6 ms·

9.5 rules of doing business in Russia 1. Keep your servers abroad. 2. Register your domains abroad. 3. Register your company abroad. 4. Keep your money abro

9.5 rules of doing business in Russia 1. Keep your servers abroad. 2. Register your domains abroad. 3. Register your company abroad. 4. Keep your money abroad and don't put all eggs in one basket. 5. Seriously, don't put all your eggs in one basket! 6. Keep your database abroad. 7. Document everything regarding your office setup. 8. Split the risks and assets. 9. You can give youself up voluntarily. Find a large patron or manage law enforcement protection yourself. 10. Leave the country.

f311a 7y ago
That could happen in any country. That's a corporate dispute. Rambler sold their NGINX "copyright rights" to a shady law firm (Lynwood Investments CY Ltd).
- adamsea 7y ago
  Perhaps not as often or quite so capriciously
- Craighead 7y ago
  Any country that has SORM laws passed.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  Perhaps. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky
- iavael 7y ago
  That's not a corporate displute. It's probable cause in criminal law. Ngnix founders are already detained btw.
  - chupasaurus 7y ago
    They are currently being interrogated, not detained.
    - blackearl 7y ago
      If you can't walk away from an interrogation, you've been detained.
      - chupasaurus 7y ago
        Maximum continuous time for an interrogation in Russia - 4 hours, after which there should be a pause of at least an hour. Maximum total time is 8 hours within a single day. Maximum time for a detention is 48 hours until the court's decision. The difference is how much time one would have to actively prepare his defence themselves, not via advocates.
        iaml 7y ago
        You could use those 'rules' instead of toilet paper - not even half a year ago a ton of people were detained longer and without proper accommodations like food, water and place to sleep. Nothing happened afterwards, maybe in a couple years un human rights council will make government give those people some money, but that's it.
        ordu 7y ago
        It works like this: you detain a person for 48 hours, then release him and when he is at the exit, detain him once more. Repeat as needed. Probably you would need to find another formal reason for a detainment (I'm not sure though), but seems it is not very difficult. They did something like just this summer, when protests was going against infringements with voting.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - iavael 7y ago
      There was police raid in the office. After that founders were captured and brought to interrogation. If it's not "detained" then I don't know what any other meaning this word may have.
      - 7y ago
- xnyan 7y ago
  Anything can happen anywhere, but it's the height of naivety to call the general international risk of this of this (government takeover of your shit) happening anywhere vs Russia comparable. It's way more likely to happen in russia and anyone who's worked there can tell you that.
seibelj 7y ago
Not a bad idea for any company in any country, the way laws surrounding tech are going.
- privateprofile 7y ago
  Not sure if your comment is trolling or just due to ignorance, but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky
  - seibelj 7y ago
    Not trolling... if they outlaw encryption, as most governments want to do, it will require creative org structures.
    - fit2rule 7y ago
      Australian checking in - and I'm not trolling either: I can just as easily read that 10-point list off for Australia.
      - privateprofile 7y ago
        Which companies were taken over illegally by organized groups in Australia? Because the OP's list was likely referring to a very different reality than what you imagine: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/24/russia.internationalcrime https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/24/russia.interna...
        justinclift 7y ago
        > Which companies were taken over illegally by organized groups in Australia? That kind of stuff does happen in Australia too, it's not just widely known or reported on. A good friend - (now-ex) business owner - several years ago had her company taken from her at gun point. With nothing to be done about it ("or else") by people who the police won't fk with.
andrewshadura 7y ago
0. Don’t do business in Russia
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
baybal2 7y ago
11. Have a battalion of armed bodyguards? A little bit on that Alexander Mamut guy: http://rumafia.net/en/dosje/12 http://rumafia.net/en/dosje/12 . One of the "7 banker" group. He is the one who racketeered Euroset into selling itself at 990% discount. Evroset was the largest retail network in Russia, built from scratch buy a man with a lot of talent, but no mafia connections. Alexander Chichvarkin was pretty much the most renowned businessman of his generation in Russia. Chichvarkin fled to UK, and left a director to be his proxy. They used the same tactic — director detained, and offered a trade at gunpoint. The director however managed to escape the capture too. In this case, after his bodyguards made a scuffle with police in his office.
- jakovleff 7y ago
  Chichvarkin is Evgeny, not Alexander.
smsm42 7y ago
I think the last one pretty much covers it.
sschueller 7y ago
I would use the same approach for setting up a business in the US. Additionally I would require some huge insurance to protect myself from frivolous lawsuits. As an outside business you want no servers in the US or use US dollars in any form as you may end up being sanctioned or worse extradited for things that are not illegal in your country.
- adventured 7y ago
  > as you may end up being sanctioned or worse extradited for things that are not illegal in your country You're of course conflating problems that are very common in Russia (hyper corruption, few human rights, zero business law protection, no functioning independent judicial system) with problems (the need for huge insurance, extradition, getting sanctioned) that are rare in the monster size $22 trillion US economy filled with millions of businesses. List of countries currently meaningfully sanctioned by the US: Russia, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria I certainly hope you don't live in North Korea while commenting freely on Hacker News (which is, naturally, located in the US).

f311a 7y ago

That could happen in any country. That's a corporate dispute. Rambler sold their NGINX "copyright rights" to a shady law firm (Lynwood Investments CY Ltd).

adamsea 7y ago
Perhaps not as often or quite so capriciously
Craighead 7y ago
Any country that has SORM laws passed.
Spooky23 7y ago
Perhaps. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky
iavael 7y ago
That's not a corporate displute. It's probable cause in criminal law. Ngnix founders are already detained btw.
- chupasaurus 7y ago
  They are currently being interrogated, not detained.
  - blackearl 7y ago
    If you can't walk away from an interrogation, you've been detained.
    - chupasaurus 7y ago
      Maximum continuous time for an interrogation in Russia - 4 hours, after which there should be a pause of at least an hour. Maximum total time is 8 hours within a single day. Maximum time for a detention is 48 hours until the court's decision. The difference is how much time one would have to actively prepare his defence themselves, not via advocates.
      - iaml 7y ago
        You could use those 'rules' instead of toilet paper - not even half a year ago a ton of people were detained longer and without proper accommodations like food, water and place to sleep. Nothing happened afterwards, maybe in a couple years un human rights council will make government give those people some money, but that's it.
      - ordu 7y ago
        It works like this: you detain a person for 48 hours, then release him and when he is at the exit, detain him once more. Repeat as needed. Probably you would need to find another formal reason for a detainment (I'm not sure though), but seems it is not very difficult. They did something like just this summer, when protests was going against infringements with voting.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - iavael 7y ago
    There was police raid in the office. After that founders were captured and brought to interrogation. If it's not "detained" then I don't know what any other meaning this word may have.
    - 7y ago
xnyan 7y ago
Anything can happen anywhere, but it's the height of naivety to call the general international risk of this of this (government takeover of your shit) happening anywhere vs Russia comparable. It's way more likely to happen in russia and anyone who's worked there can tell you that.

seibelj 7y ago

Not a bad idea for any company in any country, the way laws surrounding tech are going.

privateprofile 7y ago
Not sure if your comment is trolling or just due to ignorance, but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky
- seibelj 7y ago
  Not trolling... if they outlaw encryption, as most governments want to do, it will require creative org structures.
  - fit2rule 7y ago
    Australian checking in - and I'm not trolling either: I can just as easily read that 10-point list off for Australia.
    - privateprofile 7y ago
      Which companies were taken over illegally by organized groups in Australia? Because the OP's list was likely referring to a very different reality than what you imagine: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/24/russia.internationalcrime https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/24/russia.interna...
      - justinclift 7y ago
        > Which companies were taken over illegally by organized groups in Australia? That kind of stuff does happen in Australia too, it's not just widely known or reported on. A good friend - (now-ex) business owner - several years ago had her company taken from her at gun point. With nothing to be done about it ("or else") by people who the police won't fk with.

andrewshadura 7y ago

0. Don’t do business in Russia

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

baybal2 7y ago

11. Have a battalion of armed bodyguards? A little bit on that Alexander Mamut guy: http://rumafia.net/en/dosje/12 http://rumafia.net/en/dosje/12 . One of the "7 banker" group. He is the one who racketeered Euroset into selling itself at 990% discount. Evroset was the largest retail network in Russia, built from scratch buy a man with a lot of talent, but no mafia connections. Alexander Chichvarkin was pretty much the most renowned businessman of his generation in Russia. Chichvarkin fled to UK, and left a director to be his proxy. They used the same tactic — director detained, and offered a trade at gunpoint. The director however managed to escape the capture too. In this case, after his bodyguards made a scuffle with police in his office.

jakovleff 7y ago
Chichvarkin is Evgeny, not Alexander.

smsm42 7y ago

I think the last one pretty much covers it.

sschueller 7y ago

I would use the same approach for setting up a business in the US. Additionally I would require some huge insurance to protect myself from frivolous lawsuits. As an outside business you want no servers in the US or use US dollars in any form as you may end up being sanctioned or worse extradited for things that are not illegal in your country.

adventured 7y ago
> as you may end up being sanctioned or worse extradited for things that are not illegal in your country You're of course conflating problems that are very common in Russia (hyper corruption, few human rights, zero business law protection, no functioning independent judicial system) with problems (the need for huge insurance, extradition, getting sanctioned) that are rare in the monster size $22 trillion US economy filled with millions of businesses. List of countries currently meaningfully sanctioned by the US: Russia, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria I certainly hope you don't live in North Korea while commenting freely on Hacker News (which is, naturally, located in the US).