7 ms·

> It’s also more difficult for me as a I have a US layout keyboard at home and a German layout at work. I'd hate tp be forced to use a specific layout governed

> It’s also more difficult for me as a I have a US layout keyboard at home and a German layout at work. I'd hate tp be forced to use a specific layout governed by my employer and I'm glad it's not been a problem so far to get a replacement keyboard with US layout. It's pretty common nowadays for developers to simply prefer the US layout if their country's is not great, like the German one that makes typing braces etc. a pain in the ass.

FabHK 7y ago
At any rate, learn to to touch type blind, and then switch to your preferred keyboard layout in software (and ignore what’s printed on the keys). My mom can do it; I’d expect any programmer to be able to do it.
- lucb1e 7y ago
  > and then switch to your preferred keyboard layout in software If only. They have a different shape shift and enter key. It's not impossible to type on different keyboards at home and at work without mixing it up too much, but it is annoying, and not just a software configuration. (Source: am Dutch, live in Germany, have different keyboards at home and at work because I don't want to throw one away when it still works fine even if it's a little annoying.)
- bori5 7y ago
  being able to program does not necessarily mean you can touch type blind
- sfgweilr4f 7y ago
  You can connect the two and infer interesting facts, but programming ability has nothing to do with blind touch typing. You can have zero skill in one and be great in the other. Yes I've met programmers who can't touch type. Their "hunt and peck" is faster than a lot of other people's touch typing. Programmers tend to have better typing skills in general than other people. But speed wise, real[1] touch typists leave general programmers[2] in the dust. This should not be a surprise. [1] Touch typists who are specialized for typing speed as first priority. This doesn't generally include programmers because they are specialized for programming and typing is really just a secondary skill in being able to use "a tool of trade". [2] Someone will now suggest that they happen to have practiced for a week and can beat everyone they know. Well done. Now you're still not a specialized touch typist... A real touch typist just needs to practice more and will still likely beat you. Or it could be argued they type faster due to characters/week.
cookie_monsta 7y ago
Is it not possible to BYO keyboard? This must be a productivity drag on a lot of people in similar situations
- netsharc 7y ago
  Geez, does he not know about software keyboard layouts? The hardware keyboard in front of me has German labels on most of the symbol keys, but I mostly set Windows to use the US keyboard layout and use my memory. Curly braces are a pain in the ass (and fingers) in the German layout, because one would have to press AltGr (the right Alt button) and 7 or 0 to get { or }. You end up holding right Alt with your thumb and needing to stretch to reach for 7. [ and ] is AltGr+8 and 9, and they're also both ergonomic disasters, because you have to tuck your thumb underneath your palm. Lastly, as he wrote, y and z are switched around on the German layout. An interesting quirk is that amayon.com and amayon.de redirect to Amazon, someone thought about all the suffering QWERTY expats.
  - stkdump 7y ago
    Keyboards, if you don't have special requirements, are cheap and easy to get. I prefer using US layout keyboards everywhere, so I don't have to remember to ignore labels (such as the braces which are shifted by one place). Then using the layout US-international no dead keys.
dirkt 7y ago
> It's pretty common nowadays for developers to simply prefer the US layout if their country's is not great For a long time, I've been using a modifcation of the US layout with an additional modifier giving me äöüÄÜÖß in the places where they would be on a German keyboard. Works very well, as I need []{}\| much more frequently than the umlauts. And as it's a OS layout change, it works no matter if the physical keyboard has German or US layout.
- Semaphor 7y ago
  I use an adapted US-Intl layout that removes the deadkeys and Ctrl+Alt+o becomes ö (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+O Ö) and the same for the other Umlauts. Took some getting used to not doing "o for ö anymore, but it’s great for programming.
izolate 7y ago
A good company will honour your request for a specific keyboard layout. I've spent the majority of my working life in Europe and have always requested (and fortunately received) a US-layout keyboard at work.
- benhurmarcel 7y ago
  Given the price of a basic keyboard, it's not really a problem. Worst case you get your own.
benibela 7y ago
On the other hand, I can only work with the German layout after living in Germany too long I bought a refurbished, mechanical keyboard that was supposed to have the German layout, but it actually has the US layout, so I cannot use it. I have been planing to sell it. Anyone interested?
- snypox 7y ago
  As a hungarian, I use a US keyboard with hungarian layout for months. It's not a problem, just don't look at the keyboard.
  - benibela 7y ago
    But the shift and enter keys have the wrong size If I do not look at the keyboard, I get shift when I want <
awy 7y ago
Hello, author here. I actually brought a US keyboard which made life much easier. It was only ever a pain to type on the laptop's keyboard, which luckily was quite rare.
rkachowski 7y ago
I know a few german programmers that switch to uk/us layout specifically for access to braces + brackets. I actually use a german keyboard with UK layout myself, flipping between keyboard locales has become almost second nature and the physical letters upon the keys is more of a suggestion now
benhurmarcel 7y ago
If that's an issue you can even get your own programmable keyboard, so you configure the layout you want on it and don't have to change the computer's layout.

FabHK 7y ago

At any rate, learn to to touch type blind, and then switch to your preferred keyboard layout in software (and ignore what’s printed on the keys). My mom can do it; I’d expect any programmer to be able to do it.

lucb1e 7y ago
> and then switch to your preferred keyboard layout in software If only. They have a different shape shift and enter key. It's not impossible to type on different keyboards at home and at work without mixing it up too much, but it is annoying, and not just a software configuration. (Source: am Dutch, live in Germany, have different keyboards at home and at work because I don't want to throw one away when it still works fine even if it's a little annoying.)
bori5 7y ago
being able to program does not necessarily mean you can touch type blind
sfgweilr4f 7y ago
You can connect the two and infer interesting facts, but programming ability has nothing to do with blind touch typing. You can have zero skill in one and be great in the other. Yes I've met programmers who can't touch type. Their "hunt and peck" is faster than a lot of other people's touch typing. Programmers tend to have better typing skills in general than other people. But speed wise, real[1] touch typists leave general programmers[2] in the dust. This should not be a surprise. [1] Touch typists who are specialized for typing speed as first priority. This doesn't generally include programmers because they are specialized for programming and typing is really just a secondary skill in being able to use "a tool of trade". [2] Someone will now suggest that they happen to have practiced for a week and can beat everyone they know. Well done. Now you're still not a specialized touch typist... A real touch typist just needs to practice more and will still likely beat you. Or it could be argued they type faster due to characters/week.

cookie_monsta 7y ago

Is it not possible to BYO keyboard? This must be a productivity drag on a lot of people in similar situations

netsharc 7y ago
Geez, does he not know about software keyboard layouts? The hardware keyboard in front of me has German labels on most of the symbol keys, but I mostly set Windows to use the US keyboard layout and use my memory. Curly braces are a pain in the ass (and fingers) in the German layout, because one would have to press AltGr (the right Alt button) and 7 or 0 to get { or }. You end up holding right Alt with your thumb and needing to stretch to reach for 7. [ and ] is AltGr+8 and 9, and they're also both ergonomic disasters, because you have to tuck your thumb underneath your palm. Lastly, as he wrote, y and z are switched around on the German layout. An interesting quirk is that amayon.com and amayon.de redirect to Amazon, someone thought about all the suffering QWERTY expats.
- stkdump 7y ago
  Keyboards, if you don't have special requirements, are cheap and easy to get. I prefer using US layout keyboards everywhere, so I don't have to remember to ignore labels (such as the braces which are shifted by one place). Then using the layout US-international no dead keys.

dirkt 7y ago

> It's pretty common nowadays for developers to simply prefer the US layout if their country's is not great For a long time, I've been using a modifcation of the US layout with an additional modifier giving me äöüÄÜÖß in the places where they would be on a German keyboard. Works very well, as I need []{}\| much more frequently than the umlauts. And as it's a OS layout change, it works no matter if the physical keyboard has German or US layout.

Semaphor 7y ago
I use an adapted US-Intl layout that removes the deadkeys and Ctrl+Alt+o becomes ö (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+O Ö) and the same for the other Umlauts. Took some getting used to not doing "o for ö anymore, but it’s great for programming.

izolate 7y ago

A good company will honour your request for a specific keyboard layout. I've spent the majority of my working life in Europe and have always requested (and fortunately received) a US-layout keyboard at work.

benhurmarcel 7y ago
Given the price of a basic keyboard, it's not really a problem. Worst case you get your own.

benibela 7y ago

On the other hand, I can only work with the German layout after living in Germany too long I bought a refurbished, mechanical keyboard that was supposed to have the German layout, but it actually has the US layout, so I cannot use it. I have been planing to sell it. Anyone interested?

snypox 7y ago
As a hungarian, I use a US keyboard with hungarian layout for months. It's not a problem, just don't look at the keyboard.
- benibela 7y ago
  But the shift and enter keys have the wrong size If I do not look at the keyboard, I get shift when I want <

awy 7y ago

Hello, author here. I actually brought a US keyboard which made life much easier. It was only ever a pain to type on the laptop's keyboard, which luckily was quite rare.

rkachowski 7y ago

I know a few german programmers that switch to uk/us layout specifically for access to braces + brackets. I actually use a german keyboard with UK layout myself, flipping between keyboard locales has become almost second nature and the physical letters upon the keys is more of a suggestion now

benhurmarcel 7y ago

If that's an issue you can even get your own programmable keyboard, so you configure the layout you want on it and don't have to change the computer's layout.