7 ms·

When I was living in the PNW and realized I direly needed gloves, I just hit up a few of the department stores downtown until I found some that met my criteria.

When I was living in the PNW and realized I direly needed gloves, I just hit up a few of the department stores downtown until I found some that met my criteria. Which are probably similar to those of this author, I wanted some that looked cute, had a conductive patch on the finger so I could use my phone without taking them off, would fit on my long hands with long fingernails, and weren’t super expensive gloves designed for arctic expeditions. I could see them in person and make choices based on how their build quality felt. I think my total time, including the bus rides downtown and back (even though I was probably doing other things downtown on that trip like “working”), was probably less than she spent opening ten thousand different tabs in her search for The Perfect Glove. And then in a couple years I had to do it again because I could only find one of the gloves when it started to be too cold for bare hands again. It ain’t worth investing a ton of time into picking gloves or umbrellas or other things that tend to get lost or separated. Shopping for physical goods on the Internet sucks.

ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago
Definitely. Shops have limited inventory so they will tend to sell a well rounded, well made product (depends on store of course). And if it is junk, you can usually tell in person.
paulcole 7y ago
You're talking about a pretty specific type of physical goods that have to fit properly and meet your requirements for aesthetics, quality, and function. Buying physical commodities or items where those factors don't matter on the Internet is incredible. I don't have to go anywhere, I don't have to talk to anyone, I don't have to lug anything anywhere, etc.
- cgriswald 7y ago
  What are you buying that quality and function don't matter? I expect quality and function even in something as basic as toilet paper. It used to be I could find a brand and type that I liked, and then order it over the internet, often in bulk since it stores without really going bad. But now, I can't be sure I'll even get the genuine product from ahemazon certain vendors.
  - killface 7y ago
    online shopping !== amazon
- egypturnash 7y ago
  Did you read the article or go straight to the comments? I’m talking about buying the exact same thing the article used as an example. I think that’s a fair thing to contrast with its thesis that “all shopping sucks now”. She had a terrible time spending days researching the Perfect Pair Of Gloves online, going to the one “big box” store in her area that had supposedly had it, and going back home ungloved instead of looking at other stores when the one store had no gloves in stock that day. I had a perfectly fine time going downtown when I was probably going there for some other reasons already and visiting a couple of stores looking for some Okay Gloves.
  - paulcole 7y ago
    Your comment violates HN guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html To promote quality discourse, I will not reply. Feel free to edit and re-submit.
jkhwleroiu 7y ago
The problem is that even in big cities, real world shops are disappearing. This year I wanted to buy a TV, and wanted to see them in real life to judge colors/brightness levels, and shockingly, in London, I found just one place which had like 10 TVs from the leading brands. I'm sure there are a few more, but I wasn't able to locate them using google, or walking the main shopping streets. I remember shops 10 years ago which had acres of electronics (albeit in a different country).
- papreclip 7y ago
  Brick and mortar shops can't stop you from coming in and finding the perfect item, then buying it online to save money. I bought an office chair recently and didn't feel confident picking one without trying chairs out in person. The chair I settled on was $100 cheaper online
  - jkhwleroiu 7y ago
    I wouldn't mind paying a few pounds for them to let me browse the products. Maybe this is a viable business model.
    - lifeformed 7y ago
      Maybe they can offer a super wide selection available to see, since they don't need to carry stock. And perhaps you can order from them if you like it, and they run an online store where they ship it from, and you get your $10 back as a discount.
      - sxates 7y ago
        This is basically describing the Amazon stores.
    - paggle 7y ago
      Another approach is the manufacturer showroom. They don't care where you buy it so they just try to induce the demand.
smacktoward 7y ago
I think the key to the article can be found in this passage: > [T]he problem is that now, somewhat suddenly, perfect knowledge of the perfect glove, for you specifically, exists, if you simply do enough research. When you're shopping in a physical store, you have no expectation that you're going to find the absolute, one-and-only perfect glove (or whatever) in the world for you. Even in the largest stores, you understand that their shelf space is limited, and therefore you set your expectations not to find the absolute, one-and-only perfect glove in the world for you, but to find a glove that's good enough for your needs. As long as you can find something that meets your requirements at an acceptable cost, you come away satisfied. Maybe not thrilled, but satisfied. The infinite variety of online shopping tells us to set our expectations higher than that. Suddenly every thing we buy has to be the perfect version of that thing for us -- because if it isn't, that means we are lazy dullards who lacked the research skills and/or wherewithal to go out and find the perfect version. Instead of it being the fault of the shop that we had to settle for good enough, suddenly it's our fault. The only way out of this trap is to realize that there is no such thing as the perfect product, that even the works of the finest craftspeople are going to have flaws and blemishes on them, and that good enough really is, you know, good enough. Or, in other words, that happiness is not a glove that you can buy.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  I think your comment makes really excellent points. This line: > The infinite variety of online shopping tells us to set our expectations higher than that. made me think a bit -- that used to be true for me, but the effect is trending in the opposite direction now. I have learned that it's very nearly impossible to tell if a product being shown is actually any good or not unless I'm already familiar with that company's products, regardless of what the product listing or product reviews say.
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    Being overwhelmed with choice is known as analysis paralysis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis https://xkcd.com/1801/ https://xkcd.com/1801/
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
I think this might be the key. It's not that the internet provides too wide a selection, it's that it fails to provide some very basic pieces of information. How does the product feel in your hand? Is it soft? Does it feel durable? Does the stitching look neat, or haphazard and frizzy? When we evaluate a product in person, we make all of these assessments without even thinking about them.
- killface 7y ago
  It's also that dishonesty goes unpunished. Any semi-sentient slime mold can set up a new business with FBA and do the same shitty shopping practices. They'll make enough before they're found out. It's also why every product is like 4.5 stars -- they just astroturf the reviews by giving away product.
vector_spaces 7y ago
I feel this so much. Sometimes I'll look up objects I've bought in brick & mortar stores that I've been completely happy with, and find that they have dismal reviews. This is why for certain items I make a conscious effort to not bother looking at the reviews. Even if it were possible for me to find the best doormat, it simply wouldn't be worth the time, labor, and emotional energy of sifting through reviews and forums and blog posts, and discerning fake reviews and influencer marketing and people who have different requirements and expectations than me, and product SKUs that have changed since reviews/posts/whatever were written. As an aside: I'd love to find the best cat wand toy. I've tried hundreds from pretty much all the major eCommerce sites and they all suck. If someone knows of one that won't break immediately I'd be willing to pay top dollar for it. But yeah, unfortunately as other commenters have pointed out, in small towns and even where I am in Albuquerque, brick & mortar stores are either disappearing or aggressively shifting their business to the internet, so it's becoming more and more unavoidable to come into contact with reviews and whatnot even for relatively basic items.
- Stratoscope 7y ago
  > I'd love to find the best cat wand toy. I don't know if there is a best one, but after trying several, my cats found one they really like: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01ANUU12I/ https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01ANUU12I/ We got this expansion kit to go with it: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00UZK5WQC/ https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00UZK5WQC/ One nice thing about this wand is that it has three telescoping sections, so the tip section is thin and wiggly. It's so wiggly that the cats learned to use it on their own! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rROBUDPYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rROBUDPYI
- egypturnash 7y ago
  Go outside and find a reasonably solid stick, clean it up a bit, and take the cord and toy off of one of your broken cat wands. Or visit the hardware store and get a reasonably solid dowel and do the same. It won’t be The Best but it will have a much lower carbon footprint than buying another plastic one made in China, shipped across the ocean, and then shipped around three or four times while people try to arbitrage costs between major e-commerce sites. And if you have any kind of mystical bent then it can also have the bonus of being charged with you thinking about how much you love your little mouse-murderer, and that will make it far better than any mass-produced toy.
oxipital 7y ago
What's interesting is your second time around was probably faster because your research from the first round could have altered the second round of choosing gloves.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Shopping for physical goods in B&M stores sucks. After the last few decades of recessions, stores have gradually dropped their inventory of goods for anybody outside the meat of the bell curve. I will shop for things for months just to buy local and end up buying online because nobody will carry what I want or will fit.
qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
At Sam's Club today, eyeing a watch. Waiting for associate to let me see it. Open Amazon, read reviews. Over $20 less on Amazon. Asked if Sam's price matches. > No. In two taps, right in front of her, ordered it. Said she understood. Thanked her for showing it to me.
- C14L 7y ago
  You being able to see and touch it costs money. The time of the employee who showed it to you costs money.
- egypturnash 7y ago
  Dude, that’s a total dick move. Is twenty bucks really that precious to you that you’ll throw money out of your local economy into Bezos’ pockets? Right in front of someone who just helped you decide this is the watch you wanted and could have put it in your hands right now instead of waiting for shipping in the middle of the super-busy Christmas season and hoping it’s not gonna end up be a counterfeit copy?
  - advarckcal 7y ago
    And the Walton family needs another buck? I don't think Sam's club is any better for the local economy then amazon.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Why didn't you give her a tip?
riversflow 7y ago
Ironically, having size 12 hands, I’ve looked for years for winter gloves that fit in person, and only very recently was able to find gloves that actually fit. Meanwhile I can order work gloves in size 12 from Amazon all day long. So kinda the opposite experience.
Fr0styMatt88 7y ago
Many many times I've consciously thought "I'm going to give retail a chance!" and go out of my way to find something at a physical store. Often it's because I might want it that day; sometimes I've just wanted to explore. Yet I always end up wasting many hours. I can't drive, so it's public transport and walking everywhere for me (that's fine, it just adds to the time). My experience has been that if you know exactly what you want and it's anything slightly off the beaten path, you're going to have a hard time finding a store that will stock it. Recent examples that come to mind: a certain kind of USB cable, an SSD, musician's earplugs, an induction cooker. Plus almost any book that I want. This year was the first year that I've done the majority of my Christmas shopping online (I actually managed to get to it early enough!). It's been hands-down the best experience I've had Christmas shopping. Not to mention that I haven't had that Mariah Carey Christmas song shoved down my ears this year as a result :) Physical stores just can't compete for certain kinds of shoppers. Also, I hear so much about physical stores treating their employees like shit. Primary examples include GameStop and EB Games. When I think of that, I think that some stores deserve to fail.
- vineyardmike 7y ago
  > physical stores treating their employees like shit Wait until you hear about amazon.
lonelappde 7y ago
You can buy duplicates of a consumable.
esotericn 7y ago
Well, _my_ winter gloves have a karabiner on them. I shall call them The Best Gloves. </snark>

ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago

Definitely. Shops have limited inventory so they will tend to sell a well rounded, well made product (depends on store of course). And if it is junk, you can usually tell in person.

paulcole 7y ago

You're talking about a pretty specific type of physical goods that have to fit properly and meet your requirements for aesthetics, quality, and function. Buying physical commodities or items where those factors don't matter on the Internet is incredible. I don't have to go anywhere, I don't have to talk to anyone, I don't have to lug anything anywhere, etc.

cgriswald 7y ago
What are you buying that quality and function don't matter? I expect quality and function even in something as basic as toilet paper. It used to be I could find a brand and type that I liked, and then order it over the internet, often in bulk since it stores without really going bad. But now, I can't be sure I'll even get the genuine product from ahemazon certain vendors.
- killface 7y ago
  online shopping !== amazon
egypturnash 7y ago
Did you read the article or go straight to the comments? I’m talking about buying the exact same thing the article used as an example. I think that’s a fair thing to contrast with its thesis that “all shopping sucks now”. She had a terrible time spending days researching the Perfect Pair Of Gloves online, going to the one “big box” store in her area that had supposedly had it, and going back home ungloved instead of looking at other stores when the one store had no gloves in stock that day. I had a perfectly fine time going downtown when I was probably going there for some other reasons already and visiting a couple of stores looking for some Okay Gloves.
- paulcole 7y ago
  Your comment violates HN guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html To promote quality discourse, I will not reply. Feel free to edit and re-submit.

jkhwleroiu 7y ago

The problem is that even in big cities, real world shops are disappearing. This year I wanted to buy a TV, and wanted to see them in real life to judge colors/brightness levels, and shockingly, in London, I found just one place which had like 10 TVs from the leading brands. I'm sure there are a few more, but I wasn't able to locate them using google, or walking the main shopping streets. I remember shops 10 years ago which had acres of electronics (albeit in a different country).

papreclip 7y ago
Brick and mortar shops can't stop you from coming in and finding the perfect item, then buying it online to save money. I bought an office chair recently and didn't feel confident picking one without trying chairs out in person. The chair I settled on was $100 cheaper online
- jkhwleroiu 7y ago
  I wouldn't mind paying a few pounds for them to let me browse the products. Maybe this is a viable business model.
  - lifeformed 7y ago
    Maybe they can offer a super wide selection available to see, since they don't need to carry stock. And perhaps you can order from them if you like it, and they run an online store where they ship it from, and you get your $10 back as a discount.
    - sxates 7y ago
      This is basically describing the Amazon stores.
  - paggle 7y ago
    Another approach is the manufacturer showroom. They don't care where you buy it so they just try to induce the demand.

smacktoward 7y ago

I think the key to the article can be found in this passage: > [T]he problem is that now, somewhat suddenly, perfect knowledge of the perfect glove, for you specifically, exists, if you simply do enough research. When you're shopping in a physical store, you have no expectation that you're going to find the absolute, one-and-only perfect glove (or whatever) in the world for you. Even in the largest stores, you understand that their shelf space is limited, and therefore you set your expectations not to find the absolute, one-and-only perfect glove in the world for you, but to find a glove that's good enough for your needs. As long as you can find something that meets your requirements at an acceptable cost, you come away satisfied. Maybe not thrilled, but satisfied. The infinite variety of online shopping tells us to set our expectations higher than that. Suddenly every thing we buy has to be the perfect version of that thing for us -- because if it isn't, that means we are lazy dullards who lacked the research skills and/or wherewithal to go out and find the perfect version. Instead of it being the fault of the shop that we had to settle for good enough, suddenly it's our fault. The only way out of this trap is to realize that there is no such thing as the perfect product, that even the works of the finest craftspeople are going to have flaws and blemishes on them, and that good enough really is, you know, good enough. Or, in other words, that happiness is not a glove that you can buy.

JohnFen 7y ago
I think your comment makes really excellent points. This line: > The infinite variety of online shopping tells us to set our expectations higher than that. made me think a bit -- that used to be true for me, but the effect is trending in the opposite direction now. I have learned that it's very nearly impossible to tell if a product being shown is actually any good or not unless I'm already familiar with that company's products, regardless of what the product listing or product reviews say.
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  Being overwhelmed with choice is known as analysis paralysis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis https://xkcd.com/1801/ https://xkcd.com/1801/

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

I think this might be the key. It's not that the internet provides too wide a selection, it's that it fails to provide some very basic pieces of information. How does the product feel in your hand? Is it soft? Does it feel durable? Does the stitching look neat, or haphazard and frizzy? When we evaluate a product in person, we make all of these assessments without even thinking about them.

killface 7y ago
It's also that dishonesty goes unpunished. Any semi-sentient slime mold can set up a new business with FBA and do the same shitty shopping practices. They'll make enough before they're found out. It's also why every product is like 4.5 stars -- they just astroturf the reviews by giving away product.

vector_spaces 7y ago

I feel this so much. Sometimes I'll look up objects I've bought in brick & mortar stores that I've been completely happy with, and find that they have dismal reviews. This is why for certain items I make a conscious effort to not bother looking at the reviews. Even if it were possible for me to find the best doormat, it simply wouldn't be worth the time, labor, and emotional energy of sifting through reviews and forums and blog posts, and discerning fake reviews and influencer marketing and people who have different requirements and expectations than me, and product SKUs that have changed since reviews/posts/whatever were written. As an aside: I'd love to find the best cat wand toy. I've tried hundreds from pretty much all the major eCommerce sites and they all suck. If someone knows of one that won't break immediately I'd be willing to pay top dollar for it. But yeah, unfortunately as other commenters have pointed out, in small towns and even where I am in Albuquerque, brick & mortar stores are either disappearing or aggressively shifting their business to the internet, so it's becoming more and more unavoidable to come into contact with reviews and whatnot even for relatively basic items.

Stratoscope 7y ago
> I'd love to find the best cat wand toy. I don't know if there is a best one, but after trying several, my cats found one they really like: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01ANUU12I/ https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01ANUU12I/ We got this expansion kit to go with it: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00UZK5WQC/ https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00UZK5WQC/ One nice thing about this wand is that it has three telescoping sections, so the tip section is thin and wiggly. It's so wiggly that the cats learned to use it on their own! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rROBUDPYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rROBUDPYI
egypturnash 7y ago
Go outside and find a reasonably solid stick, clean it up a bit, and take the cord and toy off of one of your broken cat wands. Or visit the hardware store and get a reasonably solid dowel and do the same. It won’t be The Best but it will have a much lower carbon footprint than buying another plastic one made in China, shipped across the ocean, and then shipped around three or four times while people try to arbitrage costs between major e-commerce sites. And if you have any kind of mystical bent then it can also have the bonus of being charged with you thinking about how much you love your little mouse-murderer, and that will make it far better than any mass-produced toy.

oxipital 7y ago

What's interesting is your second time around was probably faster because your research from the first round could have altered the second round of choosing gloves.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

Shopping for physical goods in B&M stores sucks. After the last few decades of recessions, stores have gradually dropped their inventory of goods for anybody outside the meat of the bell curve. I will shop for things for months just to buy local and end up buying online because nobody will carry what I want or will fit.

qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago

At Sam's Club today, eyeing a watch. Waiting for associate to let me see it. Open Amazon, read reviews. Over $20 less on Amazon. Asked if Sam's price matches. > No. In two taps, right in front of her, ordered it. Said she understood. Thanked her for showing it to me.

C14L 7y ago
You being able to see and touch it costs money. The time of the employee who showed it to you costs money.
egypturnash 7y ago
Dude, that’s a total dick move. Is twenty bucks really that precious to you that you’ll throw money out of your local economy into Bezos’ pockets? Right in front of someone who just helped you decide this is the watch you wanted and could have put it in your hands right now instead of waiting for shipping in the middle of the super-busy Christmas season and hoping it’s not gonna end up be a counterfeit copy?
- advarckcal 7y ago
  And the Walton family needs another buck? I don't think Sam's club is any better for the local economy then amazon.
lonelappde 7y ago
Why didn't you give her a tip?

riversflow 7y ago

Ironically, having size 12 hands, I’ve looked for years for winter gloves that fit in person, and only very recently was able to find gloves that actually fit. Meanwhile I can order work gloves in size 12 from Amazon all day long. So kinda the opposite experience.

Fr0styMatt88 7y ago

Many many times I've consciously thought "I'm going to give retail a chance!" and go out of my way to find something at a physical store. Often it's because I might want it that day; sometimes I've just wanted to explore. Yet I always end up wasting many hours. I can't drive, so it's public transport and walking everywhere for me (that's fine, it just adds to the time). My experience has been that if you know exactly what you want and it's anything slightly off the beaten path, you're going to have a hard time finding a store that will stock it. Recent examples that come to mind: a certain kind of USB cable, an SSD, musician's earplugs, an induction cooker. Plus almost any book that I want. This year was the first year that I've done the majority of my Christmas shopping online (I actually managed to get to it early enough!). It's been hands-down the best experience I've had Christmas shopping. Not to mention that I haven't had that Mariah Carey Christmas song shoved down my ears this year as a result :) Physical stores just can't compete for certain kinds of shoppers. Also, I hear so much about physical stores treating their employees like shit. Primary examples include GameStop and EB Games. When I think of that, I think that some stores deserve to fail.

vineyardmike 7y ago
> physical stores treating their employees like shit Wait until you hear about amazon.

lonelappde 7y ago

You can buy duplicates of a consumable.

esotericn 7y ago

Well, _my_ winter gloves have a karabiner on them. I shall call them The Best Gloves. </snark>