4 ms·

"not offending others by asking sensitive questions/Avoiding awkward" is the polite thing to do. But a core part of being polite, is not hruting others through

"not offending others by asking sensitive questions/Avoiding awkward" is the polite thing to do. But a core part of being polite, is not hruting others through your actions directly or undirectly. ( or at least trying) In cases where not asking the question puts the other party in a disadvantage or at the risk thereof, I feel one shouldn't be allowed to claim that one was being polite or "doing the right thing". You were being either too shy, cowardly or selfish. This doesn't mean that you must ask such questions/ venture in those topics. But it certainly does mean, that those that don't, shouldn't be allowed to claim active virtues ( to others or to themselves). * Also, if one chooses to not inform the other party of the problem, I feel that one shouldn't make them suffer for that choice. Which means at the very least, not trashtalking them behind their backs for it. The first part is about being good, the second part is about not being actively evil.

cgriswald 7y ago
I’ve heard people talk about the “compassionate” thing to do and I’ve asked, “What exactly is compassionate about prolonging suffering?” Either they get it or they think I’m a brutish social nub.
marcoperaza 7y ago
>But a core part of being polite, is not hurting others through your actions directly or indirectly. ( or at least trying) The problem is wanting the notion of politeness to do too much work. Being polite, being nice, is just a moment to moment strategy for avoiding conflict. Unfortunately, niceness has become the most important virtue in American culture. Being good is much more profound, and niceness is just one of the many tools you can use to achieve it. Sometimes being good entails being harsh. Sometimes it means doing things that will upset others.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- StandardFuture 7y ago
  This hits at a fundamental point that has puzzled me about American culture for the longest time. A country that is so heavily steeped in protestant/purtanical Christian roots and yet does not even realize that one of the main components of that creed is NOT taking offense to things. In fact, taking offense to things is as sinful as actually offending someone. It's basically a philosophical method of being a little less self-centered. It also suggests that while objective offensiveness is possible (calling someone a harsh name, etc.), most of the time offense is taken rather than given. It is one of my favorite principles from a religion that most who practice said religion almost entirely ignore. Puzzling.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    > It is one of my favorite principles from a religion that most who practice said religion almost entirely ignore. Puzzling. There's nothing puzzling about this. Most people who practice any religion with written principles almost entirely ignore almost all of those principles. The official principles of a religion don't really have anything to do with why people affiliate to one or another.
    - StandardFuture 7y ago
      But, particularly in American culture it is the imbalance in "enforcement" of principles that is the problem. It is perfectly fine to be super-nice as often as possible. But, the culture is "do not offend" dominate and almost void of "do not take offense". This imbalance of cultural enforcement is likely a driving factor behind the younger generations view on enforcing standards of political correctness, social justice, etc. If you are offended then you are in the right, always, and without question.
      - clarry 7y ago
        http://thebeje.blogspot.com/2006/01/take-no-offence-unscriptural.html http://thebeje.blogspot.com/2006/01/take-no-offence-unscript... Take that with a grain of salt, there's plenty of stuff in the Bible that suggests overlooking offenses (things like Proverbs 19:11) and obviously forgiveness is part of it. But I'm not sure "take no offense" is quite the main component of that creed.
- harimau777 7y ago
  I think you are definitely correct. However, the other side of the coin is that: In my experience, people who say that they are being harsh for someone's own good are generally just being jerks. On the other hand, people who are actually able to be harsh for someone's own good are generally people who try very hard to be nice. It's sort of like the saying that luck favors those who don't expect luck. To be clear: I don't mean to say that I think you are a jerk. I realize that you are just explaining the principle that good and nice are not necessarily the same thing; not saying how you would or wouldn't act in a given situation.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  Being polite and nice is the lubricant in the gears of society. You're correct in that it's not the same thing as being good (and, as you said, sometimes to be good we have to be impolite or even harsh) but being nice is an important part of getting along with other humans, especially the ones you don't know.
kbenson 7y ago
> But a core part of being polite, is not hruting others through your actions directly or undirectly. ( or at least trying) The problem is that in some cultures it's perfectly fine to talk about things that in other cultures it's not. The solution to that is to give people a benefit of a doubt and not assume they are trying to be hurtful, even if your first response is to be hurt. We don't seem to be great at that when dealing with people from other cultures, and we're really not great about it with people of the same culture (but the same thing can apply, since people interpret culture differently). With the addition that we're currently in a zeitgeist of being very sensitive as a society about how people feel about what has happened to them (I would argue to the point that we're ignoring intention far more than makes sense), and it can be very hard to have sensitive conversations without someone being hurt and/or repercussions resulting, even if the intention was good.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  Not to mention the thousands of little subcultures that exist. I've seen people offended by others leaving notes that seemed polite to me - "please refill coffee pot if it's empty" as passive-aggressive, etc.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    Is being easily offended a subculture? Boy did I miss that memo, but it makes sense!
    - CalRobert 7y ago
      Well, it depends on how you define "easily". And any culture that agrees a thing is offensive will probably not feel the offense is taken too easily, because by definition it's the norm. I mean, I was chastised for taking a picture with a Buddha even while I did my best to be polite (I knew taking photos was OK but you had to make sure you weren't standing higher than the Buddha, etc.) - to me it seems kind of arbitrary, but I don't think the people offended ("annoyed with another dumb tourist" might be more apt) were being unreasonable. In my case it was just a move to a different country and the social norms about what was acceptable, etc. are slightly different. I've always advocated for a "refill the coffee if you find an empty pot" rather than "refill it if you empty it" approach since the latter means you _could_ be wasting a pot of coffee if you happened to be the last to want coffee that day, but I get that people have different views.

cgriswald 7y ago

I’ve heard people talk about the “compassionate” thing to do and I’ve asked, “What exactly is compassionate about prolonging suffering?” Either they get it or they think I’m a brutish social nub.

marcoperaza 7y ago

>But a core part of being polite, is not hurting others through your actions directly or indirectly. ( or at least trying) The problem is wanting the notion of politeness to do too much work. Being polite, being nice, is just a moment to moment strategy for avoiding conflict. Unfortunately, niceness has become the most important virtue in American culture. Being good is much more profound, and niceness is just one of the many tools you can use to achieve it. Sometimes being good entails being harsh. Sometimes it means doing things that will upset others.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
StandardFuture 7y ago
This hits at a fundamental point that has puzzled me about American culture for the longest time. A country that is so heavily steeped in protestant/purtanical Christian roots and yet does not even realize that one of the main components of that creed is NOT taking offense to things. In fact, taking offense to things is as sinful as actually offending someone. It's basically a philosophical method of being a little less self-centered. It also suggests that while objective offensiveness is possible (calling someone a harsh name, etc.), most of the time offense is taken rather than given. It is one of my favorite principles from a religion that most who practice said religion almost entirely ignore. Puzzling.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > It is one of my favorite principles from a religion that most who practice said religion almost entirely ignore. Puzzling. There's nothing puzzling about this. Most people who practice any religion with written principles almost entirely ignore almost all of those principles. The official principles of a religion don't really have anything to do with why people affiliate to one or another.
  - StandardFuture 7y ago
    But, particularly in American culture it is the imbalance in "enforcement" of principles that is the problem. It is perfectly fine to be super-nice as often as possible. But, the culture is "do not offend" dominate and almost void of "do not take offense". This imbalance of cultural enforcement is likely a driving factor behind the younger generations view on enforcing standards of political correctness, social justice, etc. If you are offended then you are in the right, always, and without question.
    - clarry 7y ago
      http://thebeje.blogspot.com/2006/01/take-no-offence-unscriptural.html http://thebeje.blogspot.com/2006/01/take-no-offence-unscript... Take that with a grain of salt, there's plenty of stuff in the Bible that suggests overlooking offenses (things like Proverbs 19:11) and obviously forgiveness is part of it. But I'm not sure "take no offense" is quite the main component of that creed.
harimau777 7y ago
I think you are definitely correct. However, the other side of the coin is that: In my experience, people who say that they are being harsh for someone's own good are generally just being jerks. On the other hand, people who are actually able to be harsh for someone's own good are generally people who try very hard to be nice. It's sort of like the saying that luck favors those who don't expect luck. To be clear: I don't mean to say that I think you are a jerk. I realize that you are just explaining the principle that good and nice are not necessarily the same thing; not saying how you would or wouldn't act in a given situation.
vorpalhex 7y ago
Being polite and nice is the lubricant in the gears of society. You're correct in that it's not the same thing as being good (and, as you said, sometimes to be good we have to be impolite or even harsh) but being nice is an important part of getting along with other humans, especially the ones you don't know.

kbenson 7y ago

> But a core part of being polite, is not hruting others through your actions directly or undirectly. ( or at least trying) The problem is that in some cultures it's perfectly fine to talk about things that in other cultures it's not. The solution to that is to give people a benefit of a doubt and not assume they are trying to be hurtful, even if your first response is to be hurt. We don't seem to be great at that when dealing with people from other cultures, and we're really not great about it with people of the same culture (but the same thing can apply, since people interpret culture differently). With the addition that we're currently in a zeitgeist of being very sensitive as a society about how people feel about what has happened to them (I would argue to the point that we're ignoring intention far more than makes sense), and it can be very hard to have sensitive conversations without someone being hurt and/or repercussions resulting, even if the intention was good.

CalRobert 7y ago
Not to mention the thousands of little subcultures that exist. I've seen people offended by others leaving notes that seemed polite to me - "please refill coffee pot if it's empty" as passive-aggressive, etc.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  Is being easily offended a subculture? Boy did I miss that memo, but it makes sense!
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    Well, it depends on how you define "easily". And any culture that agrees a thing is offensive will probably not feel the offense is taken too easily, because by definition it's the norm. I mean, I was chastised for taking a picture with a Buddha even while I did my best to be polite (I knew taking photos was OK but you had to make sure you weren't standing higher than the Buddha, etc.) - to me it seems kind of arbitrary, but I don't think the people offended ("annoyed with another dumb tourist" might be more apt) were being unreasonable. In my case it was just a move to a different country and the social norms about what was acceptable, etc. are slightly different. I've always advocated for a "refill the coffee if you find an empty pot" rather than "refill it if you empty it" approach since the latter means you _could_ be wasting a pot of coffee if you happened to be the last to want coffee that day, but I get that people have different views.