5 ms·

No clue why you're being downvoted. I too wonder why anyone would want children if they don't actively want to spend time and raise them.

coldtea 7y ago
Raising children is not about being a helicopter parent like many Americans understand it. It wasn't even in the US like that, until the 80s or so, when media people and book authors inspired profitable guilt to parents, and the boomers started making pandering and spoiling their kids the norm. If we're talking about kids less than school age, then sure, parents are with them most of the day. After school age however, 1-2 hours per day with the kids is not "not spending time", it's rather more time than kids historically got. In fact most kids will turn out Deliverance-level weird if parents insist of spending more time with them. It's up there to messing up your kids with homeschooling... Kids are not there to keep parents company, or for them to make into your image. They are beings of their own, and have interests of their own, and they should be let to do their thing.
- kmarc 7y ago
  > it's rather more time than kids historically got. But... But... Any reference to this? All I can see here that some people think that "history" is how their great-grandparents were. No! After industrialization and urbanization, so less then a couple hundred years ago did humans start this new lifestyle. You don't even have to travel back in time, just travel to places where tribes and their commons are still around (to a certain extent). You will see, that "history" is far away from going to an office 9-5 and then spend 2 hours with your offsprings.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    If you check the people from the 15th century, 1950s villages, or even the "tribes" you mention, you'll find that the children are either helping (small tasks, actually working, after a certain still young age), hanging out with members of the community at large, or mostly playing around with other children. They don't hang out with the parents after a certain age, and they don't helicopter them...
    - kortilla 7y ago
      Most of the work children did was for the parents. That’s spending time with them.
      - raducu 7y ago
        That's neither, but it is better than what we have today, let me explain: I was raised by my grandparents in the countryside, the worst part was my parents randomly showing up every 2-3 weeks or so, letting me always longing for them. Now, as to the relationship with my grandparents, even if I was doing chores for 1 hour alone, it was no big deal at all, as long as I knew they were in close proximity or other significant adults were in close proximity. Again, what really sucked was when my grandparents were out in the fields in the summer until dusk and I didn't know when they would show up. As long as the child has ACCESS to the attention of significant adults, he can develop longer and longer duration of time when he doesn't really need the attention, it's absolutely normal and beneficial for the emotional development of the child to grow independent of significant adults, but the child absolutely needs to have a firm support base in significant adults and know he can rely for their support. Maybe it's my bad experience with overcrowded daycare/kindergarden, but educators there were absolutely not in the role as significant adults, maybe in places where there are more educators per child, better trained, they can take that role as a significant adult.
  - nl 7y ago
    Even in industrial society 2 hours is much more than people spent with their kids as recently as the 1960s. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-now-spend-twice-as-much-time-with-their-children-as-50-years-ago https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-... Grandparents etc were much more involved then compared to now.
- foolinaround 7y ago
  > It's up there to messing up your kids with homeschooling... Presumptuous much? Have you met a wide range of homeschooled kids?
nl 7y ago
It's being downvoted because it seems exactly like the kind of advice a non-parent gives to parents before they have to deal with the reality of the costs of children and how modern work is structured. It's unsympathetic, unhelpful, and doesn't sound like it's based on anything except the author's prejudices about how "things should be". Raising kids is hard. As other posters have pointed out it's at least partially wrong, too in the sense that historically non-parents were much more involved than they are now.
zmmmmm 7y ago
Please be kind in life. Can you understand the hurtful implications of your comment to the person you are talking about?
- Cougher 7y ago
  Sort of agree, but sometimes hard replies can be the slap-in-the-face that makes people rethink what they're doing. Someday these parents may look back on the lovely little people they created and remember how much effort they spent trying to avoid being around them.
  - javieranton 7y ago
    I am assuming you aren't a parent. We spent so much time with our daughter during her early years because we thought like you do. My wife didn't work, etc. Those were terror years. One day, my wife said she couldn't bear it anymore and asked that we bring her to the nursery for a few hours 1 day a week. My daughter LOVED IT. Her speech, everything about her development improved greatly. Every nursery day was the happiest day. She just wants to stay there and play. Now she goes twice per week. We wish she could go more often because it's great for her but we can't afford that
    - Cougher 7y ago
      You would assume wrong about me not being a parent and you also assume wrong that you "thought like [I] do] based on a few sentences on a public forum.
  - lordnacho 7y ago
    Don't think of it as "I don't want to be around my kids" but "My kids will develop better with other experiences than just me".
    - Cougher 7y ago
      I didn't say, nor did I imply either one of these statements in your false dichotomy.
lordnacho 7y ago
This is utterly ridiculous. You live in the same house as your kids, they can and do get a hold of you literally at any time of the day. Yes, even when they are in school, they can get the school to call you for some issue. To paint having 3 hours to yourself each schoolnight as somehow not wanting to be part of their lives is a cheap attempt at making people feel guilty.

coldtea 7y ago

Raising children is not about being a helicopter parent like many Americans understand it. It wasn't even in the US like that, until the 80s or so, when media people and book authors inspired profitable guilt to parents, and the boomers started making pandering and spoiling their kids the norm. If we're talking about kids less than school age, then sure, parents are with them most of the day. After school age however, 1-2 hours per day with the kids is not "not spending time", it's rather more time than kids historically got. In fact most kids will turn out Deliverance-level weird if parents insist of spending more time with them. It's up there to messing up your kids with homeschooling... Kids are not there to keep parents company, or for them to make into your image. They are beings of their own, and have interests of their own, and they should be let to do their thing.

kmarc 7y ago
> it's rather more time than kids historically got. But... But... Any reference to this? All I can see here that some people think that "history" is how their great-grandparents were. No! After industrialization and urbanization, so less then a couple hundred years ago did humans start this new lifestyle. You don't even have to travel back in time, just travel to places where tribes and their commons are still around (to a certain extent). You will see, that "history" is far away from going to an office 9-5 and then spend 2 hours with your offsprings.
- coldtea 7y ago
  If you check the people from the 15th century, 1950s villages, or even the "tribes" you mention, you'll find that the children are either helping (small tasks, actually working, after a certain still young age), hanging out with members of the community at large, or mostly playing around with other children. They don't hang out with the parents after a certain age, and they don't helicopter them...
  - kortilla 7y ago
    Most of the work children did was for the parents. That’s spending time with them.
    - raducu 7y ago
      That's neither, but it is better than what we have today, let me explain: I was raised by my grandparents in the countryside, the worst part was my parents randomly showing up every 2-3 weeks or so, letting me always longing for them. Now, as to the relationship with my grandparents, even if I was doing chores for 1 hour alone, it was no big deal at all, as long as I knew they were in close proximity or other significant adults were in close proximity. Again, what really sucked was when my grandparents were out in the fields in the summer until dusk and I didn't know when they would show up. As long as the child has ACCESS to the attention of significant adults, he can develop longer and longer duration of time when he doesn't really need the attention, it's absolutely normal and beneficial for the emotional development of the child to grow independent of significant adults, but the child absolutely needs to have a firm support base in significant adults and know he can rely for their support. Maybe it's my bad experience with overcrowded daycare/kindergarden, but educators there were absolutely not in the role as significant adults, maybe in places where there are more educators per child, better trained, they can take that role as a significant adult.
- nl 7y ago
  Even in industrial society 2 hours is much more than people spent with their kids as recently as the 1960s. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-now-spend-twice-as-much-time-with-their-children-as-50-years-ago https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-... Grandparents etc were much more involved then compared to now.
foolinaround 7y ago
> It's up there to messing up your kids with homeschooling... Presumptuous much? Have you met a wide range of homeschooled kids?

nl 7y ago

It's being downvoted because it seems exactly like the kind of advice a non-parent gives to parents before they have to deal with the reality of the costs of children and how modern work is structured. It's unsympathetic, unhelpful, and doesn't sound like it's based on anything except the author's prejudices about how "things should be". Raising kids is hard. As other posters have pointed out it's at least partially wrong, too in the sense that historically non-parents were much more involved than they are now.

zmmmmm 7y ago

Please be kind in life. Can you understand the hurtful implications of your comment to the person you are talking about?

Cougher 7y ago
Sort of agree, but sometimes hard replies can be the slap-in-the-face that makes people rethink what they're doing. Someday these parents may look back on the lovely little people they created and remember how much effort they spent trying to avoid being around them.
- javieranton 7y ago
  I am assuming you aren't a parent. We spent so much time with our daughter during her early years because we thought like you do. My wife didn't work, etc. Those were terror years. One day, my wife said she couldn't bear it anymore and asked that we bring her to the nursery for a few hours 1 day a week. My daughter LOVED IT. Her speech, everything about her development improved greatly. Every nursery day was the happiest day. She just wants to stay there and play. Now she goes twice per week. We wish she could go more often because it's great for her but we can't afford that
  - Cougher 7y ago
    You would assume wrong about me not being a parent and you also assume wrong that you "thought like [I] do] based on a few sentences on a public forum.
- lordnacho 7y ago
  Don't think of it as "I don't want to be around my kids" but "My kids will develop better with other experiences than just me".
  - Cougher 7y ago
    I didn't say, nor did I imply either one of these statements in your false dichotomy.

lordnacho 7y ago

This is utterly ridiculous. You live in the same house as your kids, they can and do get a hold of you literally at any time of the day. Yes, even when they are in school, they can get the school to call you for some issue. To paint having 3 hours to yourself each schoolnight as somehow not wanting to be part of their lives is a cheap attempt at making people feel guilty.