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Discriminatory pricing feels nasty when you're get the short end of the stick but any pricing scheme will have bias. Having a high wage earner pay the same fare

Discriminatory pricing feels nasty when you're get the short end of the stick but any pricing scheme will have bias. Having a high wage earner pay the same fare for a service as a low wage earner gives a much better deal to the wealthier person. (In Finland traffic tickets are calculated as a percentage of your income) In many countries you will pay a surcharge if merchants think that you are wealthier since it implies a greater ability to pay. (Bulk discounts are not universal) The point where a flexible price structure becomes a problem is where price gauging is being practiced to take advantage of people in a bind.

suyash 7y ago
Finland traffic tickets sounds like a horrible idea.
- 4lejandrito 7y ago
  Sounds good to me. The rich is as afraid of getting a fine as the poor one. Otherwise rich people just wouldn't care. It is true that a score based system with no money involved would be equally useful but I guess people fear more about their money.
  - mertd 7y ago
    This is a great idea and also is nearly impossible to implement. There is no way to tell how wealthy someone is and even then how much of that wealth is liquid.
    - distances 7y ago
      It's not based on wealth but rather income, and the state obviously has this data readily at hand due to taxation. I don't see any reason why that couldn't and shouldn't be adopted all over the world.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- nannal 7y ago
  Why? If I'm a poor speeding Fin, then a non-scaled speeding ticket could cost me a good number of days food. If I'm a rich speeding Fin then a non-scaled ticket is just the cost to travel quickly. When you're wealthy enough fines don't matter there's no point in the police enforcing them aside from as an additional income stream.
  - suyash 7y ago
    Best way to make Rich people move out of Finland, result in loosing tax base, jobs (businesses) etc
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      You're confusing rich people with assholes, losing assholes is not an issue.
    - cortesoft 7y ago
      Rich people are going to leave Finland because they aren't allowed to drive recklessly with no real consequence? Well, then maybe they should leave.
      - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
        If they drive the same way as everyone else (i.e. mostly following the spirit of the law but nobody's perfect) and then get hit with a colossal fine over a minor violation, yeah, that's the sort of thing that causes people to do the math on living somewhere else.
        TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
        But it's relatively only as colossal to them as it would be to anyone else.
        AnthonyMouse 7y ago
        A million dollars to a millionaire is still a million dollars. The net present cost of moving might increase with wealth, but it doesn't increase linearly. It might cost a millionaire $200,000 instead of the $50,000 it would for someone in the middle class, but they also have the $200,000, and if you would fine them $1,000,000 instead of $1000 then threshold exceeded.
- input_sh 7y ago
  Yes, because it's really fair for both a billionaire and someone living on 40k a year to pay the same price (let's say 2k) for a speeding ticket. Both of those people will be impacted accordingly I'm sure.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    there are less than three thousand billionaires in the whole world. they could all drive like it was a formula 1 grand prix 24/7 and it would create a barely measurable blip in traffic fatalities. somewhere between ten and fifteen percent of americans are driving without insurance. I'm a lot more worried about them than the one lambo I see every couple months.
    - input_sh 7y ago
      Where did I claim you're more likely to get in a car accident with a billionaire? There should be a punishment for traffic violations big enough to discourage the offender from repeating it. Since a couple of thousands will not cause such an effect on an ultra rich person, the punishment should be calculated in such a way that it actually does. Calculating it based off of income achieves just that.
      - leetcrew 7y ago
        what I'm saying is that it just doesn't matter how billionaires drive (on the rare occasion they even drive their own vehicle). billionaires speeding does not meaningfully affect your safety on the road. hitting them with a huge fine just indulges your jealousy.
        dzamie 7y ago
        Y'know, you're right that billionaires speeding doesn't affect people who aren't near those billionaires. To wit, here's an idea for a change: Billionaires should be allowed to speed wherever they are not, because then their speeding won't affect the people there. However, if a billionaire is found to be in the area they're speeding, they get hit with a scaling ticket, because their speeding does affect people around them.
- spats1990 7y ago
  Could you expand on why you think so? 1. I'm driving at 110 kph when the limit is 100. I pay $80, but I got paid $16000 after tax this month. 2. I'm driving at 110 kph when the limit is 100. I pay $80, but I got paid $4000 after tax this month. Fair?
  - umvi 7y ago
    Yes, that's fair. Please explain why you believe it is not fair. 1. I'm climbing a tree when I ought not to and fall and break my legs. I'm a poor construction worker which means I am now out of work. 2. I'm climbing a tree when I ought not to and fall and break my legs. I'm a wealthy programmer and just keep on going to work since my hands and brain still work fine. Fair? Or should the tree break my hands and give me a concussion on the way down in order to level the playing field?
    - Baltasaur 7y ago
      This is such a colossally bad take. Tickets have the distinct purpose of disincentivizing dangerous driving. They don't do that if it's a flat fare and the person breaking the speed limit is sufficiently wealthy. Thus, if you want speeding tickets to affect everyone equally, you make them proportional.
      - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        >his is such a colossally bad take. Tickets have the distinct purpose of disincentivizing dangerous driving. Tickets are never treated as a revenue stream by state and local governments. /s
      - umvi 7y ago
        The fee is only one aspect of the ticket. The other aspect is demerits on your license which go toward revoking it. Dangerous driving is discouraged by the threat of getting your license revoked, not by getting a fine. Speeding tickets do affect everyone equally, by applying the same number of demerits toward revocation of the license. Hence why rich people don't drive like maniacs even though they can "afford" to from a purely monetary standpoint.
- cortic 7y ago
  I think it sounds like a great idea, admittedly though it is difficult for me to get my head around a system that isn't unfairly gracious to the wealthy and vicious to the poor.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  All the people replying to you seem to be under the assumption that speed limits generally reflect the speeds most people find reasonable to drive in clear conditions. This is a very naive assumption to put it mildly. That said, as someone who drives vehicles that don't exactly project an image of wealth I'd be perfectly happy with a scaled fine system since rather than getting singled out a fishing stop as a result of going 5-over in a shit car I would be more likely to be ignored in favor of someone who appears more likely to pay a larger fine.
- dboreham 7y ago
  UK had the same speeding ticket fine based on income years ago. Not sure if they still do.
- FabHK 7y ago
  Many European jurisdictions have this, a so-called day-fine. It’s a just fine, and just fine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine

suyash 7y ago

Finland traffic tickets sounds like a horrible idea.

4lejandrito 7y ago
Sounds good to me. The rich is as afraid of getting a fine as the poor one. Otherwise rich people just wouldn't care. It is true that a score based system with no money involved would be equally useful but I guess people fear more about their money.
- mertd 7y ago
  This is a great idea and also is nearly impossible to implement. There is no way to tell how wealthy someone is and even then how much of that wealth is liquid.
  - distances 7y ago
    It's not based on wealth but rather income, and the state obviously has this data readily at hand due to taxation. I don't see any reason why that couldn't and shouldn't be adopted all over the world.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
nannal 7y ago
Why? If I'm a poor speeding Fin, then a non-scaled speeding ticket could cost me a good number of days food. If I'm a rich speeding Fin then a non-scaled ticket is just the cost to travel quickly. When you're wealthy enough fines don't matter there's no point in the police enforcing them aside from as an additional income stream.
- suyash 7y ago
  Best way to make Rich people move out of Finland, result in loosing tax base, jobs (businesses) etc
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    You're confusing rich people with assholes, losing assholes is not an issue.
  - cortesoft 7y ago
    Rich people are going to leave Finland because they aren't allowed to drive recklessly with no real consequence? Well, then maybe they should leave.
    - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
      If they drive the same way as everyone else (i.e. mostly following the spirit of the law but nobody's perfect) and then get hit with a colossal fine over a minor violation, yeah, that's the sort of thing that causes people to do the math on living somewhere else.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
        But it's relatively only as colossal to them as it would be to anyone else.
        AnthonyMouse 7y ago
        A million dollars to a millionaire is still a million dollars. The net present cost of moving might increase with wealth, but it doesn't increase linearly. It might cost a millionaire $200,000 instead of the $50,000 it would for someone in the middle class, but they also have the $200,000, and if you would fine them $1,000,000 instead of $1000 then threshold exceeded.
input_sh 7y ago
Yes, because it's really fair for both a billionaire and someone living on 40k a year to pay the same price (let's say 2k) for a speeding ticket. Both of those people will be impacted accordingly I'm sure.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- leetcrew 7y ago
  there are less than three thousand billionaires in the whole world. they could all drive like it was a formula 1 grand prix 24/7 and it would create a barely measurable blip in traffic fatalities. somewhere between ten and fifteen percent of americans are driving without insurance. I'm a lot more worried about them than the one lambo I see every couple months.
  - input_sh 7y ago
    Where did I claim you're more likely to get in a car accident with a billionaire? There should be a punishment for traffic violations big enough to discourage the offender from repeating it. Since a couple of thousands will not cause such an effect on an ultra rich person, the punishment should be calculated in such a way that it actually does. Calculating it based off of income achieves just that.
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      what I'm saying is that it just doesn't matter how billionaires drive (on the rare occasion they even drive their own vehicle). billionaires speeding does not meaningfully affect your safety on the road. hitting them with a huge fine just indulges your jealousy.
      - dzamie 7y ago
        Y'know, you're right that billionaires speeding doesn't affect people who aren't near those billionaires. To wit, here's an idea for a change: Billionaires should be allowed to speed wherever they are not, because then their speeding won't affect the people there. However, if a billionaire is found to be in the area they're speeding, they get hit with a scaling ticket, because their speeding does affect people around them.
spats1990 7y ago
Could you expand on why you think so? 1. I'm driving at 110 kph when the limit is 100. I pay $80, but I got paid $16000 after tax this month. 2. I'm driving at 110 kph when the limit is 100. I pay $80, but I got paid $4000 after tax this month. Fair?
- umvi 7y ago
  Yes, that's fair. Please explain why you believe it is not fair. 1. I'm climbing a tree when I ought not to and fall and break my legs. I'm a poor construction worker which means I am now out of work. 2. I'm climbing a tree when I ought not to and fall and break my legs. I'm a wealthy programmer and just keep on going to work since my hands and brain still work fine. Fair? Or should the tree break my hands and give me a concussion on the way down in order to level the playing field?
  - Baltasaur 7y ago
    This is such a colossally bad take. Tickets have the distinct purpose of disincentivizing dangerous driving. They don't do that if it's a flat fare and the person breaking the speed limit is sufficiently wealthy. Thus, if you want speeding tickets to affect everyone equally, you make them proportional.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      >his is such a colossally bad take. Tickets have the distinct purpose of disincentivizing dangerous driving. Tickets are never treated as a revenue stream by state and local governments. /s
    - umvi 7y ago
      The fee is only one aspect of the ticket. The other aspect is demerits on your license which go toward revoking it. Dangerous driving is discouraged by the threat of getting your license revoked, not by getting a fine. Speeding tickets do affect everyone equally, by applying the same number of demerits toward revocation of the license. Hence why rich people don't drive like maniacs even though they can "afford" to from a purely monetary standpoint.
cortic 7y ago
I think it sounds like a great idea, admittedly though it is difficult for me to get my head around a system that isn't unfairly gracious to the wealthy and vicious to the poor.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
All the people replying to you seem to be under the assumption that speed limits generally reflect the speeds most people find reasonable to drive in clear conditions. This is a very naive assumption to put it mildly. That said, as someone who drives vehicles that don't exactly project an image of wealth I'd be perfectly happy with a scaled fine system since rather than getting singled out a fishing stop as a result of going 5-over in a shit car I would be more likely to be ignored in favor of someone who appears more likely to pay a larger fine.
dboreham 7y ago
UK had the same speeding ticket fine based on income years ago. Not sure if they still do.
FabHK 7y ago
Many European jurisdictions have this, a so-called day-fine. It’s a just fine, and just fine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine