7 ms·

$300 for the simplest keyboard...

by overkalix 7y ago

lexicality 7y ago
hipster tax ;) (also, y'know - hand made products)
- jrockway 7y ago
  I don't think it's handmade. It has an injection-molded case, a PCB with surface-mount components that are likely pick-and-place'd, etc. I don't think they build them in quantities comparable to Logitech... but it's basically a mass-produced product.
  - lexicality 7y ago
    According to https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/sustainability https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/sustainability they make it in an office rather than a factory. Obviously that doesn't rule out a small pick and place machine but it seems less likely.
    - jrockway 7y ago
      I believe Adafruit does some of their "manufacturing" in their New York City office. I have seen videos of the pick-and-place machines they have there. More likely is that Ergodox EZ outsources the PCBs, cases, metal parts, etc. and just do the final assembly themselves. (The keyswitches are socketed, for example, so you just pop those in, put the keycaps on, flash the latest firmware, maybe run a quick test, and ship it out.) The line can be really blurry these days. Take a tour of the Prusa factory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX3pDDi9PeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX3pDDi9PeU. Sure, they ship you 3D printed parts... but they have hundreds of 3D printers running 24/7 to meet demand. Is that handmade? Is that mass produced?
- atoav 7y ago
  Economies of scale at work
stevehawk 7y ago
complaining about $300 for a great keyboard is like complaining about a pricey bed. You use it for how many hours of the day if you're a programmer/engineer? Maybe it's worth spoiling yourself.
- bloopernova 7y ago
  Precisely, although I don't think it's spoiling yourself. You use some things a whole lot that it makes sense to spend comparatively more on them than you would on "normal" items: * Bed * Office chair * Keyboard and mouse * Monitors * Footwear * Cooking basics like a couple of knives and a pan or two. Perhaps this can explain it better than I will ever be able: https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sam_Vimes_Theory_of_Economic_Injustice https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sam_Vimes_Theory_of_Econom... "At the time of Men at Arms, Samuel Vimes earned thirty-eight dollars a month as a Captain of the Watch, plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots, the sort that would last years and years, cost fifty dollars. This was beyond his pocket and the most he could hope for was an affordable pair of boots costing ten dollars, which might with luck last a year or so before he would need to resort to makeshift cardboard insoles so as to prolong the moment of shelling out another ten dollars. Therefore over a period of ten years, he might have paid out a hundred dollars on boots, twice as much as the man who could afford fifty dollars up front ten years before. And he would still have wet feet." Perhaps a modernized/realistic version would be "you can spend $200 on pizza ten times in a year, or you can spend the same on a couple of knives and second-hand stainless steel pans. At the end of the year, you may have some excess body fat depending on activity level, or some good useful cookware" (or something, I dunno, I'm never going to be as smart or eloquent as Terry Pratchett GNU)
  - detaro 7y ago
    Tbh, cheap(er) keyboards don't necessarily are unreliable and fall under that theory. I'm mildy interested in buying a fancy keyboard, but the Logitech I bought in highschool refuses to die...
    - twic 7y ago
kabdib 7y ago
Good tools will see you through a job with ease; they pay for themselves. Bad tools will have you hating life and doing a poor job at things. I spend many, many hours at a keyboard, every day. Life is too short to put up with terrible tools. My current favorite keyboard is about $150, and I would happily pay more because it's a good tool and when things are groovy I hardly notice it's there. I have a couple spares in a closet, because I don't want to spend time retraining.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dkersten 7y ago
The biggest mistake of my adult life, in my opinion, is that I didn’t buy a good keyboard sooner. I Kinesis Advantage2 now (with a foot pedal for shift), but I almost bought one ten years earlier, but didn’t because of the cost. I really wish I had. Most of us here on HN spend so much of our lives typing that we really should invest in good tools, especially for comfort. I rely on my hands so much that I feel like spending $300 to protect them from RSI and to improve typing comfort and accuracy is a no brainier. I think anybody who types a lot should get an ergonomic split keyboard with mechanical switches (and learn to not bottom the keys out). Your hands will thank you. A once off cost of $300ish is really not that much compared to discomfort or injury.

$300 for the simplest keyboard...

lexicality 7y ago

hipster tax ;) (also, y'know - hand made products)

jrockway 7y ago
I don't think it's handmade. It has an injection-molded case, a PCB with surface-mount components that are likely pick-and-place'd, etc. I don't think they build them in quantities comparable to Logitech... but it's basically a mass-produced product.
- lexicality 7y ago
  According to https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/sustainability https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/sustainability they make it in an office rather than a factory. Obviously that doesn't rule out a small pick and place machine but it seems less likely.
  - jrockway 7y ago
    I believe Adafruit does some of their "manufacturing" in their New York City office. I have seen videos of the pick-and-place machines they have there. More likely is that Ergodox EZ outsources the PCBs, cases, metal parts, etc. and just do the final assembly themselves. (The keyswitches are socketed, for example, so you just pop those in, put the keycaps on, flash the latest firmware, maybe run a quick test, and ship it out.) The line can be really blurry these days. Take a tour of the Prusa factory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX3pDDi9PeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX3pDDi9PeU. Sure, they ship you 3D printed parts... but they have hundreds of 3D printers running 24/7 to meet demand. Is that handmade? Is that mass produced?
atoav 7y ago
Economies of scale at work

stevehawk 7y ago

complaining about $300 for a great keyboard is like complaining about a pricey bed. You use it for how many hours of the day if you're a programmer/engineer? Maybe it's worth spoiling yourself.

bloopernova 7y ago
Precisely, although I don't think it's spoiling yourself. You use some things a whole lot that it makes sense to spend comparatively more on them than you would on "normal" items: * Bed * Office chair * Keyboard and mouse * Monitors * Footwear * Cooking basics like a couple of knives and a pan or two. Perhaps this can explain it better than I will ever be able: https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sam_Vimes_Theory_of_Economic_Injustice https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sam_Vimes_Theory_of_Econom... "At the time of Men at Arms, Samuel Vimes earned thirty-eight dollars a month as a Captain of the Watch, plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots, the sort that would last years and years, cost fifty dollars. This was beyond his pocket and the most he could hope for was an affordable pair of boots costing ten dollars, which might with luck last a year or so before he would need to resort to makeshift cardboard insoles so as to prolong the moment of shelling out another ten dollars. Therefore over a period of ten years, he might have paid out a hundred dollars on boots, twice as much as the man who could afford fifty dollars up front ten years before. And he would still have wet feet." Perhaps a modernized/realistic version would be "you can spend $200 on pizza ten times in a year, or you can spend the same on a couple of knives and second-hand stainless steel pans. At the end of the year, you may have some excess body fat depending on activity level, or some good useful cookware" (or something, I dunno, I'm never going to be as smart or eloquent as Terry Pratchett GNU)
- detaro 7y ago
  Tbh, cheap(er) keyboards don't necessarily are unreliable and fall under that theory. I'm mildy interested in buying a fancy keyboard, but the Logitech I bought in highschool refuses to die...
  - twic 7y ago

kabdib 7y ago

Good tools will see you through a job with ease; they pay for themselves. Bad tools will have you hating life and doing a poor job at things. I spend many, many hours at a keyboard, every day. Life is too short to put up with terrible tools. My current favorite keyboard is about $150, and I would happily pay more because it's a good tool and when things are groovy I hardly notice it's there. I have a couple spares in a closet, because I don't want to spend time retraining.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dkersten 7y ago

The biggest mistake of my adult life, in my opinion, is that I didn’t buy a good keyboard sooner. I Kinesis Advantage2 now (with a foot pedal for shift), but I almost bought one ten years earlier, but didn’t because of the cost. I really wish I had. Most of us here on HN spend so much of our lives typing that we really should invest in good tools, especially for comfort. I rely on my hands so much that I feel like spending $300 to protect them from RSI and to improve typing comfort and accuracy is a no brainier. I think anybody who types a lot should get an ergonomic split keyboard with mechanical switches (and learn to not bottom the keys out). Your hands will thank you. A once off cost of $300ish is really not that much compared to discomfort or injury.