5 ms·
Your use of their program is consent, they tell you when you get the kit.
by burnte 7y ago
Your use of their program is consent, they tell you when you get the kit.
- taneq 7y agoThere's a pretty significant difference between "when you use their service you can opt-in to have your data added to the dataset" and "buried in the EULA is a clause saying they own your genes."
- Nullabillity 7y agoConsent is not freely given if it's a requirement for something else.
- wasdfff 7y agoLooks like every end user agreement is bs by that metric too
- lovich 7y agoThat is a legitimate argument people make and also a reason companies don't want to test their EULA's in court
- delecti 7y agoYes, they are. And GDPR at least seems to rather explicitly agree with that sentiment. Consent buried in a document isn't real consent.
- Xelbair 7y agoYeah, and you cannot 'bundle' consent.
- gmanley 7y agoIn this case it totally is. Your free to not use 23andMe if you don't consent. I do think, however, it shouldn't be buried in the EULA but communicated clearly.
- Fnoord 7y ago> Your free to not use 23andMe if you don't consent That is not how consent works. If I am selling you an apple, but thereby you give me consent to use its genetics for research, and without that we do not do business, then there is nothing optional about it; no opt-in, no opt-out. Opt-in is when the flag is disabled by default, and you can enable it if you want to, and use the product regardless of your choice. Opt-out is when the flag is enabled by default, and you can disable it if you want to, and use the product regardless of your choice.
- matz1 7y agoThat is how consent should work, if I don't consent I should not buy your apple. Buying your apple is optional, I'm not required to buy your apple. Opt-in is when I buy your apple. Opt-out is when I don't buy your apple.
- misterman0 7y agoYou're not buying apples, though. You're buying "apples+X". That's a different from "apples". If your seller is upfront about that then I and people who want just an apple can go somewhere else for fruit. Most, though, aren't upfront about it.
- matz1 7y agoIf you want to buy just apples then you should buy it from other seller who just sells apples.
- Fnoord 7y agoThat is up to our governments to decide if such is allowed or not. For example, it isn't allowed to sell a gun or drugs with an apple (at least not here in The Netherlands, YMMV). That you can decide to not go for the entire package is not what we disagree on (apart from above, I suppose). What we were discussing is that the consent is optional; it is not in any of these examples. It is part of the package deal; then you don't call it opt-in or opt-out, as that allows you to opt-in or opt-out of something which is otherwise not in your direct advantage, but is in the other party's advantage.
- dkonofalski 7y agoI think a clearer phrasing of that is "Consent is not freely given unless it's explicit". I'm fine with giving consent as long as I'm clear on what that is. General consent for using a service, to me, doesn't include using my data and/or information outside of what's needed to provide that service.
- BurningFrog 7y agoThis idea would really upend contract law if applied there!
- austhrow743 7y agoTrade, no, interacting with others in general; ruled nonconsensual. You read it here first folks!
- threatofrain 7y agoAh I see there’s the opt in. In that case Microsoft telemetry is opt in too. You bought into Windows and agreed with the EULA after all.
- Fnoord 7y agoIt appears some people in this thread use a rather creative version of "opt in" [1]. There is nothing "opt" about what has been described here, nor about Microsoft telemetry (it was opt-out last time I checked). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-in_email https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-in_email
- enkid 7y agoI believe that's his point
- Xelbair 7y agoLooking as you cannot completely disable telemetry in windows 10 i fail to see how it is opt-in, or even opt-out. It is always on.
- Fnoord 7y agoI don't use Windows 10, but I from what I understand Microsoft had to make it GDPR compliant. I'm not sure they succeeded entirely with that (last time I checked, the German government did not find it GDPR compliant. Regardless, at the very least it was an improvement [which isn't an excuse]).
- justinclift 7y ago> Microsoft had to make it GDPR compliant. Not really. It's more like they have an army of lawyers paid so they can claim GDPR compliance, and delay/suppress or negotiate deals for years (if not decades) anything that comes up to say their not. That being said, apparently there are already ongoing legal cases around GDPR complaints for MS. No idea how those will end up.