9 ms·

Netflix sends journalists on pricey trips

100 points by danso 7y ago

partingshots 7y ago
What should HN’s stance on paywalled sites be? It seems like at the very least, having an alternative link posted along with the main one that’s accessible to everyone would be a reasonable proposal.
- danso 7y ago
  This is an exclusive story. At the time of posting there was not an alternative link
- wpietri 7y ago
  I just opened it in a private window and it was fine, so it seems pretty accessible to me.
- eganist 7y ago
  That's the purpose of the web button - either to provide alternative links or to provide a google-filtered method to reach the page as a search referral, bypassing most paywalls.
- oefrha 7y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html > Are paywalls ok? > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic.
- chillwaves 7y ago
  https://outline.com/mdeq7H https://outline.com/mdeq7H
  - ShorsHammer 7y ago
    The best stance is one of defiance.
- chatmasta 7y ago
  This is a great extension: https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-firefox https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-firefox The same dev on GitHub has an equivalent for Chrome as well.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > What should HN’s stance on paywalled sites be? The stance and rule is that they're ok and you should not comment to complain about them. You're breaking it.
  - RHSeeger 7y ago
    > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. ---- > The stance and rule is that they're ok and you should not comment to complain about them. You're breaking it. No, it's not, it's only not to complain about them. The OP asked a question (which, admittedly, could have been answered with some searching, but regardless...) and then presented what they thought was a reasonable answer to the (not actually) unanswered question.
briga 7y ago
Oh those poor innocent Hollywood studios, it's so unfair when critics just get paid to endorse movies--at least it is when those movies are getting made by your competitor. Maybe if the big studios weren't so focused on pumping out sequel after sequel after remake after lowest common denominator designed-by-commitee movies they wouldn't have to worry about this. Netflix is simply making better movies, and if these studios want their awards they're going to have to compete for them.
- robbyt 7y ago
  Better movies? On Netflix? Are you sure?
  - afthonos 7y ago
    Well, a movie they made earned universal acclaim and the Academy Award for best picture last year, and they’re in good shape this year too, so…yes?
    - dplesca 7y ago
      Roma did not win the Oscar for best picture, but it did win other 3 oscars: Directing, Cinematography and Best Foreign Language Film.
    - paulintrognon 7y ago
      What is this movie please?
      - lkramer 7y ago
        Roma won a bunch of awards in 2019. In 2020 stuff like The Irishman, or maybe Dolemite is my Name could be in the running.
        fock 7y ago
        and still those movies would have been produced anyway, because they come with a nametag. maybe not with glorious sets and co, but with some direction. compare that to all the telenovela/80s-B-Movie-style crap, which makes up 80% of the content.
dawnerd 7y ago
This is kinda weird for WaPo to write about considering it's pretty common for many companies to send journalists and reviewers on fancy trips. They'll often hold product launches in places like Hawaii, or recently with Jumanji they had a press event in Mexico at a nice resort. Netflix's rivals all do the same exact thing. > The Washington Post’s policy is not to accept any material gifts from news sources or coverage subjects. But I bet they're more than willing to accept what is essentially a free vacation on company time.
- fock 7y ago
  but you know what: for Jeff Bezos it doesn't work out, so there has to be something wrong... Given that: I'm getting tired of Netflix's concept of producing a lot of crappy shows for regional markets - if I'd like to have that, I can go to my public broadcaster too for the mandatory fee I have to pay anyways... (and they also realized by now that they have to do something for non-retirees). For nice and "special" movies, buying a DVD is most often the only sensible option. Or some stream somewhere... (which are not good at special things either)
  - ramblerman 7y ago
    Beg to differ. Netflix has made some great local content, narcos, Dark, Casa de papel, The dutch civil war resistance miniseries, some great French comedies, and the list goes on. I think it's great to see stuff not all coming out of Hollywood.
    - jpgvm 7y ago
      They also just recently released their own Thai drama series and have done a number of Korean series and films also. I think it goes further than just creating solid content but fostering more investment and talent outside of Hollywood which I think is great.
    - C1sc0cat 7y ago
      That Dutch resistance one sounds interesting
hn_throw_4454 7y ago
Oh man, not the half of it. My wife won the Netflix PR account for our market for the agency she worked for. They moved into their office and built an elaborate viewing room — and their retainer came in at multiples of other high end clients. And yeah, constant trips for entertainment journos. One of the more aggressive and savvy companies when it comes to PR. In my experience that signals strong management.
askafriend 7y ago
So what. The journalists get to live a little - good.
eps 7y ago
This is getting tiresome. HN needs a policy to disallow completely paywalled links. That's akin posting a photo of a printed magazine cover and suggesting to discuss a terribly interesting article on page 17. It works only for a limited audience that comprises magazine subscribers and those willing to make a trip to the library, borrow from a friend, etc. That's counterproductive and exclusionary. It also doesn't age well.
- jwr 7y ago
  Yes, HN should take a stand here: all links should point to the open web. I realize that there is lots of interesting content that is not on the web, and that's fine. It's just that HN links should not point to it. We are losing the concept of the open web, and I thought HN would be the community that would understand the problem.
  - rootlocus 7y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21779375 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21779375
    - grenoire 7y ago
      Sure, that's great it's written down. Doesn't mean we have to agree to the rules. The complaints about paywalled articles are warranted, and we should take a stance about it whether the debate itself is viewed as off-topic or not. It's turned into a form of protest, at this point.
- simias 7y ago
  I can just select "free" and click through to get the article. Admittedly they say that you can only access "a limited number of articles every month" but I think that's a reasonable compromise because: - if like me you only stumble on the website through news aggregators like this one you probably won't have any issues to get to the article without paying, - if on the other hand you read enough articles to hit the hard paywall then clearly you get something out of this particular website and it's not unreasonable for them to ask for you to pay for it IMO. So I really think it's fine to post these types of articles on HN.
madisfun 7y ago
I saw a link "Netflix sends journalists on pricey trips". "Support great journalism," said the link I followed. (paywall)
- jlgaddis 7y ago
  Great journalism isn't free.
Grue3 7y ago
Sounds like sour grapes to me. How much Amazon Prime produced programming got nominated again?
- rangibaby 7y ago
  The Tick deserved to get nominated! (It got canceled)
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Having worked at a newspaper, it's fairly unlikely the WaPo's journalists feel brand loyalty to Amazon Prime.
- matt_the_bass 7y ago
  I’ve been consistently impressed with the quality of Amazon productions. Granted I don’t watch much tv or movies. So I can’t comment on the size of their library, maybe I’ve only watched the “good” ones and haven’t made it to the back catalogue.
garyclarke27 7y ago
I did wonder how two such mediocre long and boring films The Irishman & Marriage Story got such rave reviews. I’m annoyed with myself, having been swayed by the the critics, so wasting over 5 hours of my life - watching these in the vain hope that some excitement or entertainment would emerge - thoroughly disappointed.
- ipython 7y ago
  To each their own. I thoroughly enjoyed the Irishman.
- icebraining 7y ago
  Yet they also have pretty high audience reviews, unlike many other movies panned by the critics. (I haven't seen them, so I can't comment)
creaghpatr 7y ago
From what I can tell from reading the article, the established Hollywood studios are mad that Neflix upgraded the experience at their 'press junkets' which are a completely normal part of the promo cycle. Press junkets are notorious for being rapid-fire grinds that studios consider a necessary evil. I guess the case could be made that by making it a more pleasant experience (and also granting journalists paid set visits is mentioned?) could give them an advantage among critics/voters? Probably but that's the business, just like this WaPo article was probably pitched by a competitor PR firm.
Shivetya 7y ago
Are Critic Choice Awards comparable to Emmy awards? I always felt these were B or C tier awards. However I am not in this industry and could be completely out of touch. To me actions like what Netflix did are nothing more than another form of marketing. You either buy what they are selling or you don't.
- dmix 7y ago
  You'd also have to be a shitty movie reviewer to like one (of 61 films) films more because you got a free flight. And why would you put an industry professional in a shitty hotel when you fly them there? They should treat them with respect since they play a big role in the industry. This sounds like it helps critics covering films be industry insiders with closer access to the filmmakers/actors which makes for more interesting content which they wouldn't have otherwise. Which helps them with the critiquing when it goes wrong or right. Ensuring high quality coverage (or any coverage) for an event featuring != ensuring positive reviews
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
WhyNotHugo 7y ago
I'm really grab Netflix is disrupting the market like this. Some things (like Theatre's monopoly over new titles) are absurd and need to stop. Wanna watch a new movie? Waiting for months or theatres are the only options. I'll be very happy the day this changes for all new titles.
dangerboysteve 7y ago
This is/was a common practice with movie studios promoting new films and flying reporters to screening.

100 points by danso 7y ago

What should HN’s stance on paywalled sites be? It seems like at the very least, having an alternative link posted along with the main one that’s accessible to everyone would be a reasonable proposal.

danso 7y ago
This is an exclusive story. At the time of posting there was not an alternative link
wpietri 7y ago
I just opened it in a private window and it was fine, so it seems pretty accessible to me.
eganist 7y ago
That's the purpose of the web button - either to provide alternative links or to provide a google-filtered method to reach the page as a search referral, bypassing most paywalls.
oefrha 7y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html > Are paywalls ok? > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic.
chillwaves 7y ago
https://outline.com/mdeq7H https://outline.com/mdeq7H
- ShorsHammer 7y ago
  The best stance is one of defiance.
chatmasta 7y ago
This is a great extension: https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-firefox https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-firefox The same dev on GitHub has an equivalent for Chrome as well.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> What should HN’s stance on paywalled sites be? The stance and rule is that they're ok and you should not comment to complain about them. You're breaking it.
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. ---- > The stance and rule is that they're ok and you should not comment to complain about them. You're breaking it. No, it's not, it's only not to complain about them. The OP asked a question (which, admittedly, could have been answered with some searching, but regardless...) and then presented what they thought was a reasonable answer to the (not actually) unanswered question.

briga 7y ago

Oh those poor innocent Hollywood studios, it's so unfair when critics just get paid to endorse movies--at least it is when those movies are getting made by your competitor. Maybe if the big studios weren't so focused on pumping out sequel after sequel after remake after lowest common denominator designed-by-commitee movies they wouldn't have to worry about this. Netflix is simply making better movies, and if these studios want their awards they're going to have to compete for them.

robbyt 7y ago
Better movies? On Netflix? Are you sure?
- afthonos 7y ago
  Well, a movie they made earned universal acclaim and the Academy Award for best picture last year, and they’re in good shape this year too, so…yes?
  - dplesca 7y ago
    Roma did not win the Oscar for best picture, but it did win other 3 oscars: Directing, Cinematography and Best Foreign Language Film.
  - paulintrognon 7y ago
    What is this movie please?
    - lkramer 7y ago
      Roma won a bunch of awards in 2019. In 2020 stuff like The Irishman, or maybe Dolemite is my Name could be in the running.
      - fock 7y ago
        and still those movies would have been produced anyway, because they come with a nametag. maybe not with glorious sets and co, but with some direction. compare that to all the telenovela/80s-B-Movie-style crap, which makes up 80% of the content.

dawnerd 7y ago

This is kinda weird for WaPo to write about considering it's pretty common for many companies to send journalists and reviewers on fancy trips. They'll often hold product launches in places like Hawaii, or recently with Jumanji they had a press event in Mexico at a nice resort. Netflix's rivals all do the same exact thing. > The Washington Post’s policy is not to accept any material gifts from news sources or coverage subjects. But I bet they're more than willing to accept what is essentially a free vacation on company time.

fock 7y ago
but you know what: for Jeff Bezos it doesn't work out, so there has to be something wrong... Given that: I'm getting tired of Netflix's concept of producing a lot of crappy shows for regional markets - if I'd like to have that, I can go to my public broadcaster too for the mandatory fee I have to pay anyways... (and they also realized by now that they have to do something for non-retirees). For nice and "special" movies, buying a DVD is most often the only sensible option. Or some stream somewhere... (which are not good at special things either)
- ramblerman 7y ago
  Beg to differ. Netflix has made some great local content, narcos, Dark, Casa de papel, The dutch civil war resistance miniseries, some great French comedies, and the list goes on. I think it's great to see stuff not all coming out of Hollywood.
  - jpgvm 7y ago
    They also just recently released their own Thai drama series and have done a number of Korean series and films also. I think it goes further than just creating solid content but fostering more investment and talent outside of Hollywood which I think is great.
  - C1sc0cat 7y ago
    That Dutch resistance one sounds interesting

hn_throw_4454 7y ago

Oh man, not the half of it. My wife won the Netflix PR account for our market for the agency she worked for. They moved into their office and built an elaborate viewing room — and their retainer came in at multiples of other high end clients. And yeah, constant trips for entertainment journos. One of the more aggressive and savvy companies when it comes to PR. In my experience that signals strong management.

askafriend 7y ago

So what. The journalists get to live a little - good.

eps 7y ago

This is getting tiresome. HN needs a policy to disallow completely paywalled links. That's akin posting a photo of a printed magazine cover and suggesting to discuss a terribly interesting article on page 17. It works only for a limited audience that comprises magazine subscribers and those willing to make a trip to the library, borrow from a friend, etc. That's counterproductive and exclusionary. It also doesn't age well.

jwr 7y ago
Yes, HN should take a stand here: all links should point to the open web. I realize that there is lots of interesting content that is not on the web, and that's fine. It's just that HN links should not point to it. We are losing the concept of the open web, and I thought HN would be the community that would understand the problem.
- rootlocus 7y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21779375 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21779375
  - grenoire 7y ago
    Sure, that's great it's written down. Doesn't mean we have to agree to the rules. The complaints about paywalled articles are warranted, and we should take a stance about it whether the debate itself is viewed as off-topic or not. It's turned into a form of protest, at this point.
simias 7y ago
I can just select "free" and click through to get the article. Admittedly they say that you can only access "a limited number of articles every month" but I think that's a reasonable compromise because: - if like me you only stumble on the website through news aggregators like this one you probably won't have any issues to get to the article without paying, - if on the other hand you read enough articles to hit the hard paywall then clearly you get something out of this particular website and it's not unreasonable for them to ask for you to pay for it IMO. So I really think it's fine to post these types of articles on HN.

madisfun 7y ago

I saw a link "Netflix sends journalists on pricey trips". "Support great journalism," said the link I followed. (paywall)

jlgaddis 7y ago
Great journalism isn't free.

Grue3 7y ago

Sounds like sour grapes to me. How much Amazon Prime produced programming got nominated again?

rangibaby 7y ago
The Tick deserved to get nominated! (It got canceled)
ceejayoz 7y ago
Having worked at a newspaper, it's fairly unlikely the WaPo's journalists feel brand loyalty to Amazon Prime.
matt_the_bass 7y ago
I’ve been consistently impressed with the quality of Amazon productions. Granted I don’t watch much tv or movies. So I can’t comment on the size of their library, maybe I’ve only watched the “good” ones and haven’t made it to the back catalogue.

garyclarke27 7y ago

I did wonder how two such mediocre long and boring films The Irishman & Marriage Story got such rave reviews. I’m annoyed with myself, having been swayed by the the critics, so wasting over 5 hours of my life - watching these in the vain hope that some excitement or entertainment would emerge - thoroughly disappointed.

ipython 7y ago
To each their own. I thoroughly enjoyed the Irishman.
icebraining 7y ago
Yet they also have pretty high audience reviews, unlike many other movies panned by the critics. (I haven't seen them, so I can't comment)

creaghpatr 7y ago

From what I can tell from reading the article, the established Hollywood studios are mad that Neflix upgraded the experience at their 'press junkets' which are a completely normal part of the promo cycle. Press junkets are notorious for being rapid-fire grinds that studios consider a necessary evil. I guess the case could be made that by making it a more pleasant experience (and also granting journalists paid set visits is mentioned?) could give them an advantage among critics/voters? Probably but that's the business, just like this WaPo article was probably pitched by a competitor PR firm.

Shivetya 7y ago

Are Critic Choice Awards comparable to Emmy awards? I always felt these were B or C tier awards. However I am not in this industry and could be completely out of touch. To me actions like what Netflix did are nothing more than another form of marketing. You either buy what they are selling or you don't.

dmix 7y ago
You'd also have to be a shitty movie reviewer to like one (of 61 films) films more because you got a free flight. And why would you put an industry professional in a shitty hotel when you fly them there? They should treat them with respect since they play a big role in the industry. This sounds like it helps critics covering films be industry insiders with closer access to the filmmakers/actors which makes for more interesting content which they wouldn't have otherwise. Which helps them with the critiquing when it goes wrong or right. Ensuring high quality coverage (or any coverage) for an event featuring != ensuring positive reviews

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

WhyNotHugo 7y ago

I'm really grab Netflix is disrupting the market like this. Some things (like Theatre's monopoly over new titles) are absurd and need to stop. Wanna watch a new movie? Waiting for months or theatres are the only options. I'll be very happy the day this changes for all new titles.

dangerboysteve 7y ago

This is/was a common practice with movie studios promoting new films and flying reporters to screening.