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One of the most important sentences in this article is "sex differences in behavior are so pervasive in nearly every other species. It's just not plausible that

One of the most important sentences in this article is "sex differences in behavior are so pervasive in nearly every other species. It's just not plausible that somehow male and female psychology evolved to be identical despite the physiological differences and different reproductive roles across human evolutionary history." The point is, we not only have data of sex differences, we do have an explanation for why those differences exist. There is comprehensive book about this: Male, Female: The Evolution of Human Sex Differences https://www.amazon.com/Male-Female-Evolution-Differences-Second-ebook/dp/B00CD3O3BE/ https://www.amazon.com/Male-Female-Evolution-Differences-Sec...

starpilot 7y ago
When Julia Galef hosted a talk on gender-based brain differences, she and the (female) guest scientist explicitly stated their Bayesian prior belief, male and female brains are different, for this reason. I can't believe how political correctness and feminism have normalized a nigh-miraculous coincidence, that male brain == female brain, while male body ≠ female body, against the entire backdrop of evolutionary biology. It makes no sense.
- kerakaali 7y ago
  Well, I'd postulate the origins lie even deeper. Years of male brain-focused research in psychology and neuroscience have not done this misconception any favours. It's only just recently in the past decade that researchers are looking into differences sex has on biological impact wrt drugs. Heck, even until the past few years, consensus by scientists is that perception of pain is the same across males and females [0]. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00895-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00895-3
- MyHypatia 7y ago
  >> It makes no sense. I think it makes a lot of sense. Of course there are differences between men and women. This has been used to deny women entrance to universities, to take out loans, to own property, vote, participate in politics, make laws, start companies, become scientists and doctors, run marathons, and make many substantial decisions about their lives. If these differences weren't historically used as justification to deny people the ability to have control over their lives, then yes it would be easier to talk about them. Given the reality of how "focusing on differences" turns out for certain groups, it makes sense why people push for a more complete conversation than just Male != Female. I have never spoken to a single person who flat out denies that biological differences and preferences exist between men and women. I think it is largely an uncharitable summary of the view that "Men and women aren't as different as society imposes through socialization." I don't think that most feminists claim that men and women have no differences. I also don't think it is politically incorrect to acknowledge that men and women are different and may have different preferences, as long as it is not used in the context to dismiss valid concerns about how women and men are treated socially, politically, and economically.
  - wirrbel 7y ago
    Yes, and our societies when talking about sex differences in the brain usually assume male brains to be normal, and female brains to be different or in some way deficient.
    - username90 7y ago
      Most articles I read talks about how to socialize boys to be more like girls. Like, how do we make boys sit still in classroom? How do we make men less violent? How do we make men communicate nicer like women? How do we make men clean their homes instead of being fine with living in a mess? How do we make men want to settle down instead of sleeping around? How do we make men cry more like women? How do we make men talk more about feelings and less about things? The only things I see they normalize in boys is love for technical subjects. And ever there we don't say that we need to change girls so they love technical subjects, instead we say we need to change boys so that girls can start to love technical subjects. So I very much think that we normalize girls, girls shouldn't have to change anything at all about who they are, instead all social change must happen by changing boys as much as possible into girls.
  - username90 7y ago
    > I also don't think it is politically incorrect to acknowledge that men and women are different and may have different preferences, as long as it is not used in the context to dismiss valid concerns about how women and men are treated socially, politically, and economically. Damore argued exactly for this but it still led to a shitstorm which ultimately got him fired. This proves that these things are still extremely politically incorrect.
    - andybak 7y ago
      > Damore argued exactly for this but it still led to a shitstorm which ultimately got him fired. This proves that these things are still extremely politically incorrect. Whether what happened to him was right or wrong, your statement is an oversimplification of that case. But as a mod said further up, let's not go there as this discussion will spiral off into typically unproductive territory.
- larnmar 7y ago
  > I can't believe how political correctness and feminism have normalized a nigh-miraculous coincidence, that male brain == female brain, while male body ≠ female body, against the entire backdrop of evolutionary biology. It makes no sense Bear in mind that for most of the last hundred-and-something years, the psychological profession has laboured under the blank-slate assumption that human psychology is 100% learned and the human brain is somehow a general-purpose learning machine; in which case the identically of these unevolved blank slates makes perfect sense. As recently as the 1980s I remember my schoolteachers telling me about instinct, and how ducklings knew immediately how to wander down to the water and start swimming; but that humans are different, we don’t have instincts. (Admittedly I’m sure my local primary school was not exactly on the leading edge of psychology research, but still...)
  - QuesnayJr 7y ago
    > Bear in mind that for most of the last hundred-and-something years, the psychological profession has laboured under the blank-slate assumption that human psychology is 100% learned and the human brain is somehow a general-purpose learning machine; in which case the identically of these unevolved blank slates makes perfect sense. This is a myth. (I'm not sure where it comes from... maybe Steven Pinker?) Psychologists have held all kinds of different beliefs about the relationship between genetics and psychology. Carl Jung, for example, thought we could inherit memories from our ancestors genetically.
    - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
      That would explain why it seems like every single Western child knows the lyrics to "Bohemian Rhapsody"
      - misterman0 7y ago
        "mamma mia mamma mia mamma mia figaro" I'll be damned. I know every word.

starpilot 7y ago

When Julia Galef hosted a talk on gender-based brain differences, she and the (female) guest scientist explicitly stated their Bayesian prior belief, male and female brains are different, for this reason. I can't believe how political correctness and feminism have normalized a nigh-miraculous coincidence, that male brain == female brain, while male body ≠ female body, against the entire backdrop of evolutionary biology. It makes no sense.

kerakaali 7y ago
Well, I'd postulate the origins lie even deeper. Years of male brain-focused research in psychology and neuroscience have not done this misconception any favours. It's only just recently in the past decade that researchers are looking into differences sex has on biological impact wrt drugs. Heck, even until the past few years, consensus by scientists is that perception of pain is the same across males and females [0]. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00895-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00895-3
MyHypatia 7y ago
>> It makes no sense. I think it makes a lot of sense. Of course there are differences between men and women. This has been used to deny women entrance to universities, to take out loans, to own property, vote, participate in politics, make laws, start companies, become scientists and doctors, run marathons, and make many substantial decisions about their lives. If these differences weren't historically used as justification to deny people the ability to have control over their lives, then yes it would be easier to talk about them. Given the reality of how "focusing on differences" turns out for certain groups, it makes sense why people push for a more complete conversation than just Male != Female. I have never spoken to a single person who flat out denies that biological differences and preferences exist between men and women. I think it is largely an uncharitable summary of the view that "Men and women aren't as different as society imposes through socialization." I don't think that most feminists claim that men and women have no differences. I also don't think it is politically incorrect to acknowledge that men and women are different and may have different preferences, as long as it is not used in the context to dismiss valid concerns about how women and men are treated socially, politically, and economically.
- wirrbel 7y ago
  Yes, and our societies when talking about sex differences in the brain usually assume male brains to be normal, and female brains to be different or in some way deficient.
  - username90 7y ago
    Most articles I read talks about how to socialize boys to be more like girls. Like, how do we make boys sit still in classroom? How do we make men less violent? How do we make men communicate nicer like women? How do we make men clean their homes instead of being fine with living in a mess? How do we make men want to settle down instead of sleeping around? How do we make men cry more like women? How do we make men talk more about feelings and less about things? The only things I see they normalize in boys is love for technical subjects. And ever there we don't say that we need to change girls so they love technical subjects, instead we say we need to change boys so that girls can start to love technical subjects. So I very much think that we normalize girls, girls shouldn't have to change anything at all about who they are, instead all social change must happen by changing boys as much as possible into girls.
- username90 7y ago
  > I also don't think it is politically incorrect to acknowledge that men and women are different and may have different preferences, as long as it is not used in the context to dismiss valid concerns about how women and men are treated socially, politically, and economically. Damore argued exactly for this but it still led to a shitstorm which ultimately got him fired. This proves that these things are still extremely politically incorrect.
  - andybak 7y ago
    > Damore argued exactly for this but it still led to a shitstorm which ultimately got him fired. This proves that these things are still extremely politically incorrect. Whether what happened to him was right or wrong, your statement is an oversimplification of that case. But as a mod said further up, let's not go there as this discussion will spiral off into typically unproductive territory.
larnmar 7y ago
> I can't believe how political correctness and feminism have normalized a nigh-miraculous coincidence, that male brain == female brain, while male body ≠ female body, against the entire backdrop of evolutionary biology. It makes no sense Bear in mind that for most of the last hundred-and-something years, the psychological profession has laboured under the blank-slate assumption that human psychology is 100% learned and the human brain is somehow a general-purpose learning machine; in which case the identically of these unevolved blank slates makes perfect sense. As recently as the 1980s I remember my schoolteachers telling me about instinct, and how ducklings knew immediately how to wander down to the water and start swimming; but that humans are different, we don’t have instincts. (Admittedly I’m sure my local primary school was not exactly on the leading edge of psychology research, but still...)
- QuesnayJr 7y ago
  > Bear in mind that for most of the last hundred-and-something years, the psychological profession has laboured under the blank-slate assumption that human psychology is 100% learned and the human brain is somehow a general-purpose learning machine; in which case the identically of these unevolved blank slates makes perfect sense. This is a myth. (I'm not sure where it comes from... maybe Steven Pinker?) Psychologists have held all kinds of different beliefs about the relationship between genetics and psychology. Carl Jung, for example, thought we could inherit memories from our ancestors genetically.
  - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
    That would explain why it seems like every single Western child knows the lyrics to "Bohemian Rhapsody"
    - misterman0 7y ago
      "mamma mia mamma mia mamma mia figaro" I'll be damned. I know every word.