4 ms·

Why is that? And, alternatively, who would you trust?

by lghh 7y ago

SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
Russia is a malevolent authoritarian regime. Russian companies (like Chinese companies) have no power to resist the dictates of their authoritarian governments. I don't trust anyone completely, but democratic countries where government authority is checked/constrained by the people and competing forces are far more trustworthy.
- grzm 7y ago
  At least some of Jetbrains' offerings are open source. If you have security concerns, you may be able to alleviate some of them by your own examination. I'd also encourage you to consider separating your concerns about the Russian government and individuals living in Russia, just as you might other governments and their citizenry.
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    > At least some of Jetbrains' offerings are open source. If you have security concerns, you may be able to alleviate some of them by your own examination. Good points > I'd also encourage you to consider separating your concerns about the Russian government and individuals living in Russia, just as you might other governments and their citizenry. I do separate them, in a moral sense. But in a practical sense, Russian companies can't really be separated from their authoritarian government. What can they do to resist? There are no checks and balances. To be fair, Jetbrains was probably even around before Russia even started to settle definitively into its current authoritarian predicament. But thanks to the Putin regime, how on earth can they be trusted?
    - tunesmith 7y ago
      In a practical sense, how could JetBrains' software compromise security? People don't generally deploy build artifacts built from IDEs. And I suppose you could turn on a network monitoring tool to see if JetBrains software is broadcasting anything.
      - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
        Access to developer workstations (and all their permissions) is desirable on its own, even if you aren't modifying the specific projects they are working on. Telemetry features (on by default) can/could be used to obfuscate nefarious network chatter.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
    > I'd also encourage you to consider separating your concerns about the Russian government and individuals living in Russia, just as you might other governments and their citizenry. That's a big ask, because the Russian government's relationship with its citizenry is very different from the relationship of a free country's government with its citizens. Namely, I am confident that there is substantially zero risk that my country might compel me through extra-legal channels to modify my work product to target a foreign adversary. If they did, I would have many avenues to resist them, including the courts and the free press. But we know that this is not the case in Russia, being that they have neither rule of law nor a truly independent media. And we know that the head of that country is at best a violent and evil man, and so is an entity to be feared by those whose interests are misaligned with his. So, as much as we might want to, it's not quite possible to separate the risks imposed by the Russian government from individual Russian people.
    - Aeolun 7y ago
      > And we know that the head of that country is at best a violent and evil man, and so is an entity to be feared by those whose interests are misaligned with his. I’m not quite sure which country you were talking about? While I agree with your general point, it just occurred to me that that could be applied to both leaders. It’s the country and the structure of that country that is different (e.g. leaders will change, vs not).
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
        I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but he has not annexed any provinces of Canada or Mexico, nor has he ordered the assassination of journalists or opposition party members. Maybe he would in a different timeline, where the U.S.'s rule of law was as frail as Russia's is. Maybe, although I happen to believe he is not quite that bad. Fortunately we don't live in that timeline, in any case. How evil the guy at the top is matters more to the degree his acts are unconstrained by the rest of the system.
        c-smile 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- pnako 7y ago
  Right. I refuse to use Russian software on my computer made in China!

Why is that? And, alternatively, who would you trust?

by lghh 7y ago

Why is that? And, alternatively, who would you trust?

Russia is a malevolent authoritarian regime. Russian companies (like Chinese companies) have no power to resist the dictates of their authoritarian governments. I don't trust anyone completely, but democratic countries where government authority is checked/constrained by the people and competing forces are far more trustworthy.

grzm 7y ago
At least some of Jetbrains' offerings are open source. If you have security concerns, you may be able to alleviate some of them by your own examination. I'd also encourage you to consider separating your concerns about the Russian government and individuals living in Russia, just as you might other governments and their citizenry.
- SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
  > At least some of Jetbrains' offerings are open source. If you have security concerns, you may be able to alleviate some of them by your own examination. Good points > I'd also encourage you to consider separating your concerns about the Russian government and individuals living in Russia, just as you might other governments and their citizenry. I do separate them, in a moral sense. But in a practical sense, Russian companies can't really be separated from their authoritarian government. What can they do to resist? There are no checks and balances. To be fair, Jetbrains was probably even around before Russia even started to settle definitively into its current authoritarian predicament. But thanks to the Putin regime, how on earth can they be trusted?
  - tunesmith 7y ago
    In a practical sense, how could JetBrains' software compromise security? People don't generally deploy build artifacts built from IDEs. And I suppose you could turn on a network monitoring tool to see if JetBrains software is broadcasting anything.
    - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
      Access to developer workstations (and all their permissions) is desirable on its own, even if you aren't modifying the specific projects they are working on. Telemetry features (on by default) can/could be used to obfuscate nefarious network chatter.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
  > I'd also encourage you to consider separating your concerns about the Russian government and individuals living in Russia, just as you might other governments and their citizenry. That's a big ask, because the Russian government's relationship with its citizenry is very different from the relationship of a free country's government with its citizens. Namely, I am confident that there is substantially zero risk that my country might compel me through extra-legal channels to modify my work product to target a foreign adversary. If they did, I would have many avenues to resist them, including the courts and the free press. But we know that this is not the case in Russia, being that they have neither rule of law nor a truly independent media. And we know that the head of that country is at best a violent and evil man, and so is an entity to be feared by those whose interests are misaligned with his. So, as much as we might want to, it's not quite possible to separate the risks imposed by the Russian government from individual Russian people.
  - Aeolun 7y ago
    > And we know that the head of that country is at best a violent and evil man, and so is an entity to be feared by those whose interests are misaligned with his. I’m not quite sure which country you were talking about? While I agree with your general point, it just occurred to me that that could be applied to both leaders. It’s the country and the structure of that country that is different (e.g. leaders will change, vs not).
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
      I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but he has not annexed any provinces of Canada or Mexico, nor has he ordered the assassination of journalists or opposition party members. Maybe he would in a different timeline, where the U.S.'s rule of law was as frail as Russia's is. Maybe, although I happen to believe he is not quite that bad. Fortunately we don't live in that timeline, in any case. How evil the guy at the top is matters more to the degree his acts are unconstrained by the rest of the system.
      - c-smile 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pnako 7y ago
Right. I refuse to use Russian software on my computer made in China!