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I've switched to fastmail, and am staying with it. However, almost every aspect of it is objectively worse than Gmail; browser UX more awkward, Android email c

by zzzeek 7y ago

I've switched to fastmail, and am staying with it. However, almost every aspect of it is objectively worse than Gmail; browser UX more awkward, Android email clients besides Google mail are awful and Google mail itself has very broken behaviors with it, spam filtering is poor, i had to give up things like nice calendar and address book integrations, etc. However, as i pay Google for many other services, that means I am vulnerable to total and permanent account lock out if someone steals my credit card and gets it flagged by Google as fraudulent, as has been reported by more than one blog post. As long as Google does not address the issue of customer service being within their top 25 list of priorities, it is insane for anyone to use Gmail for important mail identities.

thsowers 7y ago
For me, after switching to fastmail my load time in browser went from around 30 seconds with the "new" gmail to under 5 with fastmail. Using HTML view on gmail the speed is more comparable
officeplant 7y ago
>Android email clients besides Google mail are awful I still use K-9 Mail to handle my non-gmail accounts. I find it very usable with how it threads my work emails. Although from what I understand its not actively developed anymore and the last post I see on the playstore says Sept 2018. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has them, especially if they are available via F-Droid.
- jdofaz 7y ago
  Looks alive to me https://github.com/k9mail/k-9/releases https://github.com/k9mail/k-9/releases , F-Droid has the most recent pre-release from last week.
  - tecleandor 7y ago
    Releases were stalled for a long while, and then, past week, released a really big update, both technical and cosmetic.
  - officeplant 7y ago
    Ah sweet, thanks for the correction.
- OldGuyInTheClub 7y ago
  I'm using BlueMail and like it quite a bit. Easy to setup and attractive UI.
roelschroeven 7y ago
Have you tried Fastmail's own app? Seems pretty decent to me (though I don't use it that much: I don't often read/write mail on my smartphone).
- supercommand 7y ago
  You mean the horrific skinned version of their website that has no offline capabilities? That’s hardly an app. I love fastmail and have been a happy paying customer for years. But that’s their biggest pitfall.
ProAm 7y ago
Have you reached out to Fastmail about the things you don't like? I use them and like the UI, but anytime Ive had an issue and have contacted their support I got a quick response from a human. They love their product and making it better so I think constructive criticism is welcomed there.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- zzzeek 7y ago
  their UX is still really really good, compared to every other web UX I've ever used.....except for google's. I'm not sure how much better it can get unless they had google-amounts of resources to put into it. There are few fundamental assumptions in the gmail UX that make certain things possible that couldn't work in Fastmail's design, like being able to read messages while I'm selecting them, expanding / contracting threads at once, having drafts inline with the thread that I can leave and return to seamlessly, all using keyboard controls. I have a very specific email reading style and I also have to deal with folders that have hundreds of new messages daily.
  - nmjenkins 7y ago
    > being able to read messages while I'm selecting them You can do this in Fastmail (presuming you don't have the reading pane turned on, i.e. are in the same layout as Gmail). > expanding / contracting threads at once Shift-click a message header to apply to all at once, or "Shift-E" kb shortcut to expand all. > having drafts inline with the thread that I can leave and return to seamlessly We take a slightly different approach, but using Cmd-Shift-S will toggle you instantly between your draft and the thread you are replying to, preserving your scroll position in both.
    - zzzeek 7y ago
      > You can do this in Fastmail (presuming you don't have the reading pane turned on, i.e. are in the same layout as Gmail). EDIT: this message alerted me to the fact that there is a "hide reading pane" option so I am experimenting with that to see if this solves my problem. Also it would be SUPER helpful if the arrow keys would navigate through the message list like gmail does, J/K continues to be less comfortable for me. If I check one of the messages/threads in the messages pane, such that I'm selecting it for being marked as read or deletion or something like that, in the right hand "read" pane, the message/thread on the right side turns into a single bar that is unreadable. in gmail I can select as many messages as I want and move back and forth between the "messages" and "Read thread" panes, using the enter key to read, semicolon to expand thread, and "u" to return to the message list, and the selections remain. I have not been able to identify any similar flow in Fastmail; it forces me to deal with only one thread at a time, and I cannot read a message/thread that is also selected; clicking on it deselects it. So I can't select a series of messages and also read them, it would take a rethink of Fastmail's UX architecture for it to be possible. > Shift-click a message header to apply to all at once, or "Shift-E" kb shortcut to expand all. OK, Gmail's semicolon / colon toggle is much easier to use and also includes collapsing the thread also can this be added? > We take a slightly different approach, but using Cmd-Shift-S will toggle you instantly between your draft and the thread you are replying to, preserving your scroll position in both. OK, that is definitely more awkward. in gmail I can just scroll up to read the other messages in the thread, which is important because I often have to go back and read messages I'm responding towards. In fastmail, this would mean the "edit draft" button would give me an inline composition window that scrolls with the thread. This could be added to Fastmail with a lot of work but the UX at least does not prohibit this from being graphically feasible.
vinniejames 7y ago
How does fastmail compare to protonmail, regarding encryption and data privacy?
- krageon 7y ago
  Given that Fastmail is Australian, it is fundamentally untrustworthy in much the same way any US company is. Of course, Protonmail is pretty untrustworthy also. Most of that is down to them making claims that are patently untrue (the encryption keys are stored serverside, so their encryption is not better than symmetrical for one), but some of it is also just because they are not in a country with strong privacy guarantees (for that I tend to look at Scandinavia or Germany).
- jammygit 7y ago
  ProtonMail is better for privacy, and I think fastmail could read your emails if they wanted to - even if they don’t want to after the Australian data access laws. However, the fastmail privacy policy is quite good (I emailed them about it once), they come with calendar, and their system works really well. Fastmail is nice for imap too, ProtonMail requires extra software for it. Fastmail also gives you a free website via their hosted files features If ProtonMail did a calendar though I would be using ProtonMail right now
labawi 7y ago
Personally, I don't usually use the broswer UI, but I like it much more than Gmail - simple, easy to navigate, does what I need. Though I mostly go there only for settings and it's always been easy. I use IMAP and SMTP, and it just works. I can move and delete mail. No weird All mail folder, semi-automatic weird Trash, resurrecting messages and duplicates that are annoying to get rid of. Overall, I hope they don't add complicated gimmicks or weird behaviours like gmail.

by zzzeek 7y ago

thsowers 7y ago

For me, after switching to fastmail my load time in browser went from around 30 seconds with the "new" gmail to under 5 with fastmail. Using HTML view on gmail the speed is more comparable

officeplant 7y ago

>Android email clients besides Google mail are awful I still use K-9 Mail to handle my non-gmail accounts. I find it very usable with how it threads my work emails. Although from what I understand its not actively developed anymore and the last post I see on the playstore says Sept 2018. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has them, especially if they are available via F-Droid.

jdofaz 7y ago
Looks alive to me https://github.com/k9mail/k-9/releases https://github.com/k9mail/k-9/releases , F-Droid has the most recent pre-release from last week.
- tecleandor 7y ago
  Releases were stalled for a long while, and then, past week, released a really big update, both technical and cosmetic.
- officeplant 7y ago
  Ah sweet, thanks for the correction.
OldGuyInTheClub 7y ago
I'm using BlueMail and like it quite a bit. Easy to setup and attractive UI.

roelschroeven 7y ago

Have you tried Fastmail's own app? Seems pretty decent to me (though I don't use it that much: I don't often read/write mail on my smartphone).

supercommand 7y ago
You mean the horrific skinned version of their website that has no offline capabilities? That’s hardly an app. I love fastmail and have been a happy paying customer for years. But that’s their biggest pitfall.

ProAm 7y ago

Have you reached out to Fastmail about the things you don't like? I use them and like the UI, but anytime Ive had an issue and have contacted their support I got a quick response from a human. They love their product and making it better so I think constructive criticism is welcomed there.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
zzzeek 7y ago
their UX is still really really good, compared to every other web UX I've ever used.....except for google's. I'm not sure how much better it can get unless they had google-amounts of resources to put into it. There are few fundamental assumptions in the gmail UX that make certain things possible that couldn't work in Fastmail's design, like being able to read messages while I'm selecting them, expanding / contracting threads at once, having drafts inline with the thread that I can leave and return to seamlessly, all using keyboard controls. I have a very specific email reading style and I also have to deal with folders that have hundreds of new messages daily.
- nmjenkins 7y ago
  > being able to read messages while I'm selecting them You can do this in Fastmail (presuming you don't have the reading pane turned on, i.e. are in the same layout as Gmail). > expanding / contracting threads at once Shift-click a message header to apply to all at once, or "Shift-E" kb shortcut to expand all. > having drafts inline with the thread that I can leave and return to seamlessly We take a slightly different approach, but using Cmd-Shift-S will toggle you instantly between your draft and the thread you are replying to, preserving your scroll position in both.
  - zzzeek 7y ago
    > You can do this in Fastmail (presuming you don't have the reading pane turned on, i.e. are in the same layout as Gmail). EDIT: this message alerted me to the fact that there is a "hide reading pane" option so I am experimenting with that to see if this solves my problem. Also it would be SUPER helpful if the arrow keys would navigate through the message list like gmail does, J/K continues to be less comfortable for me. If I check one of the messages/threads in the messages pane, such that I'm selecting it for being marked as read or deletion or something like that, in the right hand "read" pane, the message/thread on the right side turns into a single bar that is unreadable. in gmail I can select as many messages as I want and move back and forth between the "messages" and "Read thread" panes, using the enter key to read, semicolon to expand thread, and "u" to return to the message list, and the selections remain. I have not been able to identify any similar flow in Fastmail; it forces me to deal with only one thread at a time, and I cannot read a message/thread that is also selected; clicking on it deselects it. So I can't select a series of messages and also read them, it would take a rethink of Fastmail's UX architecture for it to be possible. > Shift-click a message header to apply to all at once, or "Shift-E" kb shortcut to expand all. OK, Gmail's semicolon / colon toggle is much easier to use and also includes collapsing the thread also can this be added? > We take a slightly different approach, but using Cmd-Shift-S will toggle you instantly between your draft and the thread you are replying to, preserving your scroll position in both. OK, that is definitely more awkward. in gmail I can just scroll up to read the other messages in the thread, which is important because I often have to go back and read messages I'm responding towards. In fastmail, this would mean the "edit draft" button would give me an inline composition window that scrolls with the thread. This could be added to Fastmail with a lot of work but the UX at least does not prohibit this from being graphically feasible.

vinniejames 7y ago

How does fastmail compare to protonmail, regarding encryption and data privacy?

krageon 7y ago
Given that Fastmail is Australian, it is fundamentally untrustworthy in much the same way any US company is. Of course, Protonmail is pretty untrustworthy also. Most of that is down to them making claims that are patently untrue (the encryption keys are stored serverside, so their encryption is not better than symmetrical for one), but some of it is also just because they are not in a country with strong privacy guarantees (for that I tend to look at Scandinavia or Germany).
jammygit 7y ago
ProtonMail is better for privacy, and I think fastmail could read your emails if they wanted to - even if they don’t want to after the Australian data access laws. However, the fastmail privacy policy is quite good (I emailed them about it once), they come with calendar, and their system works really well. Fastmail is nice for imap too, ProtonMail requires extra software for it. Fastmail also gives you a free website via their hosted files features If ProtonMail did a calendar though I would be using ProtonMail right now

labawi 7y ago

Personally, I don't usually use the broswer UI, but I like it much more than Gmail - simple, easy to navigate, does what I need. Though I mostly go there only for settings and it's always been easy. I use IMAP and SMTP, and it just works. I can move and delete mail. No weird All mail folder, semi-automatic weird Trash, resurrecting messages and duplicates that are annoying to get rid of. Overall, I hope they don't add complicated gimmicks or weird behaviours like gmail.