wax, it definitely left some kind of residue that I could detect just by breathing.
  • emreca 7y ago
    That may be a general big-tobacco vape pen problem. I had the same issue with a Vype pen. I had to go to an emergency service because I couldn't take deep breaths after using it for a couple of weeks. Before that I smoked cigarettes for 7 years(1-1.5 packs a day) and vaped (dual battery, large mods) for 3. Once I started using Juul type of vape devices for 2-3 weeks, that messed me up I don't know why. My theory is that these devices don't have air holes like normal vape devices have. So trying to suck air/vapor without any air holes may make your lungs go kaputt. They are convenient tho I will give them that.
• neonate 7y ago
  http://archive.md/d62Cr http://archive.md/d62Cr
• trianglem 7y ago
  I don’t understand why everyone moved away from directly smoking the flowers so readily. I hated the idea of shatter/resin when I first heard it and there is no way I would use a vape pen.
  • umvi 7y ago
    Because lighting carbon-based molecules on fire creates thousands of carcinogenic components that are difficult to enumerate. Vapor, on the other hand, (theoretically) contains only 3 chemicals: glycerin, propylene glycol, <nicotine/THC/active stimulant>. In practice though, vapor has probably thousands of compounds as well due to "flavors", additives, and side effects of the heating coil on those things. It's all about perception though. Lighting something on fire and inhaling smoke is perceived as dangerous compared to inhaling "vapor" (which everyone does every day in the shower, right?)
    • nickthegreek 7y ago
      vape flower and you cut out glycerin and propylene glycol.
      • antoniuschan99 7y ago
        I always thought rosin is the best since it sounds like the cleanest extract. Is that true? If you vape rosin, then you should eliminate even the carcinogens from the plant matter?
      • exolymph 7y ago
        Nice mellow experience too. Recommend.
  • jachee 7y ago
    Combusting and smoking anything is a known carcinogenic path. The draw away from that is what's attractive about non-combustion consumption methods. That said, induction-based direct vaporization of dry flower is the best of both worlds.
  • deleted 7y ago
• tomphoolery 7y ago
  makes sense to me!
• mnm1 7y ago
  > The rate of overall marijuana use held steady for high school students who reported using it once or more over the past year, but there was an uptick in daily use. Marijuana use has NOT increased and more teens are vaping instead of smoking, consuming it in safer ways than ever before. Sounds like great news. Too bad the headline is clickbait bullshit.
  • mythrwy 7y ago
    Maybe teen reporting of marijuana use has increased now it's more socially acceptable to be out the closet about it.
• berniepebbles 7y ago
  Here are the factors that come to mind regarding the popularity of vape pens. 1) Availability Bias - The weed pen can be on your desk or in your pocket. Coca Cola exploits this human misjudgement, and that's why you can have Coca cola all around the world. The takeaway is that you're more likely to consume because it is there. 2) Mobility - It's mobile, unlike a bong. Get high right before your favorite song at a concert. Whip out the vape pen. 3) Stealth A) (Form Factor) - I think these are becoming popular with teenagers primarily because, if a teenager wants to smoke in their parents house, and avoid detection from their parents, a vape pen is less obvious. The pen is objectively easier to hide than a flower setup. B) (Stench) Vape pens don't smell as much. I've seen signs on businesses refusing service due to the marijuana stench on customers. People even smoke vapes in public and it's indistinguishable from vaping tobacco unless closely inspected or smelled. (The smell from vape pens exists, it's less noticeable than flower.) 4) Convenience - The steps to smoke a vape pen (push of a button and inhale) are simpler than the process of smoking out of a bong. We're dealing with stoners here! (Not all stoners are lazy, but many stereotypes are loosely based on truths.)
• finneganscat 7y ago
  Dry bud is the only way to go. Lately getting CBD bud from Oregon has been so good. My IQ is back up from the lack of THC. And my pain/anxiety have decreased more than with the THC herbs.
• arkanciscan 7y ago
  Imagine how many people would still be alive today, how many kids wouldn't have lost everything to truly harmful drugs, if this ridiculous prohibition had never been in place.
• cyberpip 7y ago
  Let them vape just like we, as a society, let people smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, and consume fast food and sugar. I feel like the trend to outlaw things like kratom and vaping is so hypocritical, I can only assume it's because they compete against big tobacco/pharma, not any kind of altruistic research.