9 ms·
VirtualBox 6.1
- MaupitiBlue 7y agoIf only they could come up with a WSL2 Hyper-V workaround.
- pdfbadforunicod 7y agoCan you clarify what you mean?
- Karunamon 7y agoI believe the problem is that if you're running WSL2, you're automatically running Hyper-V, which monopolizes hardware virtualization on the machine, so you can't run VirtualBox, VMware, etc.
- wbl 7y agoWait, it's not a kernel personality anymore?
- resoluteteeth 7y agoWSL2 now uses an actual virtualized linux kernel because the performance and compatibility are both better.
- skrebbel 7y agoI'm confused how the performance can be better. There's two competing kernels that both think they're running the system, how can that not be slower than mapping some POSIX calls over? I mean I trust that it's true, and I'd love to understand why :D
- simcop2387 7y agoIt's because there's some serious mismatches in how a lot of the APIs work that causes it. Raw compute performance is slightly slower this way, but the better match for IO and other systems make the overall performance and experience much much better in the end.
- mixmastamyk 7y agoThat's odd because NT debuted with a Posix "personality," so it must have been taken into account with the original design. Processor independence was another goal, though abandoned for a long time. In other words, they should have taken this into account unless the personality thing was just for show.
- zerkten 7y agoThis is covered in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_POSIX_subsystem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_POSIX_subsystem. Version history: The POSIX subsystem was replaced in Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 by "Windows Services for UNIX", (SFU) which is based in part on technology Microsoft acquired by buying Interix. SFU was removed from later versions of Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012. SFU is logically, though not formally, replaced by the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) in the Windows 10 Anniversary Update and Windows Server 2016 Version 1709 respectively. I agree that this was originally mostly for show since the customer base was very specific. That was a different time and place from now. I guess WSL started as an experiment to see how they could serve customers, was validated to some degree, and now they need to perfect it. A lot of related work on the Windows Console is now open source so I take that as a demonstration of how serious they are, but I don't expect it all to be open source. Maybe they'll surprise us.
- ranger207 7y agoNeither are running the system. When you install HyperV your Windows installation is virtualized, so both Windows and WSL are running as VMs.
- tw04 7y agoThey've moved away from that due to complaints about I/O performance. There was no way to "fix" it without the hyper-V shim. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/announcing-wsl-2/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/announcing-wsl-2/
- techntoke 7y agoWSL was a failed attempt by Microsoft, WSL2 will not be any better. Look at the problems it is causing for people already, and it isn't even GA yet.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- zerkten 7y agoVMware are doing some work to integrate with the Windows Hypervisor platform (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/api/hypervisor-platform/hypervisor-platform https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/api/hypervis...). IIRC they have a release coming early next year that will allow VMware Workstation and Hyper-V to coexist. I suspect other tools also need to support that if they want to run side-by-side with Hyper-V. EDIT: More info at https://blogs.vmware.com/workstation/2019/08/workstation-hyper-v-harmony.html https://blogs.vmware.com/workstation/2019/08/workstation-hyp... and https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Virtualization/VMware-Workstation-and-Hyper-V-Working-Together/ba-p/825831 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Virtualization/VMware....
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- solnyshok 7y agoWSL2 uses hypervisor in a way which makes Virtualbox (or any other VM manager) unusable.
- kerng 7y agoHyperV is different virtualization technologoy compared to Virtuakbox and most others. It actually virtualizes everything, whereas others typically are a level higher up. It seems both at the same time often doesn't work that well.
- tinus_hn 7y agoThe same happens with Device Guard/Credential Guard, it monopolizes the hypervisor.
- giancarlostoro 7y agoWSL is a Microsoft project, it's not the sole responsibility of Oracle to maintain a WSL alternative.
- resoluteteeth 7y agoI don't think the comment you are responding to means that Oracle should make something like WSL. It is probably saying that WSL2 requires hyper-v to be enabled which prevents Virtualbox from running, and it would be good if Oracle had a workaround for this.
- antonyh 7y agoThis. Vbox won’t run if Hyper-V is enabled, and Docker / WSL2 won’t work without Hyper-V. True for me on vbox 6.0.14, it just crashes the VM with a cryptic error. Workaround is not easy, hyper-v had a different feature set for networking and shared folders (not sure the latter is directly possible) as well as using different disk image formats.
- techntoke 7y agoWhy would Oracle fix Microsoft's bugs and crappy implementation?
- lmz 7y agoThat's _Intel's_ implementation - only one hypervisor may control Virtualization even on your beloved Linux e.g.: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/149416/run-avd-and-virtualbox-at-the-same-time https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/149416/run-avd-and-... or just search on how people can't run kvm and vbox at the same time.
- DHowett 7y agoThe release notes for 6.0 (the release prior to this one) contain: “Added support for using Hyper-V as the fallback execution core on Windows host, to avoid inability to run VMs at the price of reduced performance“ Is that the workaround you’re looking for? It seems like it comes at a cost, but workarounds often do.
- myalphabet 7y agoFWIW I was excited about this in 6.0 but never actually got it to work with Hyper-V. It may be a hardware issue on my side (my CPU is ~6 years old and doesn’t support some VM features) but I’ve also seen a lot of other people say that 6.0 changed nothing for them in regards to Hyper-V compatibility.
- wnevets 7y agoIts not just WSL2, its anything that makes use of hyper-v like docker for windows IIRC
- techntoke 7y agoHow about you just use Linux, and then you don't have to run it in a slowed down buggy hypervisor? Also, Docker then works too natively.
- techntoke 7y agoDownvote all you want. All you're going to get on Windows is inferior performance, tons of bugs and workarounds, and poor tooling.
- yoz-y 7y agoIf you work in software development you ought to know that "just use X" is often not an acceptable solution for many reasons. Quick example: maybe you develop a windows heavy client with a linux backend and want to test it locally. Then you have a choice to have either (relatively) poorly performing Windows VM or linux VM. As backend is usually way lighter and your IDE is probably Windows native too, you should run this on Windows.
- techntoke 7y agoWhy not just run inside KVM on Linux, and why use a bloated windows framework and toolkit? Qt is a great example of a cross-platform framework that doesn't require a lot of dependencies. However, you could also just build a PWA. If you're going to use bloated proprietary frameworks, why even use Linux at all?
- discreteevent 7y agoI think this is what the parent means by "just use X". You are saying to someone to change their whole development environment to Qt. (I like and have developed a commercial product in Qt)
- yoz-y 7y agoI hope this is sarcastic because it illustrates my point perfectly. Qt is a great cross platform framework but maybe you are not developing a cross platform application? Maybe you actually prefer native look and feel (I do for example). Maybe you are developing an app that must be published on the Windows store or work in Kiosk Mode (all of which require you to build on top of the native UI framework). > If you're going to use bloated proprietary frameworks, why even use Linux at all? You could as well rephrase your question as "Why not use the most appropriate tool for each part of the software?" Linux servers have the advantage of being supported by all major providers (including Microsoft), they scale well, have good security, have low footprint... Also as much as I dislike Windows I must say that their UI frameworks are not bloated and arguably work better than cross platform solutions. You mentioned PWA's which come with an enormous bagage (e.g.: they are throwing native look and feel completely out of the window).
- alexeiz 7y agoIf only Hyper-V didn't screw all other virtualization solutions.
- overcast 7y agoLooks like a lot of Graphics related upgrades/fixes. I desperately hope this makes the experience better, onto downloads!
- pdfbadforunicod 7y agoIt seems to me that Oracle is doing well in cloud, may not be too long before they beat the number 4 Google.
- garettmd 7y agoWhat does this have to do with Oracle Cloud?
- singlow 7y agoMany of the features relate to integration between VirtualBox and Oracle Cloud.
- eropple 7y agoI mean, this has little to do with the article, but it's also a bonkers claim. Doing well? Oracle Cloud is a literal punchline and has no argument for its existence, let alone its use, beyond "we're Oracle, now be a dear and lean back so we can get at your delicious throat bits". What would a bunch of extremely legacy technology--and this is a great example, between OS-supported virtualization in Windows and OS X getting good and virtualization solutions having already been just fine on Linux for a long time, VirtualBox hasn't had a meaningful reason to exist for going on five years now--and the worst reputation in the industry do to leapfrog Google Cloud? (If they're even actually "number 4" in the first place.)
- singlow 7y agoNot trying to defend the claim itself but it is related: From article: - Implemented support for importing a virtual machine from Oracle Cloud Infrastructure - Extended support for exporting a virtual machine to Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, allowing the creation of multiple virtual machines without re-uploading. Also added option to export a VM to the cloud using the more efficient variant "paravirtialized", and to specify free-form tags for cloud images
- eropple 7y ago
- resoluteteeth 7y agoIt might be better to steer clear of VirtualBox and other Oracle products because of the licensing issues: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/04/oracle_virtualbox_merula/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/04/oracle_virtualbox_m... If you only use the open source parts you're okay, but it's a bit scary.
- DoofusOfDeath 7y agoThis is my policy as well. My perception of Oracle is that they'll do very underhanded, even criminal, acts to extract money from entities who have at one time used their software. Happily, I have enough alternatives to VirtualBox to let me avoid that risk.
- yabadabadoes 7y agoI used to use virtualbox but I became afraid of being trolled by Oracle using gradually changing license terms a few years back and stopped updating. I'm curious if anyone knows of a table summarizing these products and what their licensing would mean for a laptop you may take to work, etc?
- grenoire 7y agoA framework I wanted to trial provided VB VMs instead of containers, definitely made me stop for a bit and think if I wanted to use VB (ended up using it anyway).
- rwmj 7y agoAs a (part time) qemu developer, why do you think VirtualBox is preferable, eg. what are the feature gaps that qemu doesn't provide, or what could qemu do better? (And by "qemu" I include the broader free ecosystem like virt-install, virt-manager, etc)
- mongol 7y agoI think part of it is that it is a complex ecosystem to understand. What is qemu, what is KVM, what is virt-manager, how does it all fit together. It is actually not hard to use but it is confusing to understand at first, what is used for what etc.
- bbmario 7y agoThis.
- LaLaLand122 7y agoEither you are into it, and you know, or the need to create a VM has just arose and you want to quickly do it. In the later case from my Fedora 31 system I search for "Vir"(tual), it tells me about "Boxes", I open it... and it can't be simpler. I end up with a Virtual machine with QEmu/KVM without ever having to know what QEmu/KVM is, as far as random user knows "yesterday I had problems with VirtualBox kernel modules, so I created a VM with Boxes".
- seddin 7y agoThe GUI, it is much more easier and faster to setup a VM.
- wazoox 7y agoVirt-manager is basically the same UI as VirtualBox with the same dead-easy, wizard-based VM setup. Plus the virt-manager running on my desktop can simultaneously drive KVM running locally and on many different servers.
- shantly 7y ago
- finchisko 7y agoWhat are the highlights of the new versions? Also >Linux host: Drop PCI passthrough, the current code is too incomplete (cannot handle PCIe devices at all), i.e. not useful enough does this affect usb drives and devices?
- josteink 7y agoOn Linux, I’ve entirely replaced Vbox with virt-manager and QEMU. As a bonus, virt-manager can connect to remote libvirt/QEMU instanced over SSH, making it easier to manage a small “farm”. On Windows I find myself happy enough with Hyper-V too. I really don’t miss virtualbox at all.
- lasftew 7y agoSecond that - Hyper-V is my preferred way to run a Linux dev machine on a Windows machine. Killer feature: dynamic memory (a VMs memory footprint grows and shrinks with its needs).
- jancsika 7y agoIs it allowed by Apple to set up a macOS version N virtualbox guest on macOS version N host? Because I'm trying and I can't imagine how their OS could be more hostile toward me doing it...
- Tsiklon 7y agoLast I checked (a year or so ago) virtualisation of Mac OS was acceptable to the licensing agreement, only on Apple hardware.
- plorkyeran 7y agoYou're now allowed to run up to two macOS guests in VMs as long as you're running on Apple hardware. It's pretty painless with VMWare Fusion.
- phonon 7y agoInteresting how the Windows download went from (VirtualBox 6.0.14) 163 MB to (6.1.0) 107 MB. Wonder why...
- comfydragon 7y agoIt could have something to do with this: Virtualization core: Drop recompiler, i.e. running VMs now needs a CPU supporting hardware virtualization
- headgasket 7y agoFEAT>> Nested virtualization on intel. This is a big deal, for dev and testing. Congrats to the devs, thank you. You can now run a hypervisor hosting real vms at decent speeds inside VB.